Quote:
Originally posted by Mondak
pan6467
You covered a lot there and some of that stuff may even deserve its own thread. That being said, there was a lot of "whats" in that and a lot less "how did we get here" or "why is that the case".
Cut the numbers in a lot of different ways, but we are by and large in better shape in a lot of areas.
Health: AIDS infection rates are down, healthcare is more advanced, teenage pregnancy rates are way down.
US Nation: Literacy rates are at an all time high, true poverty is low to non-existant, malnutrition has been wiped out in the US.
Is it ever enough? No. Should we ever be satisfied? No way!
"Bring back manufacturing jobs" is not the easiest task in the world. To close down trade to allow American made products to compete would have huge effects on other industries that do compete today. To have the governement speak for the gap - taxes would have to go up - a lot.
I believe in free markets and the efficiencies they bring. I think that the problems we are having are growing pains that are caused when our government does not allow the market to act on its own. They raise taxes to pay for programs to address things that are not really public goods.
My view of deficits is that they should be used in specific cases where an investment needs to be made that will pay far larger dividends in the future than our current tax base will support. If a spending program cannot promise that - cut it!
|
First, while it is important to find out why the divide between classes is so great, and how. We need to work on the solution first. If we work to figure out how and why first, we'll get the customary finger pointing from both sides and nothing will be solved except the GOP will continue to cut social programs, while the Dems. will throw money and neither is the answer. The answer lies in the middle.
While healthcare is better, it is forcing people into heavy debt, bankruptcy and companies to cut other benefits and jobs because of the outrageous pricing. Even malpractice insurance is killing the Dr.s and affecting their jobs. Yes, people can say our healthcare is among the best, and it is but the price is way too high. And when we look at infant mortality rates we rank lower than some 3rd world countries and last in the industrialized countries. Also, affecting the quality of healthcare is the fact that our foods are safer (better less carcinogenic and poisonous insecticides, fertilizers, better standards and education on cooking) , we promote health and fitness (we know about cholesterol and smoking effects and have cut them down). But the life expectancy has not truly increased in 40 years.
Child malnutrition is low because of school lunches and education, but adult malnutrition exists. More from lifestyle than any other reason, but they do exist.
Literacy maybe up but computer literacy is not improving, and that is the literacy we need to focus on now.
I don't disagree with much of what you said Mondak. And the great thing about this country was the exchanging of ideas and finding ways to improve. The problem today is neither side wants to do that and if someone does then he is attacked by both sides.
Quote:
Originally posted by onetime2
Sorry but people are far better off today. Health care, transportation systems, number of jobs, home ownership, retirement savings, etc, etc, etc are all up compared with the past.
You and Kadath seem to think there's a problem with "millionaires" and that they don't "give back". This is completely off base. These "millionaires" don't just have their money locked away in their closets. The money they keep in banks, the stock market, bonds, invest in starting their own companies, etc helps the economy to move forward.
While debt levels are relatively high and Americans should pay them down, their net worth far exceeds their debt. Americans are more likely to have 401k plans, own their own home, have second or third cars, and have countless other assets that the "typical" person didn't have 10 or 20 years ago.
|
As for Onetime, People don't "own their own home" more now than in the past. In fact look at the numbers and you'll find people in fact owe more on their homes than before. Not because the homes are more expensive (which they are) but because they have Equity loans and second mortgages.
You need to understand and this is what is killing this country faster than any split in parties (which is just an diversion to keep from focussing on the bigger problem). That problem is that debt runs the nation. Therefore credit has to be expanded more than ever before. If we force people to live within their means as they did in the past, we would definately lose our standard of living and face severe financial problems.
So yeah, people own the 2-3 cars, and this and that for a better lifestyle, but they are also deeper in debt, have no savings and while they may have more saved for retirement, they'll also be paying more debt off than the previous generation. And when they die the creditors will take all they can, and the kids become responsible for the outstanding debts and then the snowball effect really starts.
What we need to do is swallow the pill now to protect the future generations and cut all debt, live within our means and figure out a way to build a capitalist / free market system that doesn't feed on debt. The only way for that to happen is to distribute fairly the wealth.
Yes, the man who takes the risk deserves more than the one who just works and doesn't. BUT, both should be able to live debt free and enjoy a decent standard of living.