View Single Post
Old 03-05-2004, 08:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
asaris
Mad Philosopher
 
asaris's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Thagrastay -- much of what you say is false, and I don't think it's appropriate for you to label it "the Christian take on it". It might be your take, or your churches take, but it's not the Christian take, because there are Christians who disagree with it. I am not a Catholic, but over the past few years I've lived with various Catholics, so I have a pretty good idea what they believe and why. So to cover your points:

So Catholicism borrowed heavily from Judaism. Isn't Christianity a Jewish religion? And the pope is hardly a high priest -- he is an apostle. And as an apostle, he has the duty to report the will of God.

Most of your points about Mary depend on matters of interpretation. It's hardly a basis to exclude Catholics from the fold of Christianity, if they hold to the orthodox doctrine, that she is "full of grace" but not divine.

Catholics do not pray to saints, or Mary for that matter. They talk to them, and ask them to intercede for them before God, much like we might ask our friends to pray for us.

The Catholic church also believes that we are saved by Grace through faith, but they do not draw the distinction between justification and sanctification that we do. We believe that once you believe, you are saved, but you need to work to become more holy. Catholics believe that salvation is a lifelong (and post-life) process, where one is not sent to heaven until one is perfect. But we do not earn our salvation.

Sure Jesus said that we should call no man father. But what do you call your Dad? He was using hyperbole, a figure of speech he uses a lot, to get across the point that we are ultimately responsible to God, not the priests.

Certainly there are abuses of wealth and power in the Catholic Church, historically and today. But that does not mean the organization as a whole is corrupt -- any religious organization, by its nature, will have its bad seeds.
__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche
asaris is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360