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denim · 08-11-2004, 06:25 AM

You want self-centered, I'll give you self-centered. I'm a "me-ist" at heart, but with the understanding that others matter too. My problem is, which others, and how do I keep the rest from getting to me and mine. I dare say that trumps Art's "fear" concept w/o totally invalidating it.

There are things bigger than me which are worth fighting for. I think most people will agree with this relative to their individual "me"s. The disagreements start when you try to determine how much bigger you're willing to get, and how much compimise you can stomach.

I've seen a list of this kind of grouping in, I think, RAH's Starship Troopers. It goes something like

self
family
tribe
country
species

where the bigger person manages to care about the larger grouping. I find this too clear-cut for everyday use.

I can care about our species, but less than I care about our country, but less than, etcetera. I doubt this is unusual. OTOH, the thing which horrified me the most in Orwell's 1984 was the idea of trying to breed out orgasm. To lots of people, that may be the only real joy they ever have, and removing it takes out the net keeping the human race alive. Any such breed would tend to die out.

In fact, RAH tended to go on about this quite a bit in the 1960s. Starship Troopers was originally intended to be a Juvenile, in fact. Later that decade, he published The Moon is a Harsh Mistress which is essentially about exploring different forms of government, starting with essential anarchy. Anyone else here read them? And don't bring up that horrible movie.

08-11-2004, 06:25 AM	#64 (permalink)
denim Banned Location: Massachusetts, USA	You want self-centered, I'll give you self-centered. I'm a "me-ist" at heart, but with the understanding that others matter too. My problem is, which others, and how do I keep the rest from getting to me and mine. I dare say that trumps Art's "fear" concept w/o totally invalidating it. There are things bigger than me which are worth fighting for. I think most people will agree with this relative to their individual "me"s. The disagreements start when you try to determine how much bigger you're willing to get, and how much compimise you can stomach. I've seen a list of this kind of grouping in, I think, RAH's Starship Troopers. It goes something like self family tribe country species where the bigger person manages to care about the larger grouping. I find this too clear-cut for everyday use. I can care about our species, but less than I care about our country, but less than, etcetera. I doubt this is unusual. OTOH, the thing which horrified me the most in Orwell's 1984 was the idea of trying to breed out orgasm. To lots of people, that may be the only real joy they ever have, and removing it takes out the net keeping the human race alive. Any such breed would tend to die out. In fact, RAH tended to go on about this quite a bit in the 1960s. Starship Troopers was originally intended to be a Juvenile, in fact. Later that decade, he published The Moon is a Harsh Mistress which is essentially about exploring different forms of government, starting with essential anarchy. Anyone else here read them? And don't bring up that horrible movie.