list your top 5 favorite conceal carry weapons
 

I am in the market for a handgun that will be used during my conceal carry class and afterwards. I have been looking at the following guns.
1. 9000s beretta in .40
2. S&W j frame .38 special hammerless
3. 8040 minicougar beretta .40
4.8040 cougar f beretta .40
5.Sigarms p229 in .40

Tell me what your top 5 are

1. S&W J-frame hammerless, M640 specifically. Not the most powerful, or most capacity, but easily concealable, rugged, and acceptable accuracy
2. Glock 19 - a tad big, but relatively slim, well rounded, great capacity
3. Colt Commander - proven design, accurate, various solid loads
4. S&W 3913 - good design, fairly slim, accurate, reliable
5. Seecamp's .32acp nose gun - Weak round, but an undeniably concealable package and great manufacture

Too many guns marketed as conceable are not. Most staggered magazine autos are horrible for concealment purposes as the butt of the gun is simply too wide. I personally look to reliability first, then size second, and shooting characteristics third. A powerful gun is useless if it does not conceal well, and a solid shooting and concealable gun is useless for carry if it is not dead reliable.

My list represents two guns I own and thus trust, the first two, two that I respect and have fired, 3 & 4, and one that I have handled and know the reputation of. The Seecamp would not make it on my list due to its' anemic performance if it were not for the fact that some folk may have a valid need for a truly small gun.

Taurus Titanium .38

If it is strictly a concealed carry gun there is no other choice. :D

battle axe
sword
long knives
nicely balanced razor blades that are great for throwing
barehands ;)

Glock 26
Glock 27
Glock 29
Glock 30
Glock 33

my TOP FIVE, ALL TIME FAVOURITE CONCEALED WEAPONS are...

fists (with rings).
knees.
forehead (although not easy to conceal).
teeth.
and keys.

I think a glock 27 is the way to go not to big to hold not too small to get away from you when you shoot.

carrying guns is asking for more trouble than it's worth in my opinion.

maybe it's the 15 years of martials training talking, but I think I can respond with my hands and feet faster than I could draw a gun from a concealed holster.

once in awhile I'll carry some throwing knives if I'm in an exceptionally dangerous neighbourhood... but that's only for if they're getting away from me ;) heh heh joking

great weapon = hot cup of coffee

I would hope that 15 years of martial arts training has taught you that you are not faster than a bullet...

You should first decide how you are going to carry. If it is in a fanny pack or somethong along that line or if you are going to holster inside the waist as the cylinder of a revolver will cause extra bulk and is limited to 6 rounds with slow reload. Size of your hands is also a factor. I have an average hand size and dress business casual always so I carry in my front pocket mosy often. even though yo appear to be leaning to .40 s&w by your list. The practice rounds get expensive and if you hit what your aiming at 9mm is more than adequate with a good personal protection ammo being around 370 ft/lbs of energy /knockdown
I carry a KAHR arms P9 9mm auto pistol ( available in S&W .40 cal) as a pocket gun. I like it but it can be hard on the hands aftert 200 rounds of practice ( especially with +p+1500 fps Cor Bon loads 400 lbs /ft of energy). I would choose a glock 26 or 27 over the Sig for shear dependability in a pinch ( thats why nearly ALL cops have glocks, it'll never let you down.) The sig is a great gun but slightly more finicky. Both the Kahr and the Glock are hammerless and have no additional safety which must be considered, but ultimae saftey belongs to the carrier. Keltec makes a 22 ounce .9" wide 9mm but it has about 11-12 pounds of trigger pull vs 5-6lbs on the glock and 8lbs on the Kahr ( especially important on the 2nd shot ). Kimber has an out standing compact series of .45's and even have some that can be ordered with .40 s&w( but then a 45 is a great gun with excellent knockdown.
Final suggestion is to go to a range that has a gun rental ( if there is one around you) and shoot them all, it is worth the $ up front to know what you are comfortable, after all it's all about being comfortable and confident with your weapon. That is what will make you shoot well and shooting well is more important than shooting big. otherwise you will end up like me with 8 different guns. I love em all but it does get expensive.
Good luck.

i see someone likes their glocks

Beretta 92 Compact-L
Benchmade Auto Axis
Bare Hands
Knees
Teeth

:icare:

I'm a big guy so I can easily conceal larger handguns. With that said my choices (only from the guns I own) are:

1911-A1 Fullsize (carried IWB)
Taurus Millennium .45 SS Slide (also carried IWB)

Mostly it depends on the weather. If I'm carrying in jacket weather I can use the 1911, if it's only shirt weather I can still carry the Taurus. I prefer the 1911 just because I'm more proficient with the single action trigger as opposed to DAO, but I can hit what I'm aiming at with either. Someday I'd like to add a .357 snub-nose to my carry collection, but since I just got married and bought a house I don't see that happening any time soon.

If the person has a gun out and ready to fire at you I would hope that your fire arm training has taught you that your concealed weapons is not faster than a bullet.

In my opinion, martial arts training is more valuable than your firearm in a mugging or rape situation.

I'll be sure to tell that to my 88 year old grandmother or 65 year old mother.

We can do a test. First, I put a paint ball gun to your head and you put one in a holster where ever you like on your person. I say give me your wallet, suck my dick, something like that, in turn you try to pull your gun on me. Lets see who gets the welt. Next, you put the gun to my head and I will use my martial arts to disarm you before you can shoot me.

Now maybe I am using a bad example so if you would like to post an example of when your gun is needed and could be used successfully and I will see how my martial arts will compare.

Lol and you think your 88-year-old grandmother can pull a gun on me quicker than I can take her purse and knock her ass out? Come on, let’s use some common since.

Yes, some common sense would be great.

Sure, if my gun is in my pocket and Bruce Lee gets the drop on me, I'll probably get taken out.

How likely is this to happen?

Common sense tells you that the vast majority ofl criminals are NOT smart and/or are martial arts experts and that an aware person can usually spot trouble coming in plenty of time to draw and fire.

Secondly, your statement is spurious since your whole position is that people are better off learning martial arts than having concealed weapons. Obviously this arguement is next to useless for the aged and physically infirm. (Mr. Myagi again notwithstanding).

This has been rehashed countless times.

1 - It is far easier to learn to use a gun that it is to learn a martial art. I would have no trouble placeing bets on a fight between someone with an hour of firearms training against a person with 20 years of [insert random martial art here].

2 - I can always shoot you faster that you can disarm me.

Glad we both agree.

Where else would your gun be if you got mugged or attacked? Do you walk around with it in your hand? If so then I agree you can probably draw your weapon before you are attacked.

Not likely

Exactly. Criminals look for the easy way to do things. Like getting a gun. I never said the criminal would be the one with martial arts skills or proper gun training for that matter. Please document cases where people new trouble was coming and drew their gun before hand. Also document whether or not they were arrested for pulling a gun in public for no reason. You cannot draw your weapon without do cause.

The aged and physically infirm could not draw a weapon fast enough to stop a mugging either. Which is why whistles, alarms, and pepper spray on key chains work so well.



I guarantee you that if you are within distance to mug me I can disarm you before you could shoot me. I also guarantee if I was mugging you at gunpoint I could blow you away before you could draw your concealed weapon.

Keep your guns because they make you "feel" safer but do not argue that martial arts training is not far superior at protecting yourself than a hand held weapon.

Use logic. A hand held weapon that could be taken away from you or your body as a weapon. Which is better, more efficient, and easier to conceal.

I would just like you to show me some examples of ways you can use your weapon. I am not someone here trying to get into an argument about if you should have guns or not. I only posted to reply to the comment


I know you gun owners are very defensive about your guns. That is fine. I just want you to understand that a gun is not always the answer and will not protect you in most real life situations. Crafting your body into something that will cause most attackers to think twice about attacking you and then having the skill to follow through just in case someone does is the key. I know you keep bringing up elderly and stuff but really I can't picture an 80 year old woman getting a pistol out of her purse in enough time to do anything with it.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from.

http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles/165476.pdf


Nonsense. With a gun I can choose the range at which the encounter occurs. With your body you cannot. Plus, you discount the fact that I have been properly and extensively trained in the use of a handgun in tactical situations. A large part of that is point shooting, weapons retention, and use of a pistol in close combat. Granted, most people do not have that level of training, but it isn't very hard to shoot someone off of your pistol...
If you had the drop on me I would not be foolish enough to try.

I love how smug you people get when someone challenges your sacred cow.

Again martial arts training takes years, is not terribly effective against a much larger attacker or multiple opponents, and is useless against an attacker at range.
Better - Gun
Efficient - Gun
Concealable - Body

One out of three isn't that bad...

hehe did you read the link you provided? One, there are no examples of gun use as a means of defending ones self, two it states that most of the surveys done were done by phone. The person was asked if they had used their weapon in a defensive way in the last year. With a phone conversation there was no way to know whether or not the victim who drew their weapon started the fight or was actually a victim at all.

Maybe you do not understand what I am saying. If you are the attacker then yeah, you can choose the distance. I am not talking about using a gun to attack people. I am talking about some guy pushes you into an ally at gunpoint and he wants your fucking wallet. How is your gun going to save you?

I can see how your gun can be useful if you hear someone in your back yard and want to scare him or her off. The visual effect of you holding a gun is great. Works well. I am not arguing that.


Now if someone is mugging you, they usually are within arms distance because they want you to hand them stuff, they want to pat you down and see if you got anything they want. So, when they pat you down they get a new gun. This is what I am talking about. Can you comment on this please?

No, the survey deals with that specifically. Reread the document. The questions were specifically worded to remove such false positive that were included in the Kleck report.
It's not. But chances are he isn't going to choose a person with a gun to go after, just in case that person is stupid enough to try to go for his weapon. Petty thieves do not go looking for confrontation, they can tell an armed person from a victim a mile away.
Why would you let someone get that close to you?

Criminals do not pat you down, they take your wallet and run. In the event that they did pat you down, let them have the gun, it's not worth your life.

I'm with dark. Most muggers don't go in with the thinking of killing someone. They normally use teh gun as force to get you to give them your shit. If you're in distance to give them your wallet, and you know martial arts, you could easily get the gun from him before he can do anything.

Try something for me. Find a ten year old kid, give him a cap gun. Now, stand anywhere within arms reach of him and see if you can get it away from him without hearing a bang.

If you hear one, then there is a bullet going somewhere, maybe into you, maybe not. You willing to take the chance?

Plus nobody has yet addressed the fact that it takes many years to become even passably proficient at any martial art, while it take a few weeks to achieve the same level of skill with a gun.

I have to go with Debaser's pick, a nice reliable no BS revolver... would prefer more power, but I can only handle so much in a small package.

Pricewise the Taurus seems really expensive for a revolver.

The bang would go into his (the attacks) lower body.

I teach a class that is 6 weeks long that goes over these techniques at the local community college. It takes a long time to make martial arts part of your life. It does not take that long to learn the basics that can save your life.

If you are telling someone with six weeks of college martial arts that he stands a snowballs chance in hell is disarming an attacker with a gun, you are signing their death warrant should they ever be in such a situation.

The only time you should ever attempt to disarm someone of a gun is if it is a sure shoot situation.

DarkBlack: Please stop threadjacking me. I want to know what people carry for conceal carry weapons. Please post my hands and body and go to politics.

You know what they say about teachers. :D

I agree.

Darkblack, if you insist on arguing your point, please post a new thread in "Politics".

Why would this go in politics? I feel martial arts are a better concealed weapon than a gun. This topic is about concealed weapons. It was posted that a gun is a better weapon than martial arts and I am protesting that. So are we aloud to tell people not to post to our threads? If so there are a few people I would like to keep off some of my topics also.


~edit~ thought about it and I will just move on. Pretty silly for me to fight to talk to people that do not want to talk to me hehe.

Thanks for the discussion.

stilleto

good points Darkblack to each his own. I'm a Retired cop with a blackbelt and I carry a Colt 45 officers model. pretty hard to defend yourself against a driveby or distant enemy which is what is often faced in today's hard world no matter what your skill set is. to each their own but like the old saying
goes

God made all men in his image
but Sam Colt made them equal

I'm currently carrying a Kel-tec p11, it's a semi auto 9mm, fully loaded the gun weighs 20 oz., it holds 10+1 rounds, and comes from the factory with MecGar magazines. It is Double action only, and it has a 9lb trigger pull. I hate the trigger, but considering that the long heavy trigger pull is it's safety, I deal with it. I have put probably 1000 rounds through this gun and have had 0 FTF's and zero FTE's. Should something go wrong with this gun, Kel-tec has a lifetime warranty on their pistols, and their customer service is well known to be outstanding. Yep...I'm sold on this gun for a carry gun. Keep in mind it's no target pistol, but it does what it's designed to do, very well.
Having said all that, I recently purchased a Kimber Custom Classic, full size .45 ACP and have been carrying that occasionally too, but it's difficult at best to conceal a full size 45 auto.

I don't have any favourites because I cannot and shall not carry unless I somehow become a dual citizen or something. I do have a question though: what about the PP or PPK? I know most of you aren't fans of 7.92 mm or whichever other calibres they come in, but if you shot someone two or three times centre mass with that calibre, they'd still go down wouldn't they?

I have a good friend with a concealed carry permit that bought the PPK- and he returned it, and swears he will never get another- accurate, but very very finnicky on what brand of ammo you use- some quite reputable brands would just not feed- also had some minior ergonomics problems, again because the gun was designed with specific and very tight parameters in mind- wound up getting a ppk clone, for much less, and is thrilled with it, feeds ammo well, almost as accurate as the walther model- do some research though as clones Varry wildly, and it does have to be well made to be worth a damn.....

I should also note that he originally bought 2 ppk's , both walthers, one for the wife, one for him, and had this problem with both of them........so it wasn't a one bad gun situation....

1. Surefire 120 lumen flashlight - palmsized and very handy even in broad daylight
2. Benchmade mini-AFCK - this is a well made, practical folding knife. Can be deployed with one hand. Or can be an effective striking tool even when closed.
3. Glock 23 .40 - great gun in a pinch. Got mine in arm's reach
4. My defensive handgun training from Frontsight in Nevada - priceless information in every 4 day class I've taken.
5. Comfy shoes for running like hell
6. My dog

BTW. Not to flog a dead horse but I have to add my views on the whole "martial arts" issue.
It's a terrible mistake to underestimate the "common" street punk. The most experienced martial artists know that no 2 street-fights are alike. I have studied different styles of marial arts for years and have yet to meet an expert who thinks he/she could take a knife or gun away from an opponent every time.
I'm not saying that martial arts is useless, but it doesn't make anyone a superman. I have studied martial arts in the past fanatically from some very good instructors - But if someone posed an imminent threat to my family or loved ones I'd shoot that person.

For concealed carry, I use a Glock 27. Fits inside the pants and is easy to cover up. The gun also has a very nice feel to it. I also carry a Glock 22, but I actually shoot better with the 27 til 25 yards.

1) My awareness / brain
2) A good compact 1911 (personal pref based on performance, ammo, familiarity, size, shape, weight, compatability with other holsters, availability of speciality holsters etc)
3) PPK with the right ammo
4) Black Widow 22 mag if deep concealment was priority 1

/agree debaser

Heh, I'd assumed both that the poster was asking for concealed firearms, and that anyone reading this thread would assume such things as running shoes, a good flashlight, and awareness. Those all go without saying IMO.

As to MA vs CCW, MA types get defensive about MA as soon as firearms people get defensive about guns. The smart move is to learn from both disciplines. The question about the gun to head was particularly pointed. The options were to go for your gun, or to use MA to disarm the attacker and then assumedly thrash him. I'd rather use a good disarm drill (clear the body, control the weapon, remove the weapon) and then draw my CCW and control the situation after.

Combined Arms, it ain't just a military concept.

(As an aside, if you carry, a bit of HtH training is a must. NOTHING will save your life faster in a serious tussle more assuredly than even some minimal retention techniques. It may not seem easy for you to disarm someone else, but it doesn't seem so hard for them to disarm you, if you know what I mean. A bit of retention training is hugely assistive should you get into a close-range confrontation. Let's face it, your gun is worse than useless if it is in the bad guy's hands.)

M1911-A1 with Speer 230gr Gold-Dot's
and 2 spare mags..

1. glock 19
2. j-frame revolover (340pd)

that's about it.

as an alternative to the ppk/s - consider a makarov in 9x18. more power in basically the same package, and very reliable.

Debaser and Lebell... you forget ninjas.

In regards to the original thread, I can't speak to carrying a handgun concealed, as I never have. For hand to hand weapons, though:
1) Anything nearby (stick, trash can, child, etc)
2) Small, double sided, straight sheath knife. It comes out quick and it's easy to use. Something like the one on the left here:
http://www.randallknives.com/images/...litary2-sm.jpg
3) A smaller stiletto, or a boot knife... like the one on the right in that image. Only reason I prefer the thumb knife mentioned before is that it's easier to conceal.
4) My keys, or a pen that I always carry. They'll do in a pinch.
And of course,
5) My ninja skills. But that pretty much goes without saying.

Ya know, for a "concealed in plain sight" weapon, I've always been partial to trucks. There's not a whole lot my "Deuce and a Half" can't extracate me from....

Given a choice between a .45 or a .380 or a .32 (7.92 is "8mm mauser", a full-sized rifle round that'd break your wrist in a handgun) I'd take the .45. Given a choice between a .380 or a .32 and a rock or bare hands, I'd take the .32 or .380.

Absolutely correct.
If you attend a professional defensive handgun course (not just the local range course) - you are taught close quarters, contact shooting and gun retention along with everything else.

I've seen the diameter listed as 7.92 though (maybe 7.92 short?).

Glock 27. Don't always carry it, but I almost always have a knife on me.

One thing that 7 years of martial arts taught me is not to let a potential threat get too close. That, and I'm not interested in trying to disarm a knife-wielding person.

I have drawn on someone ONCE. He was mouthy, thereby giving me plenty of warning before he got too close. By the time he did, and he saw my Glock, he shut up and went away. I like that a lot better than if I'd actually had to fire.

OTOH, In regard to martial arts, some of the baddest guys I know look slim to the point of making you think they're wimps. No matter how much training they have, their appearance isn't going to scare anyone away.

Glock 19 all the way. It is light and with the right concealed hoster no one can tell you have one. I carry one everyday. You get used to it real fast. Glock 26 or any baby Glocks are good to, but I think are hard to shoot since I have such large hands.

For holsters use a Galco there is no better option.

Here are 2 good options for everyday use
http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterG3.asp...=2678&GunID=47 (Slob look, no shirt tucked in or sweatshirt, etc.)

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterG3.asp...=2102&GunID=47 (Dress pants or suit with shirt tucked in)

Wow... I couldnt come up with five... in real life when Im out on the street the only weapon I have is my house/car keys.... which isnt much, but if someone attacks me I could hurl them in their face (not much good against a gun, but not many people in Ipswich carry guns), or else wrap the keys around my fist and throw a punch... I've never done that in though!

If I could choose any gun to be my conceal and carry weapon, assuming it was legal and I felt I needed a gun (like if I was camping out or something and needed protection from wild animals, or lived in a really bad area maybe)....

I'd have a IMI Jericho 941

top 5 conceled carry guns.

1. Bersa thunder .380 (what can I say its a nice gun)
2. Ruger sp101 hammerless
3. sig 229
4. Ruger p89
5. Desert eagle .50 (ok it would be concelable on say SHAQ!)

I trained in combat Karate for years and consider that to be my best weapon, mainly because it builds up your body and you also learn how to throw off the vibe of being tough.

Otherwise, I love my cheap little Tombraider switchblade. Short enough to still be considered a "legal" pocket knife but super quick to pull out of a pocket and open up for maximum effect.

http://www.bladeplay.com/images/kniv...blue_thumb.jpg

I'm not a Secret Ninja Master. Consequently, I carry guns.

7.92 "short" is the 7.92 Kurz round for the Sturmgewehr Stg44/MP43-45 series of weapons. That's an entirely different kettle of fish from the standard 7.92 patronen...

1. Glock 19, Trijicon sights, 3.5 pound trigger pull.
2. CZ-75, non-import, produced prior to 1990.
3. AMT .380 "backup". Quality control varied on these from outstanding to horrendous. Mine is outstanding. Once, while being patted down by a cop during a training exercise, he hit the handle of it, and thought it was a zippo lighter.
4 and 5. For the Desert Eagle crowd: an M2 Iver Johnson "enforcer" and a Bushmaster "armgun". The "Enforcer" is a pistol gripped M2 carbine that was shortened to approximately huge pistol size. Pic here: http://www.wapahani.com/enforcer.jpg I prefer the ones with the vertical foregrip, it really makes a difference on full auto.


The "Armgun" is basically a bastardized bullpup AR-15 pistol that takes M-16 mags. Pic here: http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976532913-1.jpg

Both can be had (if you've got the bucks) in full auto, and both offer far, FAR more firepower than a IMI Desert Eagle could HOPE to put out on it's best day.

I've also been known to carry an "a" series waffenampted BHP. It doesn't have that nasty magazine safety that the non-waffenampted ones do.

... man this is crazy for me not from the US ....

I never had nor ever will I carry a gun ...
and I am so thankful not to live in the US ...

and be able to go to any corner of my town ...
or any town i have been to ....

even in london I have been to "anywhere" ...
There I met them kids on the streets with guns ...
I dont needed one ...

a fighting could be "Natural" ...
a killing for trouble is "INSANE" ....

What u wonder why them shoot them off each time a day in the US ?

A former friend of mine had a gun, now he is in jail for murder ... for fucking 11 years ... got pissed on coca and shot one off in front of the club ...

what the fuck are ya guns for but killing ?
Move to the next hood if it aint right there ...

I dont get ya folks ... Clinton was about to change some laws and the country got upset ... na my way ....

u pay a good price for ya freedom to walk armed ...

man, and ur president started chasing WMDs in Iraq or what?
U have an industry of "mass destruction" running ya homelands ....


greetz, Clinton ... ehm ... Citrid

We're equally thankful that you don't live in the US....I'd far rather the position next to me be empty than be filled with a coward...

Based on feel, personal experience (range time,) and concealability, I've narrowed my selection down to a few choices from which my carry pistol will most likely be selected.

1: The FN 5-7 (5.7mm JHP)
Ironically enough, my interest in this gun was sparked by a local newspaper article that drew on the worst stereotypes of both guns and gun owners, demonizing both the gun and anyone who would buy one as a cop-killer. Seeing through the bullshit, I saw an innovative weapon that has stayed in my mind as my first choice for carrying despite several considerations of other choices. The near-zero recoil and muzzle jump make follow-up shots easy, if necessary.

The ballistics data reveal some interesting properties of the ammunition. First, the 2200fps+ muzzle velocity puts it alongside rifle rounds rather than standard pistol rounds, and at such a high velocity hydrostatic shock becomes a factor in target incapacitation. The permanent wound channel in ballistic gelatin from the 5.7x28 is approximately 2.75", regardless of the target's clothing. In bare gelatin, penetration was 7.75" wit some sideways travel, with standard shirt, flannel, and down jacket it was up to 9" in a straight line, and through IIA kevlar penetration was reduced to 6". It is clear that overpenetration is not an issue with this round, and the hollowpoint does not suffer the same clogging and lack of expansion as normal pistol rounds.

2: The Glock Model 30 (.45ACP JHP)
The .45 is a round that has been proven effective for quick incapacitation of targets. A round like the Federal Hydrashok (which has been reccommended to me by several people) is highly effective and needs no introduction to most shooters.

I recently fired the G30 (actually my first time shooting pistols,) and at 50 yards, I managed a group of only 6". The recoil was easily manageable, and the gun felt natural in my hand. This has fallen to the bottom of my list, however, because it jammed while I was only on my second 9rd magazine. The gun froze out of battery after the 6th shot, and when I looked down into the chamber, I saw the tip of a bullet pointing right back at me. A quick doubl pull of the slide brought me to the last two rounds, which were fired wihtout incident. The offending round was inspected and subsequently fired without any abnormal occurences. Whether this was a freak occurence, an improperly loaded magazine, bad form (loose wrist?,) or the effect of wear on a rental gun can only be determined with the use of several hundred additional rounds (unfortunate, isn't it?)

3: H&K .45 USP
Once again, the .45 is my caliber of choice. This gun felt comfortable in my hand, and the sights lined up perfectly as I lifted it and took aim. There really isn't much else to say. H&K's reliability has been proven by both police and military use, and that's a big endorsement in my book.

4: Springfield MilSpec .45ACP
With a few modifications, the 1911 design can be made into an extremely reliable gun, and a large weapon is not a problem for me. Due to time concerns related to drawing a big gun, I doubt that this will be my final choice, but it's a possibility.

5: Smith and Wesson 500
This is the comedy option of the group. This is what you pick when you don't want to take the question seriously. I'll put it simply. I'm fucking huge. This gun is fucking huge. The only time I've seen anyone use one, he held it like a rifle. A shit-hits-the-fan backup gun, I would only carry so I could say I did. Anything else and I'd look like one of the douchebags who carries a Desert Eagle just to outdo everyone else or compensate for other inadequacies. I might as well shove a sawed-off shotgun down my pants. Accessibility would be an issue, but then again, if I had the time to aim and fire it at an approaching target, I'd have time to get it out. Again, this is purely a comedy option. I'd love to see the looks on peoples' faces if they saw it.

edit: now that I think about it, I'd probably take a CZ-52 over the MilSpec.
I think that brand-loyalty may still be slanting your opinion, but this time you've landed on a solid choice. The 941, marketed in the US as the "Baby Eagle," is the practical, reliable little brother of Counterstrike's noob cannon. Available in 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP (excluding the .41AE, discontinued due to lack of sales,) models of varying sizes, it offers a reasonable range of ammo choices in a concealable size, although a bit on the big side.


If you're going to post on TFP, at least make a good-faith attempt to exercise remedial English Language skills. Your post ranges from exhibiting irritatingly poor grammar to outright incomprehensibility.

Your post does not belong in the Weaponry forum. If you had bothered to read the rules (http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=20063) you would notice that debate between pro/anti gun groups belongs in Politics. Most people would not walk into an NRA meeting or the local shooting range and say what you posted here, and while you may not have seen it as such, posting it here will result in your argument being recieved in a similar manner. To discuss the politics of gun ownership, control, and use, you would find you argument is better recieved if discussed in an appropriate venue (not at a place where gun owners congregate.)

This is your friendly warning. Now that I have explained the rules, any further posting of gun control debate in this forum will be considered trolling and dealt with as such. Please search the politics forum and either find an existing thread in which to post your opinion and arguments, or start a new one if no such thread exists.

Breath, Burp, Fart, Tongue, Penis

I must commend you for this wonderfully relevant contribution to the discussion.

Can I just ask - why would you want to carry a concealed weapon in the first place?

Sure - if a guy pulls a gun on you, you shit your pants (maybe not literally, but hey) you give him your wallet, your watch etc and you get on with your life. So you lost some posessions? Get over it.

If you then pull out a gun, shoot him in the back, he's still alive, shooting match begins, you him or both get killed - or innocent bystanders.... seems like life is cheap all of sudden.

Also, in what state is it legal to walk around with a gun on your person (only because i'm not american)

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How do you know the person won't shoot you anyway? What if someone just threatens you?

Now, I like things that go boom as much as the next guy, but I was sort of wondering about this too. I know that where I live isn't the greatest neighbourhood and I could easily see myself getting into a scrap and having to bloody a lip, but I've never felt so threatened that I'd need to carry a firearm on my person and certainly not as I go about my daily life.

What I'm wondering is where some of you live that you feel the need for such a high level of personal protection? Have any of you actually used your concealed weapon to fend off a mugger or other form of attacker? I'm not being anti-gun here and I'm certainly not going to tell anyone they're not entitled so long as it's in accordance with local law, but I just have trouble understanding the need.

paulskinback - if you shoot him it's unlikely for a shooting match to begin, especially if you shoot him in the back. There's a lot of really painful spots to hit on the back and if you hit the spinal column it could result in paralization or death. Further to that, even if he does return fire odds are against there being more than one or two slugs fired, unless you're both absolutely terrible shots. Guns are designed to incapacitate through injury or death (and don't give me the 'sport' argument, that's not their original intent, even if they've evolved that way) and they do their job remarkably well.

Again, I'm not anti-gun. They certainly have their place. Match shooting and skeet shooting are great pastimes for some people and I'd never suggest that our police forces give up their sidearms. I just don't see the need for your average citizen to carry a weapon as he goes about his daily life.

Well Martian, pistols aren't exactly ubiqutous in Canada. Most weapons-related assaults and deaths involve stabbing or slashing implements. The United States (especially certain states) is a much different atmosphere from Canada. Florida for example, with their new "shoot first, don't ask questions at all" law is somewhere I'd want to be carrying, along with probably 3/4 of the rest of the states.

Besides the number of weapons found throughout, what if someone hugely violent and fit, maybe an ex-Marine, decides to pick a fight with you? Your life could be in danger purely from his unarmed combat ablities. You pull a firearm out while you're far enough away, and hopefully the wannabe assailant will back down.

Because law abiding citizens should not be without means of defending themselves in those rare situations. The police aren't there to protect you.

It's perfectly legal in most states (with the ironic exception of some large cities where law-abiding gun owners would be most likely to be able to discourage criminals from attacking.)

There are many reasons to carry a weapon, and it probbly deserves its own thread, but I'll try to summarize for you. There are two big ones. First, our Supreme Court has ruled that the police are not responsible for protecting us, they're responsible for arresting those who harm us (or killing them if they threaten the police with deadly force,) and filling out paperwork and providing evidence for a trial afterwards. They cannot be everywhere at all times. Think about how many law enforcement officers there are per person. There's no way that one of them will be able to protect even a simple majority of violent crime victims chosen at random. Second, a person who is threatening to take your life because of whatever cash and valuables you're carrying with you cannot be trusted to stop that threat once finished. Most gun owners will agree that any person who is willing to take your life in a non-defensive situation has forfeited the right to his own.

The logic behind preserving the right of every person to own guns is that we are a nation founded by those who refused to give them up and used them to fight back against an oppressive government, and we should not be deprived of that right at any point in the future if the need arises. Most gun owners hope that they will never have to shoot anything other than an inanimate target, and most will never have to. However, there is a possibility that they will need it, and it is much better to be prepared than not.

The consideration of shooting anyone in the back who no longer poses a threat to you bothers me. A gun should be used to defend yourself, not for revenge against an attacker who has stopped. As for the need argument, refer to my comments above.
That's a really bad way to describe it. The law simply states that you don't have to back into a corner if you think your life is in immediate danger. Anyone who tries to abuse it by shooting when they don't need to will certainly be found guilty of unnecessarily escalating the situation and sentenced accordingly.

Would "shoot first, ask questions later" be better? ;) Just ribbin' ya. Yeah, it may be a bad way to describe it. Either way, someone living in Canada has no comparison to living in the states, despite what a small group of Europeans may say about our countries being identical.

p99 & ultratech II

I would have to go with Glock 27, as someone said earlier it fits in your pocket easy, and let's not forget about a couple of extra clips (just in case). Toss a knife or too (choose something small) and you're ready to go.