View Single Post
Old 05-28-2004, 07:51 AM   #32 (permalink)
onetime2
Junkie
 
Location: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by rsl12
also onetime: the "you're with us or you're against us" quote i'm thinking of WAS directed towards germany and france--saying that they should get on board with the program. I will look it up for you to get the exact quote if you like.

EDIT: Here's the quote and a link: "Over time it's going to be important for nations to know they will be held accountable for inactivity," he said. "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror."

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/11/06/gen.attack.on.terror/

To put it into perspective: let's say that you're on a football team and the halfback tells you, "I want you to do this and this and this. Either you're with me or you're against me. If you don't do what I say, you will be held accountable." Wouldn't you think he was being kind of an asshole? What gives him the right to say what the team is going to do?

And in terms of the Gore speech, wouldn't you say the halfback is showing contempt for anyone who disagrees with him?
First, this article is from 2001, long before the invasion of Iraq.

Obviously, since the invasion hadn't happened yet and we didn't know where the French and Germans would ultimately stand on their participation, he was talking about the entire war on terror not specifically the war in Iraq. Iraq, as described by Bush and others, is only one front in the war on terror. Certainly the French and Germans are cooperating with us in fighting terror outside of Iraq. Their efforts couldn't possibly be described as inactivity as they regularly share intelligence about terrorist activity.

In truth, I don't quite get your analogy. Who am I in the situation? Am I supposed to be blocking for him? Am I the quarterback? I don't know. Being "held accountable" doesn't quite communicate what exactly will happen if I don't do what he says. If I don't block for him will I not get credit for a successful play or is he going to kill me? There are certainly very different levels of consequence. Bush has never, as far as I've seen, said what the consequences of opposing US policy will be. Certainly the implication for those who are directly supporting terrorists or who are themselves terrorists the implications are clear. As far as our allies in the war on terror, he leaves plenty of room for them to contribute with having to send forces and he doesn't say that if you don't support us we're going to invade you. It's just a lot of hyperbole and nobody can really think we're going to completely sever our relationships with those countries who didn't join us in Iraq. Will they pay penalties for not supporting us? Absolutely. They will get the cold shoulder in lots of negotiations, they will not benefit from the reconstruction of Iraq, they will not get our support in the future on some things.
__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.
onetime2 is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360