roachboy

what about the arguments other than the last comment?
i dont think you can get around them.

it is sad, really, to find over and over that people who support this lunacy cannot or will not articulate their positions, cannot or will not open their assumptions up for debate, cannot or will not even look critically at their own views, that they rely too often on prepackaged responses from a variety of sourses and cannot or will not go outside that packaging to think for themselves.

or maybe better to give evidence that someone from the outside can recognize that, behind the repetition, they are doing so.

because it is hard to tell when the dominant ideology is being repeated what is going on behind the scenes.

it is usually frustration that prompts me to push at the borders, so see if there is an actual autonomous thinking person behind the repition--it rarely works---usually it just makes the thread snippy for a while, then i or others lose interest.

believe it or not, i am open to being persuaded on matters that i talk about---for example, my position on gun control has drifted considerably under pressure from discussions with others. but i am also more than willing to bring others under pressure--because i think that real discussion can be useful---however going round in tiresome circles is not, and as i have lots of other things going on around me, i do not have time to waste on it.

i think you are wrong.

i think bush lied.

i think the war was illegitimate and that it was and is a debacle.

i think hussein was a shithead, but i also know that the americans have supported lots and lots of bigger shitheads who were conveninent politically---so human rights arguments in a case like this hold no water a priori.
i can on the other hand imagine a military intervention on human rights grounds being legitimate--but not a unilateral action, not proactive---in consort with the community of nations, maybe--under the aegis of the un, maybe. under the tutelage of the mayberry machiavellians? not a chance.
all bushwar serves to do is increase cynicism about the idea of human rights being other than a cheap fig leaf placed over a war carried out on other grounds, for other reasons. and i do not think cheapening the language of human rights is a good thing.

if you or anyone else wants to actually discuss this difference of views, i'll come back into the thread actively. otherwise, i am done with it.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite