That was a short week.
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Originally Posted by adysav
weee, internet 
Obviously every study is worthless without a reputable name attached, and every reputable supplier of articles is unbiased and 100% accurate. Different methods produce different outcomes even with the best of intentions.
Why don't you pick up on all the cases where people are blatantly lying. |
OMG! adysav took something i said, and blew it way out of proportion, shocking.
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Originally Posted by adysav
"Same-sex marriages do not suffer from problems of being weak relationships, complicated custody/inheritance/divorce settlements, birth defects or abuse within the relationship any more then normal heterosexual marriages." courtesy of Mantus.
Where does this information come from? How did someone manage to study homosexual marriage when it isn't legal yet?
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I am not mantus, and i do not speak for him. I will agree that that statement, while seemingly plausible, lacks evidence. Anyways, would you trust me if i attempted to bolster my argument with, "My friend just completed a study on gay marriage and found that it is just like hetero marriage except for the genitalia of those involved."? If so, then cheers, because my friend just happened to complete such a study.
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Originally Posted by adysav
I'm trying to establish that women are clearly naturally predisposed to the care of children by their nature. It comes naturally to women.
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Yes, humans are clearly predisposed to take care of their young. You have no basis to claim that women are naturally better parents than men. None. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooone.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall.
All you can say is that women are different than men, and hope that everybody else makes the cognitive leap that you did by assuming that women are better parents than men.
How is that even measurable? It's not as if the concept of "good parent" is a definitive one. Maybe you could start be defining what it means to be a good parent, and then making an argument as to why men are less capable of fulfilling those criteria.
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Originally Posted by adysav
During the incest argument, you basically claim there must be some validity in the incest taboo because most people believe so. I don't know about where you live, but where I live most people would consider the mother the better parent.
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You must have me confused with someone else. I never argued against incest. I could care less about the actions of consenting adults, related or not. How many times to i have to make that clear? As for the opinions of the people where you live, did you conduct a poll? Or are you just assuming? It doesn't matter. What you're immediate area thinks is irrelevant to anything i care about. I know at least two fathers in my immediate circle of friends who make much better parents than the women they had children with. This is probably completely irrelevant to you. While that may not mean shit in the context of this internet discussion, you can't pretend that there are many fathers who are better parents than many mothers.
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Originally Posted by adysav
It would be very hard to prove, but that does not make it wrong by default. I have yet to see proof to the contrary. (Conveniently the burden of proof appears to fall on me every time, even when it seems so obvious to everyone else that their arguments are correct regardless of evidence.)
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You can't prove it, and that's fine. Your problem is that you can't back up your statement with any kind of logic that doesn't involve some sort of miraculous cognitive jump from point a to point b. Men and women are different, no shit. It does not automatically follow that either is particularly more inclined to effective child rearing.
I'm sorry if you feel like you're being unfairly asked to back up your assertions with some sort of coherent logic, but that is part of the process of arguing. You make a statement as to the nature of reality, and then you back it up with logical statments.
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Originally Posted by mo42
An article summing up my position quite nicely can be found here:
Orson Scott Card's take on homosexual marriage
It is very long, so it is only for the very patient. It sums up my feelings on the subject in a more eloquent manner than I can. |
All i can say is that OSC should stick to writing sci-fi. He assumes that tradition is valid simply because it exists. He assumes that humans are incapable of defining their relationships in terms other than those they learned form their parents. He spends a long time talking about the effects of divorce on children, which is completely irrelevant. He assumes that people can't act morally without the force of society's expectations weighing down on them. He claims that monogamy is definitively the most effective foundation for a civilization based on haphazard logic. He forgets that reproduction isn't that crucial to the marrying habits of society any more, we can choose when to have children. He seems to think that only men would benefit from monogamy. He sees at the root of every problem someone on the left.
I guess in short i think osc is full of shit.