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Originally Posted by oscar0308
i never said that each member failed at the same moment.. but it is quite plausible that the structure as a whole failed built upon the momentary failures of each individual structural unit. upon the complete failure of the originally damaged floor, it could have collaped creating that domino effect where each successive floor just collapsed upon itself.
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First off, I want to thank you for having an open mind about this.
As far as each member failing at the same time, I was referring to several videos of the actual collapse. There were puff lines that started as the top floor collapsed on the second to the top floor and so on. These occour as an entire floor gives and the trapped air between the floors gets forced out via the windows. That, in and of itself, means that the floors fell all at once. The originally damaged floor was not the first floor to give. The top floor's supports suddenly failed all at once. Then a cascade effect brought each successing floor down. There was no cave in of the original holes created by the initial plane crash. Theose floors that were hit gave in the same way as the floors above it, with the exception of the other tower's top sliding off and to the side.
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Originally Posted by oscar0308
in regards to the molten pools of steel. i have not read that nor am i refuting it. i am addressing the issue of whether 1,000* heat could create a structure failure in steel that has a melting point that far exceeds that temperature. i recall that i did read that there was disbelief that this was possible. my point is that it is very possible and very likely.
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I do suggest that anyone intersted get a hold of the FEMA report, it's really interesting. It is possible that the heat from the airline fuel could have started to weaken the steel to some degree, but it is unlikely that said fire could have collapsed the top floor so completly.
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Originally Posted by oscar0308
also to address the notion about the exterior skin not warping. first, i dont believe that i have ever seen a close up of that skin. the views i have seen are very distant video shots or vid captures. true details are not clear being distorted by unclear footage and by distance so there might have been some warping but it was jut not visible using our sources. another factor might have been its exposure. the interior structural members had no way to disapate heat. the exterior members had a constant fresh supply of september air funneling the escaping heat of the building. the exterior steel or aluminum would not warp until the air around it had reached its deflection degree. a good example of this would be to boil water in a paper cup. place a paper cup directly into a flame, which far exceeds the burning point of paper, and you will see that the paper does not burn until the resevoir of water has boiled off. the water disperses the heat even throughout the unit til it reaches 212* whereupon the temperature of anything in contact with it, i.e. the paper cup, will not exceed that.
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http://hereisnewyork.org/jpegs/photos/5088.jpg is a good picture of the impact point. This is a pic from the FEMA report. The problem is that the outer supports gave supposedly due to the heat, but if it was hot enough to cause the steel to give way, it should have done a number on the aluminum.
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Originally Posted by oscar0308
did you have any thoughts on the 'ghost plane' ideas?
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You're referring to the 757 hitting the Pentagon, yes? If so, I have even more long-ass rambling posts on this threads sister thread, 'the mystery of the dissapearing 757'. I apologize ahead of time for more ramblings...I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around this.