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No surrender · 03-02-2004, 03:30 PM

Oh wow, this one might take a while to wear out. Good topic.

I think we have to look at the premise of whatever legal system you are discussing. Those legal systems cited at the top of this thread all carry the premise that one is innocent until proven guilty. To administer truth serums before a the criminal trial would be presuming all people guilty.

Secondly, our legal system carries with it the prohibition against compelling people to testify against their own criminal interests. This is the oft cited "5th Amendment" prohibition against self-incrimination.

While we might think of ourselves as civilized, the tenets of our legal system are based upon the recognition of those "inalienable" rights - which if watered down, could lead us to a less free society. Look at the current state of Haiti for instance.

I suppose if technology ever gets to the point where we can unintrusively, and absolutely, determine truth with a sip of some serum or a scan of some sort, then we may not need the protections currently built into the [U.S.] Constitution as well as others. But until such technology exists that can guarantee that individual rights will not be violated, I don't see it as a viable solution.

You are also correct that our legal systems (criminal, civil, workers compensation, juvenile and dependency) are very imperfect. Certainly money provides one with an advantage, but why should our legal system not mirror the society they are created to serve? Yes it is wrong, but I know of no way to fix it in an economic system known as capitalism. The legal systems work as well as they can given the sheer volume they handle and the costs involved. Don't let the OJ cases, or the Kobe cases or the McDonald's hot coffee verdicts block your view that, overall, the criminal system, and the others get it right a very high percentage of the time. Keep in mind, also, that it is human nature to deny wrongdoing or moral inadequacies. I once heard it said that prisons are full of men proclaiming their innocence.

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" said the character in Shakespeare's Henry VI,. Contrary to popular belief, the proposal was not designed to restore sanity to commercial life. Rather, it was intended to eliminate those who might stand in the way of a contemplated revolution -- thus underscoring the important role that lawyers can play in society.

I'm not advocating for lawyers - rather trying to give some perspective on this topic. Thanks for hearing me out.

03-02-2004, 03:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
No surrender Addict Location: West Coast	Oh wow, this one might take a while to wear out. Good topic. I think we have to look at the premise of whatever legal system you are discussing. Those legal systems cited at the top of this thread all carry the premise that one is innocent until proven guilty. To administer truth serums before a the criminal trial would be presuming all people guilty. Secondly, our legal system carries with it the prohibition against compelling people to testify against their own criminal interests. This is the oft cited "5th Amendment" prohibition against self-incrimination. While we might think of ourselves as civilized, the tenets of our legal system are based upon the recognition of those "inalienable" rights - which if watered down, could lead us to a less free society. Look at the current state of Haiti for instance. I suppose if technology ever gets to the point where we can unintrusively, and absolutely, determine truth with a sip of some serum or a scan of some sort, then we may not need the protections currently built into the [U.S.] Constitution as well as others. But until such technology exists that can guarantee that individual rights will not be violated, I don't see it as a viable solution. You are also correct that our legal systems (criminal, civil, workers compensation, juvenile and dependency) are very imperfect. Certainly money provides one with an advantage, but why should our legal system not mirror the society they are created to serve? Yes it is wrong, but I know of no way to fix it in an economic system known as capitalism. The legal systems work as well as they can given the sheer volume they handle and the costs involved. Don't let the OJ cases, or the Kobe cases or the McDonald's hot coffee verdicts block your view that, overall, the criminal system, and the others get it right a very high percentage of the time. Keep in mind, also, that it is human nature to deny wrongdoing or moral inadequacies. I once heard it said that prisons are full of men proclaiming their innocence. "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" said the character in Shakespeare's Henry VI,. Contrary to popular belief, the proposal was not designed to restore sanity to commercial life. Rather, it was intended to eliminate those who might stand in the way of a contemplated revolution -- thus underscoring the important role that lawyers can play in society. I'm not advocating for lawyers - rather trying to give some perspective on this topic. Thanks for hearing me out.