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archpaladin · 09-12-2004, 08:25 PM

I'm rather curious to hear CSFilm's response to the recent posts, as he has been strangely absent in contributing to the defense/development of his own arguments....

With that said, I offer my two cents. IMHO....
I believe that the original set of assumptions that CSFilm presents is somewhat lacking. To complete the picture, I would add one more:
5. God is just

Now, at first glance this would present an easy contradiction, since it is most hard for God to be both just and omnibenevolent at the same time. Since CSFilm was looking for a defense from a theist, throughout my defense, I will argue from a Christian perspective.

1. We see that God created a world that He considered "very good". There is no reference in scripture to evil at point in time, thus we cannot prove either its existence or its absence. However, considering that God is omnibenevolent, we can reasonably assume that evil does not exist at the early stages of the universe since direct creation of an evil world would contradict our original assumptions. Note that this makes objection #4 a moot point.

2. Man is created/evolved (whatever have you) and at some point disobeys God. It is reasonable to assume that from God's frame of reference, mankind is now "evil". God, if He is to be just, must administer justice.

3. The dilemma here is now complex. God knew this would happen from the beginning, and must be just, and must also be omnibenevolent. The solution is equally complex.....God allows natural & artificial "evil" as a temporary punishment for disobedience. God then allows mankind a means of restoration from the past disobedience (ie. Jesus & discipleship), with the natural & artifical "evil" as driving forces for mankind to consider issues of ethics, philosophy, spirituality, etc.

4. God's foreknowledge of this whole situation shows that CSFilm's objection #3 is no longer entirely irrelevant. From scripture, we see that God intended to create a situation where He would have a loving relationship with people who were equally willing to love Him in return. Knowing that mankind would need a little prodding to understand why such a relationship is important, there had to be both an understanding of the good/evil duality, as well as the offer of redemption and the promise of justice. For God, this takes foreknowledge, omnibenevolence, and justice. Take any of those qualities out, and you are left with a picture of God that does not adequately explain the current state of affairs.

Anyone who is particularly interested in getting a more theological perspective should read the first half of the book of Romans. Paul more or less works through this kind of argument.

Hope I didn't bore you all to death....

09-12-2004, 08:25 PM	#25 (permalink)
archpaladin Crazy	I'm rather curious to hear CSFilm's response to the recent posts, as he has been strangely absent in contributing to the defense/development of his own arguments.... With that said, I offer my two cents. IMHO.... I believe that the original set of assumptions that CSFilm presents is somewhat lacking. To complete the picture, I would add one more: 5. God is just Now, at first glance this would present an easy contradiction, since it is most hard for God to be both just and omnibenevolent at the same time. Since CSFilm was looking for a defense from a theist, throughout my defense, I will argue from a Christian perspective. 1. We see that God created a world that He considered "very good". There is no reference in scripture to evil at point in time, thus we cannot prove either its existence or its absence. However, considering that God is omnibenevolent, we can reasonably assume that evil does not exist at the early stages of the universe since direct creation of an evil world would contradict our original assumptions. Note that this makes objection #4 a moot point. 2. Man is created/evolved (whatever have you) and at some point disobeys God. It is reasonable to assume that from God's frame of reference, mankind is now "evil". God, if He is to be just, must administer justice. 3. The dilemma here is now complex. God knew this would happen from the beginning, and must be just, and must also be omnibenevolent. The solution is equally complex.....God allows natural & artificial "evil" as a temporary punishment for disobedience. God then allows mankind a means of restoration from the past disobedience (ie. Jesus & discipleship), with the natural & artifical "evil" as driving forces for mankind to consider issues of ethics, philosophy, spirituality, etc. 4. God's foreknowledge of this whole situation shows that CSFilm's objection #3 is no longer entirely irrelevant. From scripture, we see that God intended to create a situation where He would have a loving relationship with people who were equally willing to love Him in return. Knowing that mankind would need a little prodding to understand why such a relationship is important, there had to be both an understanding of the good/evil duality, as well as the offer of redemption and the promise of justice. For God, this takes foreknowledge, omnibenevolence, and justice. Take any of those qualities out, and you are left with a picture of God that does not adequately explain the current state of affairs. Anyone who is particularly interested in getting a more theological perspective should read the first half of the book of Romans. Paul more or less works through this kind of argument. Hope I didn't bore you all to death....