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Originally posted by Kostya
The Christians did not do this, people, under the banner of Christianity, acting in such a way as to completely preclude them from being within the bounds of anything espoused by the Gospels did this. Furthermore this was not extremism, it was fairly widespread and acceptable amongst Europeans at the time. It was not however Christian.
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It's not my problem whether the people doing it were being "christian" or not. They did it; they blamed/credited it on/to their religion. I agree they weren't being good Christians, but that's irrelevant. They did it to people not in their own brand of Christianity, let alone non-Christians. It
was religious, whether the people doing it were honest about it or not. Truth. Deal with it.
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Moreover, some might claim that Christians have now 'moderated' their 'extremists' as if this is some kind of sign of the inherently superior cultural values of the religion.
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Er, you misunderstand me. As far as I'm concerned, all Christians are heretics, being that I'm Jewish. "Jews for Jesus" are Christians by definition, and are therefore heretics too. I don't hold it against them, as it's not my problem, if it's a problem.
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I must remind you however of the 'Christian' tribesmen in Nigeria who routinely raid and destroy Muslim settlements in the north.
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That done under the color of a religion is religious, whether it's done by doctrine or not.
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What you are referring to has nothing to do with religious values and a lot to do with a myriad of interrelated social, cultural and political developments over many centuries upon which entire books could be written and still fall short of being accurate.
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Oh, I'm hurt! Don't let the fact that I'm not going into detail prevent
you from doing so, sir! I'm aware that we're glossing over a God-awful amount, but that doesn't change the fact that these religions are involved.
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What 'system' is that exactly?
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It's the system under which the arabs as a group live. It spreads like many memes. It's family and shame-based. They'd say it's shame/honor based, but I say they are clueless about honor, so I'm saying it as I see it.
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Moreover, may I also point out that the completely antiquated notion of social Darwinism has raised its ugly head on a few occassions in this thread. Frankly, anyone who appeals to the idea of a civilisation 'evolving' or being 'backward' is displaying a gross misunderstanding of the concepts involved.
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Probably true, but I won't commit myself on that. Historians, economists, and archeologists each have at least one opinion about everything, rarely agreeing with others in their field. There is usually another way to understand a given thing.
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Direct from Qu'ran, unfortunately in translation but never mind:
Surah 109
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
TO YOU BE YOUR WAY, AND ME MINE.
Happy now?
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Yes, actually. You've made a good point that I should pick up a copy of the Qu'ran. Any Moslem would say that's a good deed, I suspect.
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Yes, that's right I have a Qu'ran on my bookshelf, no I'm not muslim, but I took the time out to purchase a copy of it simply to learn about this beautiful and brilliant tradition. I've been told by my Muslim friends however, and various lecturers who speak and write Arabic that it sounds much better in the original language than in translation.
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From what I've heard, they're precisely accurate in saying that. "Must be read in the original." is what I've heard since I've heard anything about it.
Furthermore, any translation of anything will necessarily contain inaccuracies. I would like to read Dante's Comedy in the original Italian, and I should read the Hebrew bible in the original languages too.