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billege · 08-03-2004, 09:46 PM

Whoa there buddy, I took criminal law too. A Terry stop does not give you the right to ask for ID, nor does the refusal of ID give you the right to hold the person until they can be identified.

A Terry stop is when you, an agent of the government, infringes on a person's civil rights in order to conduct a brief investigation based on articulable facts and it provides for a pat down weapons search. It does not say, hey, show me your ID.

In our case here, Terry doesn't matter anyway. If the lady commited a crime, according to an asnine law, and the officer saw it, he's well within his rights to detain her for the purposes of enforcing that law. At that point, she may need some ID.

Asking for papers in this country is touch and go right now. More and more people want us to be fascist in the name of safety. I seriously wonder if Americans are so stupid as to turn this in to South Africa, but we all get to carry papers.
For the time being, if I have commited no crime, and you have no reason to believe I did, you will not be getting my ID until you can articulate to me why you feel that's necessary.

I must say to you, if you're an officer, that you may want to change your train of thought a little bit.

You say " When someone refuses to identify themselves, the first question popping into my head is "Why?" do they have an outstanding warrent? Are they going to be a danger to my safety because of a previous record that they might want to keep hidden? Are they (at the extreme) an escaped criminal who is a cop hater and is carrying a gun? "

You need to consider that they may believe in civil rights. Even though your job is to deal with the guilty, our great coutnry tries to keep the belief of innocent unitl proven guilty.
Until you see something that tells you otherwise, I'll thank you to not think of me as guilty, until I prove to you I'm not.
That's not the way this country is supposed to work.

08-03-2004, 09:46 PM	#56 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	Whoa there buddy, I took criminal law too. A Terry stop does not give you the right to ask for ID, nor does the refusal of ID give you the right to hold the person until they can be identified. A Terry stop is when you, an agent of the government, infringes on a person's civil rights in order to conduct a brief investigation based on articulable facts and it provides for a pat down weapons search. It does not say, hey, show me your ID. In our case here, Terry doesn't matter anyway. If the lady commited a crime, according to an asnine law, and the officer saw it, he's well within his rights to detain her for the purposes of enforcing that law. At that point, she may need some ID. Asking for papers in this country is touch and go right now. More and more people want us to be fascist in the name of safety. I seriously wonder if Americans are so stupid as to turn this in to South Africa, but we all get to carry papers. For the time being, if I have commited no crime, and you have no reason to believe I did, you will not be getting my ID until you can articulate to me why you feel that's necessary. I must say to you, if you're an officer, that you may want to change your train of thought a little bit. You say " When someone refuses to identify themselves, the first question popping into my head is "Why?" do they have an outstanding warrent? Are they going to be a danger to my safety because of a previous record that they might want to keep hidden? Are they (at the extreme) an escaped criminal who is a cop hater and is carrying a gun? " You need to consider that they may believe in civil rights. Even though your job is to deal with the guilty, our great coutnry tries to keep the belief of innocent unitl proven guilty. Until you see something that tells you otherwise, I'll thank you to not think of me as guilty, until I prove to you I'm not. That's not the way this country is supposed to work. __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend." Last edited by billege; 08-03-2004 at 09:49 PM..