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onetime2 · 07-12-2004, 04:39 AM

Personally, I don't agree with wonderwench's statements fully nor do I think your characterization of them is entirely spot on but...

Here are my feelings. Wonderwench is correct in the assertion that France has been relegated to the back woods of international importance (at least in comparison to the role they've played in the several hundred years prior to 1950 or so). Their strategy appears to be to create a sphere of influence in the world through the EU and exert heavy influence over the EU through close relations with Germany. Iraq was a unique opportunity to exert some power on a worldwide scale. They have little ability to exert economic or military power around the world but, with their key presence on the UN security council they are offered some opportunities to flex some muscles. There were certainly economic interests in Iraq and they were important to both France and Germany, of greater import however is pushing themselves into the stage of world politics when possible. Through these efforts they can exert more power within the EU and have a larger voice on the world stage.

As far as why the US went into Iraq, I've said it before and I guess I'll say it again. The reasons stated were a minor part of the real reason. The US has developed a reputation as a paper tiger who will turn tail and run when bloodied even slightly. Further, the lack of response to terrorist attacks over the last 30 years has allowed terror groups (and their state sponsors and allies) to operate with little fear of repercussion. Saddam Hussein's defiance of the UN sanctions (largely thought of as US imposed) for more than a decade contributed to this reputation and encouraged others to ignore US warnings. Removal of the Taliban and Saddam in the face of mounting US deaths signal a change of policy and proof that there will be consequences to direct attacks on our citizens/military and the perceived threats represented by the possession of wmds (or the posturing which implies such programs).

07-12-2004, 04:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
onetime2 Junkie Location: NJ	Personally, I don't agree with wonderwench's statements fully nor do I think your characterization of them is entirely spot on but... Here are my feelings. Wonderwench is correct in the assertion that France has been relegated to the back woods of international importance (at least in comparison to the role they've played in the several hundred years prior to 1950 or so). Their strategy appears to be to create a sphere of influence in the world through the EU and exert heavy influence over the EU through close relations with Germany. Iraq was a unique opportunity to exert some power on a worldwide scale. They have little ability to exert economic or military power around the world but, with their key presence on the UN security council they are offered some opportunities to flex some muscles. There were certainly economic interests in Iraq and they were important to both France and Germany, of greater import however is pushing themselves into the stage of world politics when possible. Through these efforts they can exert more power within the EU and have a larger voice on the world stage. As far as why the US went into Iraq, I've said it before and I guess I'll say it again. The reasons stated were a minor part of the real reason. The US has developed a reputation as a paper tiger who will turn tail and run when bloodied even slightly. Further, the lack of response to terrorist attacks over the last 30 years has allowed terror groups (and their state sponsors and allies) to operate with little fear of repercussion. Saddam Hussein's defiance of the UN sanctions (largely thought of as US imposed) for more than a decade contributed to this reputation and encouraged others to ignore US warnings. Removal of the Taliban and Saddam in the face of mounting US deaths signal a change of policy and proof that there will be consequences to direct attacks on our citizens/military and the perceived threats represented by the possession of wmds (or the posturing which implies such programs). __________________ Strive to be more curious than ignorant. Last edited by onetime2; 07-12-2004 at 04:46 AM..