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Old 06-16-2004, 09:05 AM   #51 (permalink)
pan6467
Lennonite Priest
 
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Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
I can understand one's dislike for Christianity when they deal with and see people like Pat Robertson and "Bible thumping" born agains. These types ran me away from Christianity.

Yes our nation was founded by Christians. Maryland was British Catholics leaving their homes for feart of DEATH by the queen and king. Massachusetts was founded by the Puritans.

In the late 1800's and into the very late 1900's there was open prejudices against Jews and Catholics especially Irish.

I cannot nor will not turn my back on the past and the major parts religion played in it, good and bad.

Quote:
Originally posted by bonbonbox
We are jerking ourselves around with the whole religion thing. We have no freedom when it comes to religion when the governing powers get to decide what is and is not religion. I say eliminate god from all government in any shape or form.
The government has recognized many many religions, and have done so equally. Out West there are churches devoted to UFOology, There is Scientology, Wiccan, Satanic, Pagan and so on churches out there that are treated equally by the government. Hell in the 60's if you jumped through the hoops and did your research you could start a religion, become a minister and successfully fight to get out of the draft.

So tell me again how that is all Judeo-Christian.

As said previously, perhaps the past and a majority put their value on the word GOD. But that word does not have to have the same meaning as you have put on it. No one BUT YOU can put value on the word. To argue what value the word has, means YOU HAVE put that value on the word, not someone else.

I have chosen my value, and no one can ever put a different value on my GOD. I believe religion and spirituality are very private things. I only talk about my beliefs when asked or when friends and I gather and we talk philosophies.

I will not devalue another's because they have the same rights I do to place their value on GOD.

Again, GOD only has the value you put on the word. To argue otherwise is to say you have accepted someone else's value and you choose to devalue what they believe. Not them devaluing your belief, because your belief has been tainted and you allowed others to value the word for you.



Quote:
Originally posted by Wax_off
The argument of "They were talking about any God, not just the Judeo-Christian God" is fairly persuasive. If that were so then I would be alright with the pledge as it stands, despite being an atheist.

But I really don't think it is that way. If asked 99% of Americans are going to say "yes, that's one nation under a white haired guy in the clouds." (alright, they won't say that, but you get the idea.) I think there would be a tremendous uproar if anyone proposed saying "One nation, under Allah" or "One nation, under Buddah" or Shiva, or Thor or Hera or Ra or any of the thousands of other gods one might worship.

To me this means that the Christian majority is imposing it's religious preference on govt. procedings and that's disallowed by the constitution.
Using the 99% (which is extremely high as we have I believe over a 25% non Judeo Christian population) argument, if we were to take a poll of whether or not people had a true problem with GOD being in the pledge or on money, I would feel probably the same percentage wouldn't care or would want it.

So to say because a vast majority has this value on the word is the same as saying the vast majority prefer it is there. So your side is proposing a very small minority DICTATE to others what they can say and what value they place on a word.

As for the 10 Commandments, what is the problem with having them hang in a court? 9 of them have nothing to do with GOD, if the judge prefers to have them hang in his workspace (which is the court room) that is his right.

You all are making a great stink over nothing, clogging court systems, demanding others bow down to your will and ideals. No more. You are now infringing on my rights, stealing tax money from me to fight these, and for what purpose? What exactly do you win by taking the word GOD out of everything? What do future generations win?

It is our spirituality that gives us our individuality. Make this a Godless society and we shall fall apart very very fast, either through a decline in morals or by becoming zombies to the Big Brother.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
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