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Originally Posted by ARTelevision
This evokes an observation, based on the current political climate.
I'm fascinated by folks who seem to think they will convince someone with an opposing political view by process of rational/logical debate. I've never seen that happen. If I thought it was effective, I would engage in it myself - which I do not.
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Well, meet your first one ART.
I have been convinced to change my opinions on several occasions. Let's discuss a few relevant ones.
1) My initial opinion was that the war in Iraq was unjustified and dangerous. Even though Hussein had flouted UN sanctions I felt that military actions should be the last resort. I was convinced
OTHERWISE by believing the arguments of Bush/Blair/Powell that Iraq were developing WMD and (specifically) that they could deploy within 45 minutes. Iraq, according to Blair, had over 100 litres of Anthrax, enough to kill over a million people.
All lies.
Against my initial feelings I argued that the war was justified, that if people had invaded Germany earlier the Holocaust could have been avoided (poor analogy but one people seem to relate to), that manifold UN resolutions were ignored etc.
2) In my heart I still believed the was "right", as it removed a tyrant from power. However, when it turned out that the war was based on false premises and was likely a simple extension of a family fued between the Bush and Husseins, then I listened to the arguments of the other side. I began to see their point, to understand that I was wrong. I now openly admit that.
Here's another
1) I used to be a clear supporter of state ownership of utilities. I didn't believe private enterprise had a place to play in these fundamental services, and that the profit motive would simply reduce the level of care they were obliged to offer
all their customers.
2) Having listened and watched over the years, I'm now of the opinion that it
does have a place. I would still like to see government ownership of a high percentage of at least ONE company in each area, but I no longer support the entirely socialist position I once did.
I could go on and on.
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Clearly rational and logical arguments can be constructed to support nearly every opinion humans hold. Evidently there is something else at work here. It could be called blind belief, argument from assumption, or emotionalism - but I think it's more than that.
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What does that mean? If it's a simple observation (or opinion), what does it do to develop the thread's argument?
I've been reading your comments here, and with the greatest respect, I don't really understand what you mean to say or contribute. You seem to step in occasionally and make some obscurely worded and generally unrelated comment. There's an entire Philosophy board for this kind of argument or discussion on the nature of truth, logic, opinion etc. You can join the likes of Karl Popper and debate the death of logical positivism there if you wish. But it's kinda out of place here.
I hasten to add that I've only notice this on this thread, and these comments are meant in good nature.
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Experience is not something that can be formulated well in logical/rational contexts. There are essential aspects of our perception and cognition that are not demonstrable, yet they guide our strongly held convictions. One of them is our ability to ascertain character. That is a fairly unexpainable phenomenon, yet we employ it in making judgements about people.
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So what you're trying to say that people have different opinions and that they're sometimes not easy to explain; this, even though our opinions tend to be rather important as they help us make judgements on people.
Erm... so what? That's nothing new, has no real relevance to the topic of the thread and seems to be expressed in an elitist manner.
I'm kinda interested in starting an entirely new thread on this topic, but not here. :-)
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It does stun me how the tendency to argue points, which are in all instances moot, continues unabated here and far more relentlessly in the politicalized press and media.
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You believe it's moot to argue points? Again, a topic for the Philosophy forum and one I would be happy to debate. :-)
Mr Mephisto