Opinion wanted: Buying a Shotgun
 

I have always thought about buying a shotgun for home protection.
I have seen ads for one called a "POLICE SPECIAL" or "Police
Pump Shotgun" or something similar. I have fired a regular 20ga.
hunting shotgun and the Army 30 cal. carbine and M1 rifle. My
question is : would the short barreled "Police Shotgun" be a good
weapon for mainly home protection or is there a better choice for
me ,keeping in mind the cost should remain similar to the Police
shotgun. Thanks. :thumbsup:

Shotguns are excellent choices for home defense.

A Remington 870 or a Mossberg are great for the purpose.

this is exactly what you want, you also want it to be a pump action 12 ga. (the remington 870 is a pump action gun) and have a short (18-22inches) barrel. This is not going to be an enjoyable gun to shoot, and is going to be more or less useless as a hunting gun. Now for ammo....Some people are going to tell you to load it with double ought buck shot. Don't do this, it's expensive, and truthfully, it's just not necessary, at the short range you are likely to encounter in a home defense situation, I'd recommend a nothing larger than #4 shot, and myself i'd choose a #6 shot (the larger the number the smaller the BB's). Even a target load is going to accomplish your goal in a home defense situation.

Mossberg 590 Persuader..

make sure you get the bayonet lug, ghost ring sights and the heat shield.

you'll be a happy jack then :D

Forget the SSG/Buckshot/Gooseshot Debate and load it up with Bird Bombs and Dragon's Breath in an alternating fashion starting with the bird bombs. Also make sure that the second last round is rocksalt and the last one is a slug.

Trust me when I say if you ever have to use it on intruders you won't have to call 911 and everyone will know not to f*ck with you.*


*very bad advice!

Going with the pack on this.

I've had an 870 for 30 years and it is a great gun. A few things to consider when you buy one.

(1) Make sure it has the "Highway Patrol" conversion feeding tongue or you buy the parts to do this yourself. This is a movable part where the shells feed in and will have a U-shaped cutout rather than solid part. It allows a jam to be cleared should a shell become trapped behind the tongue. I bought the parts to convert mine at a police supply store for very short money.

(2) Get one chambered for 3" shells as they also chamber 2 3/4". My 870 only chambers 2 3/4" not magnums. I seldom shoot magnums in other guns that are chambered for them and nearly always shoot 2 3/4" but having the option is nice. Especially if the are the only shells you can find.

(3) A 21" deer barrel with rifle sights is more versatile than an 18" barrel. Plus, if you use an extended magazine, it does not go past the end of the muzzle.

(4) The best accessories for the 870 & other shotguns (stocks, mag extensions, etc.) are made by Choate Machine & Tool. Great customer service and products. They are located in Arkansas and can be found via Google.

(5) The 870 is my first choice but many will choose a Mossberg 500 over it. They are usually cheaper & less well finished. They are good guns however and certainly worth considering.

(6) Find a gun store that buys up police turn-ins. Here in New England I've seen good condition 870's with most of the above for ~$150.

Good Luck!

Remington 870.
Options to consider for a defense shotgun:
Vang Comped barrel (www.vangcomp.com) - cut and crowned to 18"
Tac-Star SideSaddle Shotshell Carrier
LPA Ghost ring sights
SpeedFeed shortened tactical stock
Surefire 618FA weapon light
3-point sling - (Giles or CQB)

BTW - that's NOT my gun in the photo.
https://www.vangcomp.com/images/ron_1.jpg

all the controls can be reached without altering your firing grip on the mossberg, this cannot be done on the remington, thats my observation about why people choose the mossberg over the remington.

apparently the army thought the same way :D

I believe the Army decision was also based on the cost factor of the Mossberg and needing to rapidly supply many troops during wartime. For the same dollar, more Mossbergs could get into the field. That is just plain smart.

The only control you cannot reach on the 870 without removing your firing grip is the slide release. That could be a major issue in a room clearing firefight should you have a misfire while on target. If it is to rack the action after reloading, you would have to have your hand off the grip anyway.

Jesus, you guys live in a different world than I. "Roomclearing firefights"?!?!?! Shit, I don't even lock my doors, I leave my keys in the ignition and let my kids walk home from the bus stop. I love rural Canada.

For that matter, what use are any kind of sights for "home defense"? This is a shotgun after all, and you are using it at extreme close range. You won't have time to line up the sights, nor would you need to.

internetarmory.com has this to say about home defense shotguns:
the emphasis was added by me.
While I personally think buck shot is a bit pricey and a little bit over the top, the rest is pretty much spot on.
/edit the target pictured in the post above was shot at 25 yards, in a self sefense type situation, your not going to be shooting much more than 25 FEET. Also, if you shoot somebody 25 yards away, you will most likely be doing some prison time for it.

That was in reference to an extreme military or law enforcement application of the Mossberg, not a civilian one. Although..............

Years ago I read about effective shot loads vs. the ranges of engagement during the Viet Nam war. The conclusion was that out to ~10 yards, #7 1/2 or #8 field loads (standard dove & quail) were as effective as #00-#4 buckshot. It was only at ranges greater than those, that the larger diameter pellets had an advantage which supports what you are saying.

I cant deactivate the safety on my reminton while maintaining my firing grip...

Thanks guys for all the replies and advice. I will remember what you
have said. I hope I don't need to have a room cleaning event but if I
ever do I would hope you would be on my side. (I always think about that
town in Florida? where everyone in the town was required to have a
weapon in their homes. Crime reached a new low in the town I hear.)Ho-Rah!

I changed the safety button on mine to an extended version from Choate Machine & Tool. It sticks out farther on the "SAFE" side so you can get more leverage to push it over to "FIRE" with your finger tip. It might make the same difference for you.

nah, I'm straight, besides theres other well documented reasons not to get a remington as a home defense gun. The rough shape of chambers being shipped from the facftory being the most prevalent one, only pump action I've ever had jam :|


it's easy enough to fix, but as far as I am concerned, I should'nt have to.

Ziadel, it almost sounds like you're saying the 870 as a crappy gun.

Geez.

First it was the FAL vs. G3 now it's the 500 vs. 870 ... are you just trying to bait folks like me out to flame? :p (BTW - thx again for the last PM).

I prefer the 870 ...
I don't like the way a Moss 500 rattles when shaken ... The Rem 870 has a tighter/smoother action.

Rattling doesn't translate to unreliable, it's more a matter of personal taste because both guns will last.

If I wanted to be a technicality twat I could say that the rattling is as hazardous as loose change and housekeys in a tactical situation... lol.

The Moss 500 has a plastic triggerguard and safety button ... that just turns me off to no end. Apparently the military did have problems with safties breaking - hence the development of the 590A1 with metal parts instead. But it's not really an issue because the US dumped the Mossberg for the Benelli M4 Super 90.

Yes you can purchase metal replacement safety buttons - it's easy enough to fix, but as far as I am concerned, I should'nt have to.

Forend-mounted Surefire weapon lights are indespensible for the defense carbine and shotgun. Surefire makes forend replacements for both the Rem 870 and the Moss 500 ... the only difference is that, if you have a bayonet lug on your Mossberg you have to grind it down to install the light! With the Rem 870 you just swap out the forend.

I can use mag extensions with a Rem 870 - or remove them if necessary. With the Moss 500 you're probably stuck with either a factory standard or long mag since there's a barrel band that loops over top of the mag tube in many 500s.

But the 500 has its advantages, too. You won't go wrong with either gun IMO.

Your turn, ziadel.

Are you sure about that? Can you link to that reference? I've read that some versions of the 870 like the Express have a rough finish & bore, but not the chambers. So, get a used Wingmaster in either hunting or police version. Used they abound and they are still one of the nicest made shotguns around.

Wow, you people seem to think you're going to be broken into several times a year, by the way you talk. The 870 and the 500 will work fine, the only thing anyone should be concerned about is being able to wield it confidently, and to not hurt yourself or others if you ever are unfortunate enough to be caught in a situation where you need to defend yourself.

As for the shot type... I thought the world had been convinced several years ago that bird shot was plenty for home defense.

1: You're not looking to downright kill them, you just want to wound them enough that they are no longer a threat. #9 shot will work fine for that.

2: Typically, if you discharge a firearm in your own home, you might not be liable for wounding/killing someone, but you do have to pay for all the shit you destroy. #9 shot, after passing through a few layers of drywall, doesnt have enough energy to do significant damage to anything. This includes pipe in the wall, and possessions and people on the other side of the wall. You'd feel pretty bad if you dispatched an intruder to find out you wounded a child, or your spouse in the next room.

3. Its cheap, readily available everywhere.

Um, yeah, and i dont want to sound biased, but i've been around people using 870's weekly for upwards of 10 years (shooting trap/skeet), and i have never, ever, ever seen one jam. The occasional misfire, but usually thats due to the cheap ammunition that target shooters use. Not any style, finish, didnt matter how much rust was on there, the thing always fired. Thats what the 870's are known for. If you had one that did, return it.

what about the 590 persuader!?

and the plastic triggerguard issue is a moot point, I think all the remingtons are plastic now too... are'nt they?


and we're leaving out the Wnchester 1300 speed-pumps, those are DAMN fine guns too.

actually, had two that did.

Define "jam"

If the shell didnt eject properly, you didnt pull the slide all the way back.

If the next shell didnt load properly, you probably dont oil/clean the action regularly, or once again, the slide didnt come all the way back.

Googling "remington 870 jams" pretty much yield stuff about parts failing after several thousand rounds are run through them, or user error. In the case of home defense, neither of these should be an issue.

pulled trigger, gun goes bang, pull back on forearm, forearm is stuck forward.

ultimately I took to clearing these malfunctions by holding just the forearm and slamming the butt of the gun on the ground, that usually forced it open.

its rough cut chambers. and don't blame it on ammo either, it did it sporatically with cheap ass trap loads or the really expensive Hevi-Shot. All were new ammo, not old corroded stuff.

95% of the problems on other boards with the remingtons are because of that rough chamber.

it's an easy enough to fix, but it really pissed me off when it happened as I was shooting at geese, so I decided that gun was out for home defense work.


and rattling guns are good, rattling means reliable and just because it rattles doesnt mean its not accurate.

rattling car = clunker
rattling refrigerator = bad condensor coils = junk
rattling bones = dead guy

:hmm:

In fairness I never handled a stock 870 - The ones I've handled came straight from Vangcomp. They do good work on mossbergs, too, but the 870 is their bread-n-butter.

I still don't want a rattling gun. If I have to sweep a structure I keep my keys in a key silencer so they don't rattle, I have no rings on my fingers ... and I'd prefer not to have a gun that rattles. I don't hunt geese.

dude, its really not a problem.

every 1911 thats been made for the goverment has had some rattle to em...

just keeps em going :D

I had bought a beat up Remington 870 and had it fixed it by Wilson Combat. Tis nice, now.

Wilson Combat aka. Scattergun Technologies does good 870 work.

Funny, they don't seem to do any Mossberg work ... and I know it ain't because the Mossberg is already perfect....

Good choice, the 870!

I dunno why wilson don't work on MOssberg's...

I'm gonna ty to get to the bottom of it tho.


but besides that, Bill Wilson is a first class cry baby :lol:

I've shot both, and own a Mossberg 500A. I love my Mossberg. It's never misfired, never jammed. Very accurate, too. I'm not an expert marksman by any stretch, but it's only ever taken one slug to knock down a deer, and one was 120 yards out. It's good with slugs (3" Magnum) and the rifle barrel out to around 90 yards consistently. I shoot clays occasionally, and usually average better than 90% hit. Mine has a "rattly" pump action to it, too. Never been a problem.

A friend of mine owns a Remington 870, and it does shoot nice. Had it jam once, not sure where to point the finger on that, though. It's accurate as well. Hit stuff at 75 yards or so with slugs. His doesn't seem to be as consistent as my Mossberg, but I'm used to mine, too, and obviously, variances between guns may mean something here, too.

in my experience you can hop back and forth between a mossberg and a remington without skipping a beat.