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Originally posted by pan6467
Again, no points, nothing to allow me to open my mind. Just more "Do your own research". Hell, you guys aren't even showing me where to start, yet I am to believe all my facts and research to date is wrong solely because you say so?
Just remember this, people in this thread came to you asking for knowledge (peacefully) and you chose not to give them any. As stated before that is worse than us having "false and faulty beliefs" because by your unwillingness to show anything, you perpetrate intentionally those beliefs to become even more firm and feelings of "why does it matter?" to continue. It all snowballs to where people, like me who do have open minds say, "fuck it, why should I care anymore?" (Unfortunately, speaking just for myself, I love life and living on this planet and learning others' ideas before we all destroy each other.)
As Billions of tax dollars go over there, I think the US people deserve to know what kind of people we are truly supporting in Isreal. Because the tax dollars we are sending over happens to be cutting into the education, health and growth of this country. Plus with that deficit thingy and all it's cutting into the future of the US in every aspect. But it's ok, we'll keep politicians in office who won't question and they'll keep sending you the checks.
Perhaps Isreal doesn't want peace. The more problems there are in the Middle East the more the US turns its back on what Isreal does and the more tax dollars Isreal gets from the US and UK to buy more WMD's, and perpetrate more hate and more troubles in that region. Aw well, we all have to die sometime, just was hoping a generation someday would be living without fear of the Middle East.
By the way............ you were the one who told me that ISREAL WASN'T THERE TO BEGIN WITH, now when confronted with facts you admit they do, but only because they are trying to instill peace. Either you are flat out lying or you truly don't know what's going on and you just can't admit that your beliefs are as faulty as mine.
You state they have been trying to get rid of Gaza, then why did they fight the 7 day war for it? Why when given oppurtunities left and right to rid themselves of it do they keep it?
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1. US aid to Israel is I believe ball park figure 3-4 billion annually, some say as high as 5.5. It was something they recieved for making peace with Egpyt, hence Egypt recieves the same package. A lot of it is in loan form. As it goes Israel may be one of the few countries to have never faltered in paying it back. Further more why shouldn't Israel be allowed foreign aid? They been a very powerful strategic ally in two different major political fronts (cold war/ war on terrorism).
http://www.hotpolitics.com/tax4israel.htm
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The common argument that the United States gives Israel $3 billion per year-$1.2 billion in economic aid and $1.8 billion in military aid-is misleading. This figure is impressive enough, since it represents about one-sixth of total U.S. foreign aid. Yet the true figure is even more remarkable, with estimates ranging as high as $5.5 billion per year. Calculating the exact amount of U.S. aid to Israel, however, is difficult. One has to make estimates because much of the aid is buried in the budgets of other government agencies, mostly the Department of Defense (DOD). Aid is also allotted in a form that is not easily quantifiable, such as the early disbursement of financial aid which allows Israel to gain (and the U.S. taxpayer to lose) the interest on the funds that have not yet been spent.
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2. Perhaps Israel doesn't want peace. Or perhaps they want to be left alone. 1949 they made gains after being Invaded, same with 56'. The six day war of 67' came about because Egypt, Jordan, and Syria kept provoking Israel's military which was causing serious economic repercussions in the country, so Israel fixed the problem by beating the piss out of the Egpytian and Syrian militaries. Israel held on the gains as a means to bargain and broker peace. The Arabs refused to deal with the Israeli's except for Saddat in the 70's, at which point Gaza was relinquished, and Saddat was killed by hardliners.
3. I never said Israel was not occupying Gaza or the West Bank. You were talking about how they Palestinians there are held down, you were blaming Israel. All I made mention to was the fact that those incharge of the situation are actually Egypt, Jordan, and The PA. Civically and politcally Israel exerts no control. The occupation is a tough thing. On one hand you have Palestinians being repressed, on the other everytime Israel eases up a bus or restuarant gets blown up. The PA has done nothing to curb the terrorism, if anything it promotes it through organizations that are a member of the politcal fatah movement i.e. Al Aqsa. At this point Israel has every right to protect its citizens by any and all means necessary.
I wasn't trying to shout anyone down, nor was I trying to avoid the facts. If I am wrong someone can point it out, but as I understand it, this is the way things currently are. Also I think a big conflict of interest is that we are on different ends of the hawk/dove spectrum, not to mention it seems you misread or misinterpreted what I said.