Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - What If? Internet had existed during lead-up to Third Reich.

meepa · 10-09-2004, 10:44 AM

I don't think you're taking into account that the consolidation of power for the Nazis in Germany was a lot more than just a propaganda-fest. There is a HUGE list of reasons why the Weimar Republic went down and the Nazis came to power including (without further elaboration because nobody wants to read an essay):

Inflation/ paying for the costs of war (WWI) & demobilization

French occupation of important industrial areas due to German failure to pay reparations

High unemployment

Polarization of the potlical "left", ie between the communists and social democrats (I can't stress this enough because it was essentially this that opened the door for right-wing, authoritarian groups to gain a lot of ground)

I just wanted to pick some of the biggest issues that came to mind, but it was these thing among others that really made the Weimar Republic prone to collapse. There were just too many problems, all contributing to what Peukert termed the "Crisis of Classical Modernity".*** The average Hans in Germany was getting sick and tired of the chaotic times of the Republic and without a unified Left, there was a general longing for "the good old days" (ie Bismark) of an authoritarian goverment that could just get shit done.

Now the shift to the right was not immedietly, "Hey, lets all join a Jew-hating party that wants to take over the world!" It is crucial to recognize that 1) anti-semitism was strong in Germany (as in the rest of Europe) prior to Nazism... hating Jews was NOTHING new. The only new thing Nazis brought to it (and this was much later in WWII) was the mass executions of them.

Germany was on the path to a Rightist totalitarian regime anyway even before the Nazis were a serious contending party. The last presidents of the Republic were very right-wing figures who didn't really have faith in the system anymore anyway: this really shows that popular opinion for Weimar was failing.

The fact that the Nazi part was the ultimate inheritor (or thief) of German politics lies in a complicated story of both the evolution of the Nazi party (from something actually being sorta socialist to not at all) and the super charisma of Hitler and his propaganda machine.

So I guess all of this was hastily slapped-together background for me to say that even if the internet was there, it may not have changed much because the Nazi party was giving Germans results (ie revitalizing the economy, etc). They wouldn't give too big a shit about all the anti-semitism concerns because a lot of them already didn't like Jews anyway (hooray for scape goats). Maybe some people would have been worried if they had known the revitalization of the economy was unsustainable and could only be paid off by a looting-war of Europe (hence WWII), but that would have probably been interpereted as Leftis conspiracy theories as everyone was happy as hell to be choking down sausage and having some national pride again.

***For more on this subject, check out "The Weimar Republic" by Detlev Peukert. It is probably the definitive source on Weimar and the myriad of reasons why it fell (be warned, it doesn't focus on Nazism very much, only how they could weasel their way in)

10-09-2004, 10:44 AM	#15 (permalink)
meepa Insane	I don't think you're taking into account that the consolidation of power for the Nazis in Germany was a lot more than just a propaganda-fest. There is a HUGE list of reasons why the Weimar Republic went down and the Nazis came to power including (without further elaboration because nobody wants to read an essay): Inflation/ paying for the costs of war (WWI) & demobilization French occupation of important industrial areas due to German failure to pay reparations High unemployment Polarization of the potlical "left", ie between the communists and social democrats (I can't stress this enough because it was essentially this that opened the door for right-wing, authoritarian groups to gain a lot of ground) I just wanted to pick some of the biggest issues that came to mind, but it was these thing among others that really made the Weimar Republic prone to collapse. There were just too many problems, all contributing to what Peukert termed the "Crisis of Classical Modernity".* The average Hans in Germany was getting sick and tired of the chaotic times of the Republic and without a unified Left, there was a general longing for "the good old days" (ie Bismark) of an authoritarian goverment that could just get shit done. Now the shift to the right was not immedietly, "Hey, lets all join a Jew-hating party that wants to take over the world!" It is crucial to recognize that 1) anti-semitism was strong in Germany (as in the rest of Europe) prior to Nazism... hating Jews was NOTHING new. The only new thing Nazis brought to it (and this was much later in WWII) was the mass executions of them. Germany was on the path to a Rightist totalitarian regime anyway even before the Nazis were a serious contending party. The last presidents of the Republic were very right-wing figures who didn't really have faith in the system anymore anyway: this really shows that popular opinion for Weimar was failing. The fact that the Nazi part was the ultimate inheritor (or thief) of German politics lies in a complicated story of both the evolution of the Nazi party (from something actually being sorta socialist to not at all) and the super charisma of Hitler and his propaganda machine. So I guess all of this was hastily slapped-together background for me to say that even if the internet was there, it may not have changed much because the Nazi party was giving Germans results (ie revitalizing the economy, etc). They wouldn't give too big a shit about all the anti-semitism concerns because a lot of them already didn't like Jews anyway (hooray for scape goats). Maybe some people would have been worried if they had known the revitalization of the economy was unsustainable and could only be paid off by a looting-war of Europe (hence WWII), but that would have probably been interpereted as Leftis conspiracy theories as everyone was happy as hell to be choking down sausage and having some national pride again. *For more on this subject, check out "The Weimar Republic" by Detlev Peukert. It is probably the definitive source on Weimar and the myriad of reasons why it fell (be warned, it doesn't focus on Nazism very much, only how they could weasel their way in)