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Originally Posted by Stompy
Nor is this thread about anything you've described so far on this page (teenage orgies, alienation, etc..). It's about porn and sin. If the thread isn't about being a good person/citizen/member of society, then why bother asking if it's sinful? Sinful to what? Religion? Self, others? You're kinda going off in a direction that it doesn't need to be going in while I'm simply stating that society has always made sex more special or "sacred" than it is and as a result, pornography, or watching pepole have sex, is frowned upon for no reason.
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If you change the terms of what we're talking about from "good citizen" to include "good person/citizen/member of society", then it is really impossible to have a conversation when you keep changing the terms that you use. Being a good person is different than being a good citizen or a good member of society. Luckily, in this situation, it is irrelevant. The concept of sin, as I understand it, is that people can be sinners and that doesn't mean they're bad people or citizens.
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You haven't remotely described how it's about alienation even though I've asked about it multipel times. Alienation from what? Each other, emotions? How so? Where in the world does porn even fit in to that? Pretty much everything discussed on this page has been way off topic and, IMO, has nothing to do with porn. Maybe there should be a thread if teenage orgies are sinful, or if casual sex is sinful.
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Yes, I have.
Where I systematically list the reasons that porn fosters alienation. I really dislike how you take everything I say and attempt to discredit it by talking about teenage orgies. That was just an example that is illustrative of how our society's view of sex is warped, which leads to extreme cases. I have put more emphasis on many other things that I've written about.
I think it is impossible to talk about whether porn is good or bad without looking at the society and culture it is used in. If you want to talk about porn in a vacuum, you'll find that the conversation ends really quickly.
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You're somewhat proving my point because you're going on and on about alienation, but what works FOR YOU doesn't exactly work for everyone else. To YOU it takes a lot of rationalization, but not everyone else. Society has conditioned you to think and feel one way, and that's exactly what I've been saying from the beginning.
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So, I'm the only one who's conditioned by society and you've managed to bust out of the mold in some sort of Herculean thrust?
Nowhere do I say that people can't function in a state of alienation. In fact, many people enjoy their alienation and are afraid of living in a non-alienated state. You can function normally, be "productive", and so on whilst being alienated. I just see alienation as a negative thing that we should want to avoid. You haven't argued against that as far as I can see.
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There is no "alienation". It's all in your head. Not to mention you completely overlooked my statement that many many people DO look at porn whether or not they admit it... and are living perfectly fine lives.
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I've made no absolute statements that say "If you look at porn then your life is ruined" or anything like that.
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I still have yet to see a thoughtful response as to why watching movies or seeing pictures of people have sex should be considered sinful. The cases you posted are VERY extreme and are few and far between and have no bearing whatsoever on the majority of people. Honestly now... I could poll the highschools around here for MILES and I doubt any one of them has students who actively participate in massive orgies. Teens are doing what teens have always done.
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Teens are doing what they've always done in higher numbers, higher percentages, and on average at younger ages.
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It all starts with the ability to think outside of the box. You don't have to personally agree or participate in what I'm saying, but you do have to understand and accept that there ARE many many many people who do it and can get along just perfectly fine. I've even said that I don't actively do anything of what I'm describing, but I'm aware it exists, and I'm fully aware it poses no threats whatsoever to those who do it with an open-mind.
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Why don't you do what you're describing then?
You make it sound as though someone can shed off everything that would normally affect them if they have an "open-mind". There are certain aspects of humanity and society that we can't avoid, even though I'd wish we could sometimes. Sex is a powerful metaphorical act, regardless of religious views. We can attempt to devalue the metaphors, and that too is an alienating process. People do it though, and they function, and they even try to convince everyone that their way is best.