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Old 09-05-2004, 11:18 AM   #48 (permalink)
asaris
Mad Philosopher
 
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Location: Washington, DC
On Jewishness and Christianity: There is a sense in which Christians are Jews; we do indeed see Jesus as the promised Messiah. Of course, most of us are not ethnically Jewish. But we teach that, for the most part, Jews have misunderstood what scripture teaches concerning the Messiah. He came, not to usher in peace and prosperity, but to suffer and die for our sins. He will come back to usher in peace and prosperity.

On Salvation outside the R.C. Church. Of course, I'm very happy that the Catholic Church no longer teaches that I'm going to hell. And what I say here is something of a repetition of what SecretMethod said, but it's an important nuance. There is truth in other religions, but not saving truth; no one is ever saved because they're Buddhist. Similarly, no one is saved because they're a good person. All who are saved are saved by the sacrifice of Christ. But, the RCC teaches that one does not need to know that one is part of the Catholic Church in order to actually be part of the Catholic Church. So, people who, according to our limited view, are not members of the RCC, can still be "secret members".

As a final point, McBrien is slightly outside the mainstream -- not way outside the mainstream, I mean, he teaches here -- but enough outside that one should be leery of taking what he says to be exactly the teaching of the RCC. His emphases and deemphases are odd. It's worth noting that the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops never gave his book their approval.

RoachBoy -- the picture you give isn't really accurate. Sure, the canon wasn't fixed until the 4th century, but it was widely accepted before then. And books like the Gospel of Thomas weren't rejected because they didn't give the church the power it wanted, but because they were later in date and of more dubious authenticity than the canonical gospels. And what do you mean that the Gospels weren't written with reference to empirical accuracy? As far as I can tell, the writers go out of their way to write realistic stories, things with facts that can be checked up on. Where do you get this idea from.
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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche
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