Laser shoots down Mortar Rounds - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

onetime2 · 08-30-2004, 05:15 AM

Impressive bit of news about this system. Hopefully they will be able to enhance the capabilities and deploy it in the near future to protect our troops.

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/laser-04r.html

Quote:

US Army's Tactical High Energy Laser Shoots Down Mortar Rounds

"As the nation's only laser weapon, the THEL testbed has shot down a variety of threats since 2000, showing its versatility by destroying about three dozen targets, ranging from Katyusha rockets to artillery shells and large-caliber rockets, and now mortar threats as well."
Redondo Beach CA (SPX) Aug 27, 2004
The Tactical High Energy Laser, built by Northrop Grumman for the US Army, shot down multiple mortar rounds Aug. 24, proving that laser weapons could be applied on the battlefield to protect against common threats.
In tests representative of actual mortar threat scenarios, the THEL testbed destroyed both single mortar rounds and mortar rounds fired in a salvo at White Sands Missile Range, NM.

The tests were conducted by the Army as part of the Mobile THEL (MTHEL) program. The MTHEL program is the responsibility of the SHORAD Project Office under the U.S. Army's Program Executive Office for Air, Space, and Missile Defense.

The purpose of the MTHEL program is to develop and test the first mobile Directed Energy weapon system capable of detecting, tracking, engaging, and defeating Rockets/Artillery/Mortars (RAM), cruise missiles, short-range ballistic missiles, and unmanned aerial vehicles.

The Army is collaborating with the Israeli Ministry of Defense in the execution of the MTHEL program.

"These successful tests once again prove the versatility of the THEL testbed to counter a wide range of threats, particularly low-tech weapons like mortars," said Patrick Caruana, vice president of Space and Missile Defense for Northrop Grumman Space Technology.

"For the first time, we have a way to protect our forces, and those of our allies, against almost daily mortar attacks. Together with the U.S. Army, we have overcome the technical hurdles and we're ready to move laser weapons onto the battlefield."

As the nation's only laser weapon, the THEL testbed has shot down a variety of threats since 2000, showing its versatility by destroying about three dozen targets, ranging from Katyusha rockets to artillery shells and large-caliber rockets, and now mortar threats as well.

"In the foreseeable future, MTHEL is the only directed energy program we can depend on to counter threats posed by rockets, artillery and mortar rounds," said Joe Shwartz, MTHEL program manager for Northrop Grumman Space Technology.

"The MTHEL prototype, when developed, will put directed energy into the warfighters' hands as early as possible. MTHEL could serve as a pathfinder for the Army to incorporate directed energy into its plans because it offers all the building blocks required to insert speed-of-light technology into the U.S. Army's Future Combat System and Future Force architectures."

The THEL demonstrator was designed, developed and produced by a Northrop Grumman-led team of U.S. and Israeli contractors for the US Space & Missile Defense Command, Huntsville, Ala., and the Israeli Ministry of Defense.

The THEL demonstrator has evolved to the THEL testbed for the MTHEL program.

In addition to Northrop Grumman's Space Technology and Mission Systems sectors, U.S. companies involved in testbed development are Ball Aerospace, Boulder, Colo., and Brashear LP, Pittsburgh, Pa.

Israeli companies that supported THEL ACTD development are Electro-Optic Industries, Ltd., Rehovot; Israel Aircraft Industries, Ltd., Yehud Industrial Zone; RAFAEL, Haifa; and Tadiran, Holon.

MrTuffPaws · 08-30-2004, 06:22 PM

They sure could use it in Iraq.

KirStang · 08-30-2004, 08:22 PM

Wow, that's just awesome. Imagine using that during WWII, when troops rushed in to take a city their path of advance would have been much safer.

As for Iraq, we ought to employ it ASAP. Hear they get mortar attacks alot.

I've also heard that Israel has been using something like this to destroy scuds aimed at them??

onetime2 · 08-31-2004, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirStang

I've also heard that Israel has been using something like this to destroy scuds aimed at them??

You may be thinking of the Patriot missile batteries. Those are impressive in and of themselves but their accuracy has been less than ideal. The Patriots can miss entirely, send the incoming missiles off course, or rain down the debris over the target. These lasers seem to be a bit better with less chance of inflicting damage on friendlies themselves.

Agree that it's awesome. The advances made even since the first Gulf War are incredible.

tropple · 08-31-2004, 09:50 AM

Hot damn!

It almost sounds like the AD system in Hammer's Slammers!

tropple · 09-07-2004, 03:09 AM

Ahem... yeah, yeah. thanks for wanting us to all get along. We'll get along just fine with anyone who isn't trying murdering us.

Now, about that laser AA.

I wouldn't exoect to see it deployed for a decade, at least.

There is a kick-ass mm wavelength radar system that tracks multiple bullet paths to identify where the shooter is located. It was developed to locate sniper and ambushers, particularly in urban areas. It works like a champ but has not been brought into the field. I first saw it about 6-7 years ago.

Where does this great stuff go? Is it sitting next to the ark of the covenant?

analog · 09-07-2004, 09:16 AM

EDIT: The following no longer applies directly, as the post I am talking about has been removed pending an edit. This is good information regardless...

Please stay on topic, people. This thread has just started and we're already wandering away from the main point here. If you want to muse about US, there are about 500 other threads on the US vs. the world's opinion of it- and they're pretty much all in Tilted Politics. Find one that fits you and post there, not in any random thread that appears.

We get it, you have an opinion, put it where it belongs.

Thank you.

-analog.

DelayedReaction · 09-07-2004, 11:16 AM

I wonder how portable it is? Ideally it should at least fit on a hummer or something smaller; anything larger would probably not work for the random-ambush nature of the current conflict. I also wonder how it does in less than ideal conditions... say in the middle of a city?

Schwan · 09-07-2004, 11:33 AM

That's great news, but then again I can think of a problem. Mortars are used these days days mainly against the civilians. Sarajevo, Gaza Strip, Iraq - all of these places have shown how deadly mortar attacks on civilian targets can be. I'm sure the system will benefit the military in combat, but I can't fantom it beeing easily deployable so that it could protect major urban areas. I hope this will gu further and I hope this isn;t the last time in 10 years that we heard about this project.

tropple · 09-07-2004, 02:09 PM

The radar system would have fit into a half a garbage can stuck on top of a hummer. Of course, the display portion would be in the crew compartment.

Defense Update shows an artist's rendition of the system in something the size of a small semi (http://www.defense-update.com/news/MTHEL.htm). The test system pic I saw looks signifigantly smaller, but did not show the supporting equipment (power/control/cooling).

More crap to cart around than a patriot battery, but nicer to have if you need to protect a large troop concentration or similar fixed-location target (airfield, hospital, schoolhouse).

loosenukes · 09-22-2004, 05:36 PM

Even if it is the size of a small semi, tons could still be lugged around within the ranks of advancing troops or vehicles. I'm sure the range is as far as line of sight will carry the laser, so it wouldn't have to be at the front lines.

tropple · 09-23-2004, 03:07 AM

You've never worked hills before, have you ;-)

There is still a minimum time requirement to acquire, aim and fire.

Working in hills chops down the time between the round popping up and again dropping below your horizon. It's not an ideal system, though better than nothing.

Also, fog, dust, rain, etc., would all degrade the operation of the laser, if not the radar.

gcbrowni · 09-23-2004, 06:58 AM

Not to minimize the impact of this, but I seem to remember a lot of follow-up articles in the 80's and 90's exposing some strangness in the testing methods of the armed forces. It would be interesting to see some data that's a little more raw.

I wonder what it uses to generate and store energy, and what the cycle time of the laser is? Giant capacitors? You think it just heats up the round enough to destory it or somehow burns a hole in it?

tropple · 09-23-2004, 07:59 AM

I'd be interested in know how it destroys the round, as well.

Seems like it'd be pretty cool to mount in an ac-130....

gcbrowni · 09-23-2004, 02:53 PM

It looks like it heats up the target. I saw some pictures; it looks like a giant spotlight.

Here's some more information about it:

A fire control radar positioned near the hostile zone scans for threats. Once detected, the target's trajectory is tracked and a pointer-tracker is locked onto the target. Once locked in, a high-energy deuterium-fluoride laser beam is trained upon the target. The beam is only a few inches in diameter, but can heat the rocket's steel shell until the missile or shell warhead explodes. The system uses replaceable chemical charges to provide the power; it costs approximately $3,000 to fire (making it much cheaper than other anti-missile systems).

08-31-2004, 09:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	Hot damn! It almost sounds like the AD system in Hammer's Slammers! __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-07-2004, 03:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	Ahem... yeah, yeah. thanks for wanting us to all get along. We'll get along just fine with anyone who isn't trying murdering us. Now, about that laser AA. I wouldn't exoect to see it deployed for a decade, at least. There is a kick-ass mm wavelength radar system that tracks multiple bullet paths to identify where the shooter is located. It was developed to locate sniper and ambushers, particularly in urban areas. It works like a champ but has not been brought into the field. I first saw it about 6-7 years ago. Where does this great stuff go? Is it sitting next to the ark of the covenant? __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-07-2004, 09:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
analog Banned	EDIT: The following no longer applies directly, as the post I am talking about has been removed pending an edit. This is good information regardless... Please stay on topic, people. This thread has just started and we're already wandering away from the main point here. If you want to muse about US, there are about 500 other threads on the US vs. the world's opinion of it- and they're pretty much all in Tilted Politics. Find one that fits you and post there, not in any random thread that appears. We get it, you have an opinion, put it where it belongs. Thank you. -analog. Last edited by analog; 09-07-2004 at 09:23 AM..

09-07-2004, 11:16 AM	#8 (permalink)
DelayedReaction BFG Builder Location: University of Maryland	I wonder how portable it is? Ideally it should at least fit on a hummer or something smaller; anything larger would probably not work for the random-ambush nature of the current conflict. I also wonder how it does in less than ideal conditions... say in the middle of a city? __________________ If ignorance is bliss, you must be having an orgasm.

09-07-2004, 02:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	The radar system would have fit into a half a garbage can stuck on top of a hummer. Of course, the display portion would be in the crew compartment. Defense Update shows an artist's rendition of the system in something the size of a small semi (http://www.defense-update.com/news/MTHEL.htm). The test system pic I saw looks signifigantly smaller, but did not show the supporting equipment (power/control/cooling). More crap to cart around than a patriot battery, but nicer to have if you need to protect a large troop concentration or similar fixed-location target (airfield, hospital, schoolhouse). __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

08-30-2004, 06:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
MrTuffPaws Addict Location: NorCal	They sure could use it in Iraq.

08-30-2004, 08:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
KirStang Future Bureaucrat	Wow, that's just awesome. Imagine using that during WWII, when troops rushed in to take a city their path of advance would have been much safer. As for Iraq, we ought to employ it ASAP. Hear they get mortar attacks alot. I've also heard that Israel has been using something like this to destroy scuds aimed at them??

09-07-2004, 11:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
Schwan A boy and his dog Location: EU!	That's great news, but then again I can think of a problem. Mortars are used these days days mainly against the civilians. Sarajevo, Gaza Strip, Iraq - all of these places have shown how deadly mortar attacks on civilian targets can be. I'm sure the system will benefit the military in combat, but I can't fantom it beeing easily deployable so that it could protect major urban areas. I hope this will gu further and I hope this isn;t the last time in 10 years that we heard about this project.

09-22-2004, 05:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
loosenukes Upright	Even if it is the size of a small semi, tons could still be lugged around within the ranks of advancing troops or vehicles. I'm sure the range is as far as line of sight will carry the laser, so it wouldn't have to be at the front lines.

09-23-2004, 03:07 AM	#12 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	You've never worked hills before, have you ;-) There is still a minimum time requirement to acquire, aim and fire. Working in hills chops down the time between the round popping up and again dropping below your horizon. It's not an ideal system, though better than nothing. Also, fog, dust, rain, etc., would all degrade the operation of the laser, if not the radar. __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-23-2004, 06:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
gcbrowni Tilted Location: Indianapolis	Not to minimize the impact of this, but I seem to remember a lot of follow-up articles in the 80's and 90's exposing some strangness in the testing methods of the armed forces. It would be interesting to see some data that's a little more raw. I wonder what it uses to generate and store energy, and what the cycle time of the laser is? Giant capacitors? You think it just heats up the round enough to destory it or somehow burns a hole in it? __________________ From the day of his birth Gilgamesh was called by name.

09-23-2004, 07:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	I'd be interested in know how it destroys the round, as well. Seems like it'd be pretty cool to mount in an ac-130.... __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-23-2004, 02:53 PM	#15 (permalink)
gcbrowni Tilted Location: Indianapolis	It looks like it heats up the target. I saw some pictures; it looks like a giant spotlight. Here's some more information about it: A fire control radar positioned near the hostile zone scans for threats. Once detected, the target's trajectory is tracked and a pointer-tracker is locked onto the target. Once locked in, a high-energy deuterium-fluoride laser beam is trained upon the target. The beam is only a few inches in diameter, but can heat the rocket's steel shell until the missile or shell warhead explodes. The system uses replaceable chemical charges to provide the power; it costs approximately $3,000 to fire (making it much cheaper than other anti-missile systems). __________________ From the day of his birth Gilgamesh was called by name.