Old-fashioned revolvers

[digitdean]

I've just watched the Sergio Leone Dollars trilogy and I want to know the best place to obtain the old-style (1860's) revolvers used in the movies. Any help would be appreciated.

[Lebell]

I confess I am not as up on that vintage, but if memory serves, all pistols that old were cap and ball, the cartridge being a few years away.

Check out Navy Arms for repros:

http://www.navyarms.com/html/products.html

[MrTuffPaws]

Not familiar with the film, but if you want cap and ball guns, try the phone book and look for a gun store that specializes in cowboy shooting.

You can also try www.gunbroker.com They have everything.

[skinnymofo]

i recently got a cabelas catalog book and they had several old time revolvers in there

[Fire]

actualy, a gun mag (cannot remember which one) did a piece not long ago on the dollars guns, stating that they were conversion revolvers, as cartridge arms were available in the 1860's, but not used by the military as they were too expensive and "high Tech" to be quickly adopted- the just of the article was that the producer of the film did his research, and that it was common for private persons to have already switched over to the cartridge revolvers, and that it was fairly common to have a gunsmith redo an old navy revolver to use metalic cartridges, as the military stuff was built heavy enough to handle "hotter " newer loads. I too am, a fan of the trilogy, and of old timey looking revolvers- umberti makes some good ones, and cimarron does too- some high end companies like ruger also make a few old itemy style guns as well

[Lebell]

Originally posted by Fire
actualy, a gun mag (cannot remember which one) did a piece not long ago on the dollars guns, stating that they were conversion revolvers, as cartridge arms were available in the 1860's, but not used by the military as they were too expensive and "high Tech" to be quickly adopted- the just of the article was that the producer of the film did his research, and that it was common for private persons to have already switched over to the cartridge revolvers, and that it was fairly common to have a gunsmith redo an old navy revolver to use metalic cartridges, as the military stuff was built heavy enough to handle "hotter " newer loads. I too am, a fan of the trilogy, and of old timey looking revolvers- umberti makes some good ones, and cimarron does too- some high end companies like ruger also make a few old itemy style guns as well

Thanks for that info.

That would be a good article to read.

[Fire]

yeah- checked my collection of mags and cannot seem to find it- realy annoying me, but it was one that regularly features pics of a guy in period clothes, maybe the writer? and he strongly resembles kenny rogers- I remember the first pic on the first page of the article has him calmly loading a revolver with brass cartridge ammo while this other guy, obviously somewhat frustrated, tries to load a blackpowder gun- I think it was one of the larger publications, not one specializing in cowboy action or old west reenacting... damn, this is driving me nuts

[Moonduck]

Correct, they are conversions. It was not an uncommon practice. When you had to rely on your sidearm quite a bit, you tend to be resistant to the idea of change. It was also cheaper to convert an existing cap-n-ball to cartridge than it was to buy a new cartridge gun.

Said conversion work would be prohibitively expensive these days, not to mention possibly illegal. Black powder guns are almost unregulated in many states. Converting one to fire cartridges would change its' status and thus constitute a possibel breach of the draconian Federal firearms statutes

[iamnormal]

Don't confuse the black powder cartridges with modern smokeless powder cartridges.
Or loss of life or limb could happen.

[Moonduck]

Never said anything about black powder or smokeless either way. There are, however, a coupla companies that load smokeless to black powder pressures for use in guns like these, as well as some who load black powder cartridges for Cowboy Action Shooting.

I would hazard to guess that anyone looking at a conversion gun would be bright enough to think about what they plan to put through it.

[iamnormal]

I'm just trying to make sure anyone reading this thread knows the difference in the cartridges. I am sorry you don't want to help make the world a safer place.

[Lebell]

I doubt ANYONE here doesn't want safer shooting, iamnormal.

[ggadgit]

Here is an old fashioned repo revolver I've been wantong for a long time, a LeMat revolver


History of the LeMat Revolver.

In the 1850s, the new rapid fire revolver pistol gained increasing attention from farsighted military officers. Not enough attention, as neither the revolver, nor Oliver Winchester's repeating Henry rifle were used much during the war. However, those few officers who saw the advantage of a repeating pistol had been busy negotiating deals in hopes of persuading the Army to adopt these as standard sidearms.

One such negotation took place between Major P.T. Beauregard ,then of the US Army, and Jean Alexander Francois LeMat, a French gun designer, and, by coincidence (or maybe not), Major Beauregard's son in law. When war broke out, Beauregard became a general in the Confederate army, and sought to have the LeMat revolver produced in Europe and sent past the blockade.

Unlike the Colt revolver, with it's cylinder lock on the outside of the cylinder, LeMat used a pin at the back of the cylinder to lock it in place. Not as rugged as Colt, but Colt held the patent on that design, and LeMat had to make do as best he could. To increase the utility of the revolver for military use, LeMat built a 9 shot cylinder - three extra shots. He chambered it for 40 caliber, giving it a bit more punch than the .36 bullet used by Colt, though this did make getting bullets a bit more difficult.

And then there was the 10th shot, for which the LeMat revolver is most often remembered. LeMat put a second barrel under the normal 44 caliber barrel, and had the cylinder revolve around that barrel. The second barrel was a single shot .65 caliber 18 gauge shotgun. Short, very little range, but up close, it was a nasty weapon, effectively a sawed off shotgun hidden in the middle of the pistol. It was your backup, or desperation shot. The shogun barrel was fired by a primer that sat directly under the hammer. Flip a lever down on the end of the hammer, and the hammer will strike the shotgun primer instead of a cylinder primer. For this reason, this type of pistol in general is referred to as a grapeshot revolver. As the photos show, the LeMat is also remembered for it's unusual appearance.

LeMat revolvers were built first in France, and then farmed out to gunmakers in England, due to quality problems with the French built models. BSA is reported to have been the primary contractor. About 2,500 were thought to have actually made it past the blockade and into the CSA army's hands.

Today, an original LeMat revolver commands a high price: $20k - $40k. Many have lost their loading levers, due to one of the LeMat's shortcomings. If not properly secured, the loading lever can flip up from the recoil of the pistol. It's piston will be pushed into a cylinder, and the pistol will jam when the shooter cocks it for the next shot. Many a soldier must have wrenched the loading lever off in the heat of battle, when trying to clear this jam.

An interesting pistol. Not the most accurate, nor the most rugged. Prone to hanging up if you're careless in rapid cocking. And the shotgun barrel is as much a novelty as an effective weapon

[Fremen]

The LeMat sure is an interesting looking revolver.
Except for the underbarrel, it reminds me a little bit of a Webley.

[Asuka{eve}]

This very nice gun. Ive never heard of it till now.

[Fire]

speaking of the conversion- midway arms now offers drop in conversion cylinders for black powder to metalic cartridge - prices range from 200 - 400 and they claim that it requires no FFL - wonder about the legal ramnifications, as did moonduck- seems neat though