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Old 06-02-2004, 06:38 AM   #57 (permalink)
Kostya
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by denim
Exactly, so where's your argument? The Christians did this, then moved on to moderating their extremists. The Moslems haven't done that yet, and it'll come down on all of them if they don't manage it.

Note that the violence is inherent in their system. A "good moslem" does do that kind of thing, by a strict reading of their holy book, as I understand it. Those who don't have moderated their attitude, as have their predicessors.
Exactly what is my argument:

The Christians did not do this, people, under the banner of Christianity, acting in such a way as to completely preclude them from being within the bounds of anything espoused by the Gospels did this. Furthermore this was not extremism, it was fairly widespread and acceptable amongst Europeans at the time. It was not however Christian. Moreover, some might claim that Christians have now 'moderated' their 'extremists' as if this is some kind of sign of the inherently superior cultural values of the religion. I must remind you however of the 'Christian' tribesmen in Nigeria who routinely raid and destroy Muslim settlements in the north. What you are referring to has nothing to do with religious values and a lot to do with a myriad of interrelated social, cultural and political developments over many centuries upon which entire books could be written and still fall short of being accurate.

Note that violence is 'inherent' in their system...

What 'system' is that exactly?
Surely the same claim could be made about a society where schoolchildren shoot each other. I don't quite understand what you mean by this.

Moreover, may I also point out that the completely antiquated notion of social Darwinism has raised its ugly head on a few occassions in this thread. Frankly, anyone who appeals to the idea of a civilisation 'evolving' or being 'backward' is displaying a gross misunderstanding of the concepts involved.

denim, just for you:

*Sound of Kostya clearing throat*

Direct from Qu'ran, unfortunately in translation but never mind:

Surah 109

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
TO YOU BE YOUR WAY, AND ME MINE.


Happy now?

Yes, that's right I have a Qu'ran on my bookshelf, no I'm not muslim, but I took the time out to purchase a copy of it simply to learn about this beautiful and brilliant tradition. I've been told by my Muslim friends however, and various lecturers who speak and write Arabic that it sounds much better in the original language than in translation.
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