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Old 04-01-2004, 07:33 PM   #54 (permalink)
BuDDaH
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hannukah harry,

I didn't insult your intelligence, don't try to play with mine.

You obviously DON"T KNOW JACK about Black American history.

Don't worry, I do.. It's people like me that will be RIGHT here to remind people like you who needs "PROOF". We have shit-loads of history AND proof, but can you accept it? You have documented history that will make your head spin. And still, all you can say is "You want proof?"


First this is what the lawsuits are about these Issues:

Determining whether or not the descendants of African slaves brought to the U.S. should be repaid for the work and suffering of their ancestors.

Determining who should be held accountable for the repayment.

Determining who would be eligible to receive any such payment.

And determining how any such payment would be made to those eligible, e.g. in the form of cash, governmental benefits, a verbal apology, land grants, education benefits, etc.

History Lesson #2

Quote:
Originally posted by hannukah harry
i'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't really mean this. there is no forensic evidence. there are records and files. that is not forensic evidence. forensic evidence would be hair and fingerprints and blood left at a crime scene.
PROOF:
Lawyers for the eight plaintiffs said the complaint _ unlike past suits seeking reparations for slavery _ was the first to use DNA to link the plaintiffs to Africans who suffered atrocities during the slave trade. ..
DNA testing has made a "direct connection" between Farmer-Paellmann and the Mende tribe in Sierra Leone, whose people "were kidnapped, tortured and shipped in chains to the United States," the suit said.

Scientific evidence also has linked the other plaintiffs to tribes in Niger and Gambia, the suit said. ...

Quote:
Originally posted by hannukah harry
sorta. crispus attucks death in the boston massacre is often cited as the first. others consider the battle of lexington, 6 years later, to hold the first death. doesn't really matter. you know how crispus died? he and a lot of other people were taunting the british gaurds throwing sticks and one of the guns was accidently fired. doesn't sound like he died some noble death.
The American Revolution started way back, BEFORE 1776, look up the history.

How the hell you get "accidently" shot TWICE?

I know, I know!! The soldier had his finger stuck on "Auto-fire" and it shot until the clip emptied..
Read, dude.. http://search.eb.com/blackhistory/micro/40/36.html

(b. 1723?--d. March 5, 1770, Boston, Mass. [U.S.]), American hero and martyr of the Boston Massacre.
Attucks' life prior to the day of his death is still shrouded in mystery. Most historians say that he was black; others argue that his ancestry was both African and Natick Indian. In any event, in the fall of 1750, a resident of Framingham, Mass., advertised for the recovery of a runaway slave named Crispus--usually thought to be the Crispus in question. In the 20-year interval between his escape from slavery and his death at the hands of British soldiers, Attucks probably spent a good deal of time aboard whaling ships.

All that is definitely known about him concerns the Boston Massacre on March 5, 1770. Toward evening that day, a crowd of colonists gathered and began taunting a small group of British soldiers. Tension mounted rapidly, and when one of the soldiers was struck the others fired their muskets, killing three of the Americans instantly and mortally wounding two others. Attucks was the first to fall, thus becoming one of the first men to lose his life in the cause of American independence. His body was carried to Faneuil Hall, where it lay in state until March 8, when all five victims were buried in a common grave. Attucks was the only victim of the Boston Massacre whose name was widely remembered. In 1888 the Crispus Attucks monument was unveiled in the Boston Common.


Quote:
Originally posted by hannukah harry

not to be rude/mean, but if you think this was the cause, then you have a very juvenile understanding of the causes of the civil war and the reason for the emanciption proclimation. it's much more complicated than that, and slavery was merely a piece in the pie.
Dude, what the hell you think "Emancipation Proclimation" was all about? The States fought a Civil War because Abraham Lincoln ABOLISHED SLAVERY and the southern states REBELLED against AN EXECUTIVE ORDER. Don't belittle it, too many dead AMERICAN soldiers and my family STILL waits for that 40 acres and a mule..

Background: During the Reconstruction Period following the Civil War, slaves were promised "forty acres and a mule" to help them start their lives as 'free men'. The promise was never kept and the idea of reparations began to grow. The debt owed to African-American descendants of slaves for work and suffering has been estimated anywhere between $1.6 and $777 trillion by those in favor of reparations.
The Case For: Those in favor of slavery reparations argue that compensation promised to slaves upon their release was never paid. Proponents cite the years of labor, horrendous conditions, rape and beatings at the hands of their owners and veritable construction of the country as reasons for the debt that is owed. Deadria Farmer-Paellmann, the plaintiff in the most recent case against U.S. corporations for slavery reparations states, "These are corporations that benefited from stealing people, from stealing labor, from forced breeding, from torture, from committing numerous horrendous acts, and there's no reason why they should be able to hold onto assets they acquired through such horrendous acts." Farmer-Paellmann's case cites "unpaid labor" as the cause of the compensatory damages she and her lawyers are seeking.
Quote:
Originally posted by hannukah harry
well, last time i checked, indifference to a group doesn't hold them back. also, if big business got 400 years of free work, then they must have been around and america colonized and ready for slaves by 1463. slavery in america lasted about 200-250 years, when you consider the first colony at james town was in the early 1600's, and slaves did not arrive right with them, nor did they arrive in any real numbers right away.
Slaves came over on the same ship as Christopher Columbus and in fact it has been recently PROVEN that he was too busy chasing savage ass and a slave "found" America, but to get back on point at hand...

The practice of capturing Blacks from Africa, to use as slaves began with the Portuguese, who introduced African slaves to Europe in the 16th century. European countries, such as Spain and England, introduced slavery to their colonies in the New World. Many explorers had African slaves on their voyages.

Another excerpt: The transatlantic trade in black slaves began in 1517, when the first slaves were shipped to American colonies. It endured until the threshold of the 20th century. By then an estimated 11 million Africans had been SOLD..

Lemme see... 1517 + 400 = 1917.... That's about right....
400 years.

(This is when Big Business in America got into making slavery PROFITABLE.

In 1637 the first slave ship was built in Massachusetts. The slave ships sailed from America to the west coast of Africa. It is important to understand that the Africans living on the west coast of Africa, did not consist of primitive tribes, but was a well developed civilization, with complex economic and political institutions.

The slave traders acquired their Africans in one of two ways. One was very simple. The slave trader would lie in wait until an African would come along, and capture them. The other was a little more complicated. The slave trader would make an alliance with a tribal chief. This tribal chief would wage war on a neighboring tribe. Any of the enemy that the chief captured he would trade for goods, such as tobacco, and liquor, with the slave traders.

The means of acquiring the Africans was kind compared to how they were treated once aboard the slave ship. The more Africans the slave traders crammed into the ship, the more profit they would make once they sold their goods in America. Africans were chained together and made to lie shoulder to shoulder in the dark hull of the ship, where no fresh air ever found its way. So stifling was the air, that some Africans actually suffocated during the long voyage.
*I don't see where they really had the opportunity for luxury...*
An estimated 15 million Africans were transported to the Americas between 1540 and 1850. To maximize their profits slave merchants carried as many slaves as was physically possible on their ships. A House of Commons committee in 1788 discovered that one slave-ship, The Brookes, was originally built to to carry a maximum of 451 people, but was carrying over 600 slaves from Africa to the Americas.

Chained together by their hands and feet, the slaves had little room to move. It has been estimated that only about half of the slaves taken from Africa became effective workers in the Americas. A large number of slaves died on the journey from diseases such as smallpox and dysentery. Others committed suicide by refusing to eat. Many of the slaves were crippled for life as a consequence of the way they were chained up on the ship.

By the 17th century slaves could be purchased in Africa for about $25 and sold in the Americas for about $150. After the slave-trade was declared illegal, prices went much higher. Even with a death-rate of 50 per cent, merchants could expect to make tremendous profits from the trade.

*Even Insurance compnaies was in on this*
Already, research has determined that several insurers were involved in providing slave insurance policies to slave owners. Deadria Farmer-Paellmann, an attorney, has discovered an 1852 circular that named some of the insurers that serviced these policies. The National Loan Fund Life Assurance Company of London distributed a circular entitled "A Method by Which Slave Owners May Be Protected From Loss" in which it named The Merchants Bank and The Leather Manufacturers Bank as institutions able to pay and adjust claims. The circular also included the names of medical examiners in Virginia, Washington DC, and North Carolina who were authorized to examine slaves and offer insurance policies. Under a typical policy, a 30-year-old slave could be insured for $500 with an annual premium of about $11.25.

The circular has exposed that Chase Manhattan was connected with slave insurance policies based upon its merger with two of the banks named in the circular. In 1920, the Merchants Bank merged with The Bank of the Manhattan Company, and in 1955 it merged with Chase. In 1904, The Leather Manufacturers Bank merged with The Mechanics National Bank, and then in 1926 merged with Chase. However, Chase is not alone, it has also been uncovered that Aetna was involved in slavery as well. In March of 2000, Aetna issued a public apology for its involvement in underwriting policies in the 1850s. Other companies include, New York Life, American Life Insurance Co., and Baltimore Life Insurance Co., which is not related to the present day insurer, The Baltimore Life Companies.


The lawsuit is the first of its kind and accuses insurer Aetna, railroad firm CSX and financial-services firm FleetBoston of profiting from the slave trade before it was abolished in 1865.
Ms Paellmann's complaint contends CSX, FleetBoston and Aetna were "unjustly enriched" by "a system that enslaved, tortured, starved and exploited human beings".

Some 35 million African Americans are the descendants of the eight million men and women who were enslaved from 1619 to 1865. The suit against FleetBoston alleges that the founder of the predecessor firm, Providence Bank, made much of his fortune in the slave trade.

According to the complaint, Rhode Island businessman John Brown owned slave ships and benefited from loans made by Providence Bank to help finance the voyages.
Quote:
Originally posted by hannukah harry
they did not sue because they were put into slavery. they sued because they were robbed of their possesions and put into concentration camps and killed. it is not the same as owning a slave in order to get work out of him. those that went to the camps were put there to be productive until they died of illness or starvation. slaves were not treated nearly as bad as the jews were.....
I almost want to tell you shut up and realize how stupid that sounded.... Jews were forced to work....

Ever heard of Volkswagon?

In a similar legal manoeuvre, survivors of the Holocaust secured $4bn in reparations from firms that used Nazi-era slave labour.

Those companies included Deutsche Bank, conglomerate Siemens and carmakers Volkswagen and DaimlerChrysler.
You go and think about it a while before rebuting me, I know MY history abit too WELL for you to tell me what you'd think you know against WHAT I do know...

Somebody needs to read the WHOLE article and it ain't me.
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Last edited by BuDDaH; 04-01-2004 at 07:52 PM..
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