View Single Post
Old 04-21-2004, 05:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
KnifeMissile
 
KnifeMissile's Avatar
 
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Quote:
Originally posted by Sapper
4) according to Archimedes principle, the mass of water displaced by the submerged portion of the ice equals the volume of the ice displacing the water times its density

of interest: this means that as the ice melts (becomes more dense) it will displace less water but its volume also decreases proportionately

Ok - with what we know, the ice cubes will become more dense and thus have a lower volume (by definition) as they melt. We also know that the ice cubes displace a certain amount of water (raising the water level) due to the difference in density. We also know that the amount of water displaced by ice is proportionate to the volume of ice.

Sadly, not enough information is given to choose between a or b as was noted by Peetster.
Volume times density is mass. Your first sentence has been greatly obfuscated by you saying "volume of the ice displacing the water times its density" when you could simply have said "mass."

I disagree with your (and Peetster's) assessment that there is not enough information to choose an answer. I believe that there is, as I have already stated in an earlier post. You are looking so hard for more information to help you with this problem that you have included too much of it. Not everything that you mentioned is relevant to this problem and much of it is too specific.

Then again, this is the mathematician in me talking.

Let's work backwards because I find it easier to think that way.
Say, you have a pitcher of water. The water level will be at some height. Now, suppose that we freeze a portion of the water. This will be our "icecube." This portion of water will expand and the water level will rise as a result.
However, because the icecube is now going to float to the top, a portion of it's volume, that was previously displacing the water and causing the water level to rise, will be floating above the water. Obviously, this portion is not displacing the water and, so, the water level will go down, again.
The question now becomes, by how much will it go down? This is the difficulty that Peetster was mentioning and the both of you are convinced that we don't have enough information to know.

I think we do.

According to Archimedes, the mass of water displaced by the submerged portion of the icecube equals the mass of the icecube (as paraphrased by Sapper).
So, what is the mass of the icecube? Well, it's the same as the portion of water it was made from! I mean, just because you froze some water doesn't mean you changed its mass, does it?
Since the mass is the same, we can safely conclude that the volume of water displaced by the icecube is the same as the volume of the ice cube when it was water!
Therefore, the water level will not change.
QED. (oh, there's that math, again!)
KnifeMissile is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360