Yeah, you're looking at everything too deeply, and that's part of the problem
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If you change the terms of what we're talking about from "good citizen" to include "good person/citizen/member of society", then it is really impossible to have a conversation when you keep changing the terms that you use. Being a good person is different than being a good citizen or a good member of society. Luckily, in this situation, it is irrelevant. The concept of sin, as I understand it, is that people can be sinners and that doesn't mean they're bad people or citizens.
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You are the one insinuating that porn fosters all this negativity when it really doesn't. You're throwing out case studies and statistics to try and back it up, and I can perfectly understand how one would think such a thing, but it's not that black and white. Different things affect different people in various ways.
If you're going to post studies or articles that explain such things, please at least provide a link or a source so we can check how credible it is.
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So, I'm the only one who's conditioned by society and you've managed to bust out of the mold in some sort of Herculean thrust?
Nowhere do I say that people can't function in a state of alienation. In fact, many people enjoy their alienation and are afraid of living in a non-alienated state. You can function normally, be "productive", and so on whilst being alienated. I just see alienation as a negative thing that we should want to avoid. You haven't argued against that as far as I can see.
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Hm, no, I just understand and accept the fact that not everyone has or will have problems like this. Those that do can choose not to participate. *shrug*
I haven't argued against alienation because I simply don't see any alienation. If everyone in the country right now started having wild casual sex, yes, it would cause problems because of how they were normally conditioned. But I believe that had people or society evolved in a different manner as to not make sex so important, there really wouldn't be any complicated social issues. Of course there will be problems if you take a mass of people accustomed to idea X and make them adapt to idea Y.
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Teens are doing what they've always done in higher numbers, higher percentages, and on average at younger ages.
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Nothing to do with the topic, but thanks for the statistic. Porn causes this how?
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Why don't you do what you're describing then?
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Why don't I do what I'm describing? I already answered this. I have before (and without consequence I might add), but I don't know because my girlfriend doesn't exactly share the same point of view, nor do I really care to do it anymore just because it's not something my life revolves around. Why? Because it's not a big deal. I just personally see nothing wrong with the fact that someone can have casual sex with another person, tis all
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Sex is a powerful metaphorical act, regardless of religious views.
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And that's your opinion. Not everyone thinks of it that way.
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That's like saying "praying to god is a powerful metaphorical act" because of the way it makes people behave or influences the world... but your mind will make it anything it wants to be or anything it's told to be. Maybe to you it is, but to me it's not. If you take a person emotionally attached to sex and then have casual sex with them, it would impact them, yes, and I'm not arguing against that. I'm saying there's absolutely no reason to be emotionally attached to sex other than the fact that society says so, and BECAUSE society says so it will, of course, affect any current "studies" you will find. My argument is: there is no reason to be emotionally attached to sex any more than one should be emotionally attached to, say, shaking hands or kissing someone. It's only personal, private, and special because, for the most part, you were told it was and those around you also believe the same.
(Sorry for the big edit, just wanted to clear that part up)
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You make it sound as though someone can shed off everything that would normally affect them if they have an "open-mind".
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Something like sex, yeah, someone could probably view differently if they spent some time thinking about it. Something more traumatic... probably not. But you make it sound like it's nearly impossible for someone to think this way
Maybe you can't, but it's not like what I'm saying is that far fetched...
At this point in the thread I have a hard time taking anything you say seriously because it is so extreme and convoluted that it really no longer has any bearing on the actual topic. Not everything is as complex or problematic as you're making it out to be.