First,
I would like to thank the board for their thoughtful and reasoned responses.
This is when I enjoy being here.
Now to answer some posts:
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Quote:
Originally posted by Superbelt
I agree the AWB was irrational legislation.
Can you give me anywhere near a listing of the guns banned under AWB?
I think it would be interesting to see the list and see what, if any, from that list members here think should be restricted from individuals.
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This was actually alot harder to track down than I thought it would be, but I finally found a comprehensive list:
Quote:
What Weapons Were Banned By the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban?
According to the legislation, the term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means -
(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as -
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher;
(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and
(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of -
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
Ammunition magazines holding greater than 10 rounds were also banned.
(Source: US Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Section 921)
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Again, it is important to say that all of the weapons banned ARE NOT machine guns (automatic weapons). The are semi-automatic.
Also, most of those have been changed slightly and can still be bought legally. The example I am most familiar with the the AR15 which can be bought legally, even though the Colt AR15 was mentioned specifically.
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevie667
I really just can't see any logical application for owning an assault rifle that doesn't involve breaking the law.
yes, i can appreciate the need for high power weaponry in areas like alaska where the local fauna is less than agreeable, but i'm sure letting people legally own high powered killing machines in areas where the only dangerous thing is a dust mite defies logic...
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Do a google on CMP and match shooting. It's a big sport.
Also, ranchers and people in the boonies love AR15's because they are light, reliable and easy to use when out on the back 40.
Quote:
but, maybe thats just me not seeing the obvious benefits to owning a weapon that sprays death
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This is how I can tell you've been gotten too: "sprays death".
A machine gun could arguably be said to "spray death". But again, confusion is what they count on.
If these guns "spray death", then so does dad's semiautomatic hunting rifle, because the mechanism is no different: One Pull, One Shot.
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Quote:
Originally posted by seretogis
Fully automatics (guns that keep shooting until you let go of the trigger) are still illegal, even after the AWB expires.
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A correction: Fully automatic weapons are NOT illegal. They are HEAVILY regulated by the Firearms Act of 1934. Right now they are just very expense after an extensive permitting process.
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Quote:
Originally posted by smooth
I didn't view the AWB as being based on irrational fear. I interpret it as the legislature attempting to ban weapons they viewed as dangerous. The gun industry then found loopholes to continue building weapons that would operate in a similar fashion to the ones that were banned.
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I am not making fun of you, but I really want you to look again at what you said: "weapons they viewed as dangerous" key word, "viewed".
They didn't use statistics, they used
looks.
But to look at something rational, like all the statistics or functionality of the banned weapons, vs the legal ones, is when this law falls apart.
Again, please, just look at the statistics.
- Crime down. Assault weapons still available.
- Claim "1 in 5 cops shot with Assault rifles" Truth: go look at the FBI stats and what they really say and DON'T say.
- CDC report that no conclusion can be made that these laws have had any effect.
- FBI stats on the number of "assault weapons" used in crime.
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Quote:
Originally posted by smooth
Are you contending that a folded rifle (about the size of a grown man's forearm) has the same function as a long stock rifle?
I disagree that they serve the same function. I think that folded stocks allow people to take accurate rifles and more easily conceal them than if they were long stocked.
That said, I understand your desire to shoot a folded stock rifle for fun. Also, you may want to practice in case a war occurs. Older rifles, however, aren't subject to this bill. I've never been approaced by an officer out in the woods, and not at a range. I suspect that the only time you might be bothered over the rifle you just described would be if you were swinging it around in Target. And if you were, I'd certainly want this law on the books to make it illegal for you to do that shit in a supermarket. And I'd want them to arrest you as fast as possible (or maybe Lebell would shoot you with his handgun), before you started letting rounds off.
Put in that light, are you amendable to this bill allowing for you to lawfully use such weapons in a sport or training setting? (that wording is actually a bit loose, but someone would have to fix it up). Essentially illegal in certain areas--like smoking?
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When can all play "what if". What if this happened, what if that happened, but again, the statistics don't back you up. Aside from the high profile cases which are great news, criminals overwhelmingly use pistols for crimes, drive-bys, etc.
And yes, if that did happen, I would try my best to stop that person from hurting anyone while not hurting anyone myself, regardless if I happened to by carrying my concealed weapon that day.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HarmlessRabbit
Well, I think some actual assault weapons should be controlled. I see no reason for a person to have a fully automatic large-bore weapon at home in most cases.
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I'm not hammering on purpose, but this needs repeating:
The weapons here are SEMI-AUTOMATIC, NOT AUTOMATIC.
Fully automatic weapons are strictly controlled by the 1934 Firearms act.
Those that have them pay a LOT of money for them and go through a very very rigorous FBI background check and permitting process.
They are basically a very expensive (and fun) hobby.
Again, statistics bear me out: I think there may be ONE automatic weapons crime in the last 50 years or so, and that was a cop using (I think) a department weapon. (I would have to google for 100% certaintly and I'm getting tired, but I know for a fact that the number is less than 2 and I am about 85% sure of my facts above).
Quote:
I'm flexible to the idea that responsible people, gun clubs, etc, could have the larger weapons, in return for agreeing to deeper background checks or for agreeing to inspection of their facilities for safety, etc. Your pics you posted of people firing off big weapons looked like a lot of fun.
I think the current assault weapons ban is flawed, but I would support a "real" assault weapons ban.
My idea of a perfect gun control law would be this:
Level one - small weapons (home defense and hunting)
- short, lenient background check
- standardized national gun safety course
- limits on quantities
- agreements from the gunmakers to voluntarily limit distribution of "saturday night specials
- national standards for flea markets with the same standards for background check, etc, as gun dealers
- exemptions for antique guns are fine by me
level two - fully automatic weapons and other hand-held guns with no real hunting or self-defense use
- deeper background check
- more extensive safety course
- sold only through licensed dealers
level three - antique, oddball stuff, large guns, small mortars, small rockets
- limited to licensed gun clubs
- extensive background check
- off home facility required
- random inspections possible
Of course, getting a nice clean gun control bill through any congress is impossible. Between the NRA on one side and the Brady bill types on the other, any bill going through is going to be severely watered down by the other side. That's why we have the mess we have today.
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I'm getting tired, but would like to finish this:
While I respect your thoughts on that, I simply ask, "why"?
Again, statistically there doesn't seem to be a reason for your laws.
Crime rates (including gun related ones) are at
1960 levels.
For those that DO occur, MANY are drug related.
My honest opinion is that if people are honest about wanting to reduce gun crime, then we MUST tackle drug crime, because that will cause the greatest reduction in gun deaths, as well as other related criminal activity.
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Ok, don't gig me for grammar or spelling or other foul-ups, I'll fix it if I can tomorrow, otherwise it might not happen for awhile, as I'll be out of town.
Thanks again!