View Single Post
Old 09-04-2004, 02:51 PM   #64 (permalink)
ubertuber
spudly
 
ubertuber's Avatar
 
Location: Ellay
Art,

This thread exemplifies some of what I believe we had discussed earlier in the Constructive Engagement thread. Specifically, your purposes in posting are not always compatible with the reasons and assumptions behind others' posts in this forum. I don't want to put words in your mouth, since I think you speak well for yourself, but it seems that when you see someone who disagrees with you, your first thought is not to treat them as a potential convert and argue with them. I think that you, like myself, try to see this person as a potential teacher and learn about their view points. If this is true, then it would make sense that you could make a post such as the one that started this thread and think that people will just accept it as a statement of your views which is intended more to illuminate your thoughts than it is to change theirs. At least, that is often how I post, and how I try to read the posts of others. Unfortunately, the common mode of dialogue here on TFP and in real life is to proceed to attempt to convince someone of the validity of your views as soon as a disagreement is discovered. I don't truly believe that the tension in this thread is due to arrogance or condescension. I think it has come from the fact that different people express themselves for different reasons - and when this isn't acknowledged the friction between modes of communication is frequently assigned to the individuals doing the communicating.

That said, I have to agree with Art's original post. I don't believe that he is preaching assent for the sake of assent. I do think that he is saying that because he (and I think so to) sees what appears to be much dissent for the sake of dissent, he feels that a balancing position is appropriate. I respect that there are people that strongly dislike our current president. In truth, I value that this is the case. However, I also value people who dislike or like GWB in the context of his position. I can say that I think the political atmosphere might promote more healthy discussion if we didn't seem to personalize our dissent or support for politicians as much as has become customary under Bill Clinton and George Bush. It is hard to say whether we are seeing a swing of the pendulum towards personalization (and I don't mean personal or negative attacks - I mean the type of opinion that people hold as individuals) or if we are witnessing the birth of a new mode of political awareness. Of course, it is always possible that this is and has been standard operating procedure in politics, and we are having a collective mismemory of the "good old days".

Also, I can sympathize with frustration over people arguing with what they think I believe rather than what I say. It happens to me quite often in real life, and I can't decide whether it is because I don't express myself well or if it is because people are not good at listening to each other. Probably some of both...
__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

Last edited by ubertuber; 09-04-2004 at 02:56 PM..
ubertuber is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360