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asaris · 08-12-2004, 07:47 AM

orphen -- Don't worry, I have the worst time with Aristotlian myself. Anwyay, my position is essentially an Aristotlian one, with a few alterations (it's really Scotist, with some Nietzschean tweaks, if you really want to know). And, IIRC at least, motives are one of the three features of right action in Aristotle.

cybermike -- yes, Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins, but anger is also listed among them. There are situations where anger is justified or even required. I doubt that exactly the same applies to greed, but we do have obligations to ourselves and our families that require material possessions to satisfy. So the desire for material wealth is not, in itself, bad. But the desire for material wealth as such, without the corresponding desire for what wealth can do for you (support Habitat for Humanity, send your kids through college, allow you to get to work), is "the root of all kinds of evil" -- it's very easy to get corrupted in a situation where the accumulation of wealth is your chief value.

Wil -- But according to the Christian belief system, we do have access to what God thinks. It's called scripture. And I don't know that the fact that the world is complicated means we can't say very general things about certain easy circumstances; these thoughts about easy circumstances can help us with the more difficult ones. It's important to remember that the ethical sphere is very complicated, and that's among the reasons we should be hesitant to judge someone's actions (Paul writes: "I do not even judge myself!"). Among my mottos is "Towards epistemic humility!", and that applies in the ethical sphere as well.

08-12-2004, 07:47 AM	#23 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Location: Washington, DC	orphen -- Don't worry, I have the worst time with Aristotlian myself. Anwyay, my position is essentially an Aristotlian one, with a few alterations (it's really Scotist, with some Nietzschean tweaks, if you really want to know). And, IIRC at least, motives are one of the three features of right action in Aristotle. cybermike -- yes, Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins, but anger is also listed among them. There are situations where anger is justified or even required. I doubt that exactly the same applies to greed, but we do have obligations to ourselves and our families that require material possessions to satisfy. So the desire for material wealth is not, in itself, bad. But the desire for material wealth as such, without the corresponding desire for what wealth can do for you (support Habitat for Humanity, send your kids through college, allow you to get to work), is "the root of all kinds of evil" -- it's very easy to get corrupted in a situation where the accumulation of wealth is your chief value. Wil -- But according to the Christian belief system, we do have access to what God thinks. It's called scripture. And I don't know that the fact that the world is complicated means we can't say very general things about certain easy circumstances; these thoughts about easy circumstances can help us with the more difficult ones. It's important to remember that the ethical sphere is very complicated, and that's among the reasons we should be hesitant to judge someone's actions (Paul writes: "I do not even judge myself!"). Among my mottos is "Towards epistemic humility!", and that applies in the ethical sphere as well. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche