I didn't want to start this idea this way, but I had some time and wanted to set the record straight on this issue. I have moved this post to a new thread from this responce.
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...3&postcount=14
Now now to begin.
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Originally Posted by smooth
People don't respond to Ustwo's claims regarding tort reform probably for two reasons: he claims to be an expert on the issue already and isn't going to change his mind, and the issue as he explained it is hyperbole.
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I’m sorry but if this were true, no one would discuss anything here because everyone seems to have made up their mind already. They don’t discuss it because it is indefensible.
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Lawsuits aren't driving doctors out of business. In so far as any are leaving the state, they are doing so due to insurance costs.
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Which insurance costs are you talking about? The cost of treatment or malpractice insurance? Malpractice insurance costs are being DIRECTLY driven by the lawsuits, ask John Edwards about that one. I am in a field where lawsuits are not profitable. As such my malpractice insurance is about 3k a year. An OB/GYN in my state is at about 140,000 a year. In case you were wondering $140,0000 is a lot of money.
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Obstetricians practicing in Illinois paid an average $139,696 annually for malpractice insurance in 2003; neurosurgeons averaged $228,000, according to the Illinois State Medical Society.
The problem is especially acute in rural areas of central and Southern Illinois considered medically underserved. Many small communities lack doctors and can't attract them.
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Response by a democrat bought off by trial lawyers….
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Gov. Rod Blagojevich basically sides with trial lawyers, who oppose caps on non-economic damages in malpractice awards, and blames the higher premiums on greedy insurance companies. Democrats are developing a reform package that may include subsidies to help doctors deal with high premiums that have already led physicians in high-risk specialties like neurology and obstetrics to limit or close their practices.
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Yes the STATE aka THE PEOPLE, should pay for ridiculous amounts awarded.
Oh but wait it’s the greedy insurance companies?
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St. Paul already has notified virtually all customers who are obstetricians, general surgeons or emergency medicine doctors that it will not renew their policies. Those specialties are among the ones most likely to be sued. After scrambling for new coverage, one six-member OB-GYN practice in North Carolina saw its total premiums more than double, to $277,000.
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The ‘greedy’ insurance companies are dropping high risk doctors (note not bad doctors but doctors in high risk fields) because they can not afford to insure them!
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The issue then would be insurance reform, an issue you listed as relevant. Not only would insurance reform address the relatively wonky lawsuits so heavily touted as the norm by people desiring tort reform for political reasons,
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I’d like some details on this reform. The government handles lawsuit costs by not allowing you to sue them at all. Its how they work in military hospitals (which suck during peace time) and how they work with all of their agencies. My wife was almost killed by a post office semi-trailer who didn’t see her stopped at a red light, and obviously didn’t see the red light. Since it was a post office vehicle we were unable to sue for anything. Had it been a private company it would have cost them about $30,000 due to her injuries. While the current state of lawsuits is sick, you SHOULD be able to sue a bad doctor, but under a government system this will not happen unless they expect the American people to feed the lawyers like they are trying in Illinois.
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The single best system I can think of that would address all of those issues is government managed care. When I listen to the Senate speak, they claim it's what they have--a single payer system sponsered by the good ole US of A. And some of them want it for the rest of us citizens--one of them is Kerry.
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This is the worst idea ever. You see unlike you I have worked in such systems for children, as all poor children are covered under my states system. Let me tell you, first hand its lousy, the state barely pays for the costs of the procedure, no profit is made on most and its often at a loss. The only thing keeping the care anywhere near standard (its not good) is that people like me are working there and not getting paid. Now imagine this system across the state. State tells you how much everything will cost, state tells you what you can do, the state determines your salary, and if we did Hilarycare state would tell you where you have to work.
Now lets take a young student, looking for a career. Would YOU pick medicine? Let me tell you its hard, I spent 7 years past college to do what I do, others go even longer. In college I worked for free in a research lab just for the experience and the letter of recommendation. I maintained a top GPA as a doctoral student so I could specialize into the field I wanted. I worked my ass off. I lost almost all of my pre-grad school friends since I didn’t have time for them. I put off starting a family since I couldn’t have afforded it while in school. Now lets go back to 1993, hell lets go back to 1988. A young fresh faced Ustwo is wondering what to do with his soon to be had high school diploma, would this then 17 year old have picked pre-med for a college major knowing that by itself the degree is worth nothing, and it would take him 11 years of schooling if it was a government agency? Would he have worked his ass off knowing he would not have any financial advantage after all that time in school? Are you out of your freaking mind? Hell no. As it was health profession applications were way down in the 80’s due to the good economy. If you can make a lot of money and have a nice life without years of schooling, most people took that route. The GPA of incoming med/dental students fell to all time lows as schools had less people to choose from. As such the quality of the doctors is lower too, not all doctors are created equal, again I’ve seen that first hand.
Now we can socialize a giant segment of our economy, take away personal freedom to choose your health plan like they do in Canada, and screw with the best medical system in the world in terms of research, development, and technology OR we could make some reforms in a legal system which allows lawyers like democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards make anywhere between 50-150 million from suing INNOCENT doctors, and make changes to insurance/Medicare where it pays to shop around for your care and put more competition into the medical market. To fix medicine we need more free market alternatives. Right now you can see high prices in medical care because when insurance pays for everything people don’t care what the cost is. If there were benefits to finding the best deal you would see market forces take over.
By the time I got done with college of course we were in a mild recession and applications were now at all time highs because medicine was a field you could expect to make a good living at. Then I went to visit some hospitals and get a feel for what I would be doing and I had doctors telling me NOT to get into medicine. Between the HMO’s and the cost of malpractice insurance, along with the headaches of constant lawsuits I met a lot of unhappy doctors. I had plans to go into hematology/oncology. I worked in a genetics lab for that reason. I had visions of using modified viruses for doing genetic therapy (an idea I read about, about 5 years later), but I was really taken aback byt the depressed and angry attitude of so many of the doctors.
I decided to go to plan B. I switched to dental school, worked hard there, got into a great orthodontics school and can enjoy my life a lot more.
Now you see in the US its easier to get into dental school then med school. Being a dentist isn’t exactly glamorous, there is no dental version of ER or Scrubs, and if anything dentists are portrayed as being somehow odd on TV. Money wise dentists and physicians are pretty close, I think physicians average higher but there is a huge variance with dentists. Now lets take Canada. In Canada getting into a dental school is harder then med school. While Canada has both a shortage of med and dental spots, dentistry just seems more desirable there. Now I doubt that dentists are any more liked in Canada then the US, but there is one key difference. Canada has their vaunted socialized system of medicine that does NOT cover dentistry. Being a dentist is more desirable in Canada then being a physician because it is not government controlled.
But lets take a quick look at Canada, a nation which can no longer afford anything resembling a military, (and yes I know luckily they don’t need one, the US should send them a bill) and see how things are going.
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No more money for hospitals despite threat of cuts (Medical Care in Ontario, Canada)
TORONTO -- Ontario's hospitals won't get any more cash from the province despite warnings from the Ontario Hospital Association that a $600-million shortfall this year will mean cuts to patient services, Health Minister George Smitherman said Friday.
Hospitals will not be given more than the extra $470 million they were allocated in this year's budget, Smitherman said while at an event in Ottawa.
That additional cash boosted hospital funding to $11.3 billion for 2004-05. By 2007-08, hospital funding will rise to $12.4 billion.
Smitherman won't back down on his stance despite the hospitals' plea at a news conference Friday that this year's funding shortfall could mean cuts to chemotherapy clinics, outpatient and emergency room services, and other medical services as early as this fall.
''That's what I said today, and what I've been clear with hospitals is that that's the amount of money that the government of Ontario is in a position to provide,'' Smitherman told reporters.
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A Canadian earning $35,000 a year pays more than 21¢ of every dollar he earns - $7,350 annually – in taxes for health care. And what does he get for this rather hefty sum?
According to a legal opinion recently prepared for the Canadian Association of Radiologists, he gets, among other things, medical imaging machines, such as X-rays, so out of date that radiologists should tell patients to "shop around" for newer equipment, even if this means looking outside Canada. In the words of one of the opinion’s authors, "It is imperative that the patient … understand the risks and uncertainties associated with the reliability of such … examination[s]." Far from providing "the best medical care in the world", as is often claimed, it appears Canada’s health care system may - in spite of the tax dollars lavished on it – be on its way to becoming a hazard to our collective health.
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Paul Martin Pledges To Reform Health Care
April 17, 2004
Paul Martin pledged a number of reforms Friday, including a promise to reform health care. In a speech Friday, Martin said "Any discussion of our government’s priorities must begin with health care".
Martin's pledge to reform health care includes, reduced wait times, more doctors and nurses, a national pharmaceuticals strategy and better home care.
"Working with provinces and territories, we must find ways to resolve the shortage of medical providers that exists in too many parts of our country; we must open up medical spaces in our universities, both for young Canadians seeking entry, and new immigrants seeking qualification; we must determine an appropriately expanded role for nurse practitioners and other paramedical personnel; and we must ensure that our diagnostic facilities are adequate and fully utilized", said Martin in his speech Friday.
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For more than a decade, high-tech, high-cost medicine has been colliding with the escalating health-care demands of an aging population. The results, as governments struggle to balance their budgets in the 1990s, have been a shock to Canadians: hospital closures, delisted services, lengthy waiting lists, over crowded emergency rooms, doctors and nurses heading south and a system still costing $86 billion a year to run.
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Oh yes tell me how good Canada’s health care system is. Tell me who invents the new drugs that their government subsidizes (why do you think they are cheaper in Canada??) Tell me who has the best equipment and latest procedures?
If there is one thing Canadians have national pride in besides hockey, its their socialized medicine system. They are told how great it is, US socialists whine about how bad ours is, but the fact is, its not all that great.