View Single Post
Old 09-01-2004, 12:09 PM   #37 (permalink)
Mephisto2
Junkie
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARTelevision
This evokes an observation, based on the current political climate.
I'm fascinated by folks who seem to think they will convince someone with an opposing political view by process of rational/logical debate. I've never seen that happen. If I thought it was effective, I would engage in it myself - which I do not.
Well, meet your first one ART.

I have been convinced to change my opinions on several occasions. Let's discuss a few relevant ones.

1) My initial opinion was that the war in Iraq was unjustified and dangerous. Even though Hussein had flouted UN sanctions I felt that military actions should be the last resort. I was convinced OTHERWISE by believing the arguments of Bush/Blair/Powell that Iraq were developing WMD and (specifically) that they could deploy within 45 minutes. Iraq, according to Blair, had over 100 litres of Anthrax, enough to kill over a million people.

All lies.

Against my initial feelings I argued that the war was justified, that if people had invaded Germany earlier the Holocaust could have been avoided (poor analogy but one people seem to relate to), that manifold UN resolutions were ignored etc.

2) In my heart I still believed the was "right", as it removed a tyrant from power. However, when it turned out that the war was based on false premises and was likely a simple extension of a family fued between the Bush and Husseins, then I listened to the arguments of the other side. I began to see their point, to understand that I was wrong. I now openly admit that.

Here's another

1) I used to be a clear supporter of state ownership of utilities. I didn't believe private enterprise had a place to play in these fundamental services, and that the profit motive would simply reduce the level of care they were obliged to offer all their customers.

2) Having listened and watched over the years, I'm now of the opinion that it does have a place. I would still like to see government ownership of a high percentage of at least ONE company in each area, but I no longer support the entirely socialist position I once did.


I could go on and on.

Quote:
Clearly rational and logical arguments can be constructed to support nearly every opinion humans hold. Evidently there is something else at work here. It could be called blind belief, argument from assumption, or emotionalism - but I think it's more than that.
What does that mean? If it's a simple observation (or opinion), what does it do to develop the thread's argument?

I've been reading your comments here, and with the greatest respect, I don't really understand what you mean to say or contribute. You seem to step in occasionally and make some obscurely worded and generally unrelated comment. There's an entire Philosophy board for this kind of argument or discussion on the nature of truth, logic, opinion etc. You can join the likes of Karl Popper and debate the death of logical positivism there if you wish. But it's kinda out of place here.

I hasten to add that I've only notice this on this thread, and these comments are meant in good nature.

Quote:
Experience is not something that can be formulated well in logical/rational contexts. There are essential aspects of our perception and cognition that are not demonstrable, yet they guide our strongly held convictions. One of them is our ability to ascertain character. That is a fairly unexpainable phenomenon, yet we employ it in making judgements about people.
So what you're trying to say that people have different opinions and that they're sometimes not easy to explain; this, even though our opinions tend to be rather important as they help us make judgements on people.

Erm... so what? That's nothing new, has no real relevance to the topic of the thread and seems to be expressed in an elitist manner.

I'm kinda interested in starting an entirely new thread on this topic, but not here. :-)

Quote:
It does stun me how the tendency to argue points, which are in all instances moot, continues unabated here and far more relentlessly in the politicalized press and media.
You believe it's moot to argue points? Again, a topic for the Philosophy forum and one I would be happy to debate. :-)


Mr Mephisto
Mephisto2 is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360