Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Rumsfeld, Iraq, and Operation Copper Green

onetime2 · 05-17-2004, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by roachboy
the iraq war is coming to resemble the algerian war more and more closely.

in both cases, a vertically organized military confronted an opponent that was horizontally organized. in both cases, there was an assumption that somewhere, hidden by recalicrant local folk, lay hidden an organization that resembled the state military.

in both cases, the notion of terrorism was used to justify an extra-legal kind of war, one in which the use of torture was at once secret and widespread.

in both cases, the use of torture rested upon a kind of contempt for international conventions that shaped the rules of conventional engagement--though (depending on how you look at it, and shaping this perspective is the main fight goin on in the media right now--think about the difference in frame of reference that you get from america-based press as over against english or french or german media outlets, for example) the bush administration has gone further in the "war on terror" than the french did during the algerian war in using extra-legal means to conduct their campaign.

in both cases, the use of fear generated by "terrorism"was obviously central to justifying this end-run around law. That people would be afraid of such attacks is normal--- but things change once that fear gets translated into the logic behind state policy.

in both cases, the occupying power put the search for intelligence ahead of protecting the basic human rights of people detained.
(think about the holding of suspects without trial in the states under the patriot act, about guantanomo, etc.)

in both the case of the algerian war and that of iraq, the policy that enabled torture to be used as a weapon appears also to have been linked to a normalization of torture amongst the people who carried it out. this is, to me, the most unnerving aspect of this whole affair--the photos of the smiling troops, the impression given that nothing is wrong with what is being photographed. chillling stuff.

in both the algerian war and now, the public exposure of torture was a catastrophe for the dominant power.

i think the parallels stop here (i hope they do at least--i cant see what you could equate to the oas in this context, for example).

but the algerian war is, i think, an instructive historical example to think about. i suppose the only real problem for using algeria as an example is the afterglow of the anti-french posture articulated by the likes of richard perle early on in this sad sad affair.

there is little surprising in principle in hersh's article.
that said, i am interested to see what happens with the information he presents at the level of detail.
but i am not surprised by what it says in general.
and that does not make me happy.

Interesting perspective and overall a very good post. We seem to agree on the thinking that enabled it to happen and share a disgust for the seeming enjoyment the soldiers got from the torture.