Undercover Assault Rifles

[Plan9]

Preface: The term "assault rifle" is not meant to be taken military-dictionary-definition literally here.

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When is an evil assault rifle not an evil assault rifle? When it's a rifle that looks like something grandpa used to own.

This thread is dedicated to the topic of non-AR/AK rifles modified for defensive purposes. It's a hot topic on other gun boards and, IIRC, I've already seen a few examples here at TFP. The idea is that a bolt/slide/lever action rifle designed for hunting can be turned into a slick defensive firearm with a few subtle modifications while still maintaining its wholesome image. Turns out that backpacking with a tricked out Colt M4 is significantly harder to get away with than backpacking with a Winchester 94.

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Couple of main features of non-assault rifle assault rifles:

- no scary all black super serious military motif (traditional wood furniture, blued / stainless receiver)
- lack of a scary extended detachable magazine (usually an internal box or tube magazine)
- absence of a pistol grip and adjustable shoulder stock (usually a classic rifle stock)
- no crazy accessory rails and "tactical" accessories (flashlights, pistol grips, uh… bayonets)
- not considered "assault weapons" by whatever asinine local laws that may separate rifles into said categories

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I've decided I'm going to go down the "undercover truck gun" route when I get back to the states. I've already got a Savage Scout 10FCM (.308 w/ 18" bbl) but I was thinking about going with something even more compact and even less military-looking. I decided that a featherweight lever action rifle would be a good choice.

The Winchester 94 is the ubiquitous lever action hunting rifle. The venerable .30-30 round it launches is suitable for deer (comparable to the 7.62x39mm in many ways) and the traditional lines of the gun are about as threatening to most people as a high school history textbook. It just looks like an antique; a prop from those old cowboy movies where every wound is a fleshwound.

The foundation of this project will be a Winchester 94AE Trapper angle ejector with a tang safety. The idea was to start with the lightest, most compact rifle I could buy without any special gummint paperwork. The ~16” barrel and ~6 pound loaded weight make it perfect for strapping on to a rucksack even if the muzzle blast is increased and it isn’t as balanced as the 20” model. I had considered the popular Marlin 336 (I currently own a 336SS) but the 20" barrel and extra heavy duty receiver (far more so than necessary for this project) made the stubby Winchester a better choice. Although revolver caliber carbines (.357 / .44) offer higher magazine capacity and compatibility with popular trail sidearms, they have limited range and stopping power.

In order to modify the Trapper to be more suitable for defensive purposes, I’m going to need to alter some of the things about this particular traditional hunting rifle that make it unwieldy as a fighting weapon. Aside from a professional slick-me-up trigger and action job, the list of necessary modifications includes replacing the iron sights, finding a suitable scope mount and scope, working on the stock and choosing a sling.

The standard buckhorn iron sights will be replaced with XS products: a white line front post and a “ghost ring” aperture rear. These are the sights I’ve got in mind: XS Sight Systems - Rifle Sights

Why use a scope if I want to keep this thing light? The primary advantage of any optic is not magnification, but that it provides a single focal plane. If I spend less time lining sights up, I'm faster to send one down range. I’ve decided to go with a scout scope setup on the Trapper in an attempt to help balance it out. Unlike a traditional scout setup where the scope is mounted atop the receiver close to the eye, scout scopes are pushed forward onto the barrel above the chamber and feature long eye relief, a feature that allows you to get a clear sight picture farther away from the optic. Aside from balance, this feature allows easy access to the chamber area while the downsides are… well, I won’t get into that here. This is the mount I’ve got in mind: XS Sight Systems - Scope Mounts with a Loop scout scope such as Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm Scout Rifle Scope.

The standard wood stock will be maintained to keep the rifle looking as innocent as possible, although some more aggressive checkering may be involved. I was thinking about bulking up the skinny hand guard to make it easier to hold onto, but I don’t want to give it too much of a mutant look at first. Regardless of how it turns out, the idea is to keep the furniture looking like brown wood because brown wood is less scary than black plastic.

As for the sling, standard sling studs will be installed on the rifle at the barrel band and buttstock. A single hand adjustable assault rifle sling, such as the popular Viking Tactics unpadded model, will be used to increase the “user friendly” factor of the rifle. Modern assault rifle slings feature quick adjustment tabs or buckles that allow the user to change the length (and thus tightness) of the sling quickly, something that is incredibly handy when performing activities such running and climbing or those times when you need both hands free and don’t want to worry about a rifle stock smashing your ghoulies.

As a finishing touch, I may decide to get the metal components covered in an off gray Cerakote finish to protect while making it look more like an antique and less like a threat. One of the problems with a traditional blue finish is that it quickly wears off and the hungry rust monster is quick to show up.

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Thoughts? Comments? Advice?

Where did I screw up my Gun Fu?

[KirStang]

Something like this?



That would be pretty ideal for camping/hiking.

[Strange Famous]

The best bet here is an IMI Timberwolf

As you can see, this model has wooden parts so it fits in with your requirments

And because it has a pump action you can fire quickly so you can use it for "defensive" means as you put it.

[Walt]

If I already had the Marlin, I'd stick with it and spend the extra money on accessories. It only weighs a pound more than the Win 94 (stop being a bitch). From what I understand, the 336 is about 4 inches longer than the 94. If you want to shorten up the Marlin a bit and lose a little weight, throw on a "Youth Stock".

Regardless, it sounds like youre off to a good start. I'm rocking a very similar set up on a 1895 Guide in 45-70. The only difference is that I installed an extended magazine tube off of the "Cowboy" model, giving me a capacity of 6+1.

I definitely recommend the Leupold Scout scope on the XS rail. For rings, I like the Leupold QD's as they allow one to remove the scope and use the iron sights in a pinch. Not as fast as ARMS mounts, but its solidly built and good enough. Also check out the Wild West trigger. It's much cleaner/lighter/more predictable than the stock set up.

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

The best bet here is an IMI Timberwolf

Trolling aside, if whatever you do in the real world doesnt work out, you should definitely look in to working as a sales rep for IMI. Your knowledge of their product line is impressive.

[Plan9]

But I want shorter and lighter, gosh. 4" might not mean a whole lot to you, but the barrel length of a Marlin and my pant size is remarkably similar.

And c'mon... isn't that the reason you see gut-toting civilian ninjas at a Vickers class with 11.5" SBRs for NO REASON? Short and light and stupid?

I see your point about the 336, though. I kinda wanna go with the Winchester just because it's something I haven't owned yet, though.

We'll see what I come up with when I get home. I may go the poor man's route and just fix up the 336 real purdy. Thanks, Walt.

I wonder how well a Duracerajacketcoat or other similar paint-like covering will work on stainless steel. Hmm. Let's find out.

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Strange,

Believe it or not I've actually been looking for an IMI Timberwolf at a gun shop / gun show just so I can say I played around with it. I like the idea of slide-action rifles but they're not a very popular design (Remington makes some, based off the modern BAR) and, as such, not available in intermediate calibers. I'm either stuck with Magnum revolver rounds (.357, .44) or full-house rifle rounds (.270, .308, .30-06). The bolt action CZ 527, chambered in 7.62x39mm (AK-47 round), was considered but it is rare and I'm more partial to a lever action for this project than a bolt action. Other guns considered for this project were the Marlin 1895G (.45/70, Walt has one of these pocket artillery pieces), the Winchester Trapper in .357/.44, and the Ruger 77/44 bolt action in .44. The idea is to stick to a hunting rifle in a hunting rifle caliber. I don't want anything that looks anything like any kind of "army gun."

[cj2112]

I have Model 94, I'm 42, and I know it's older than I am, because my step-dad bought it used in the late '50's. I haven't ever checked to see when in it was manufactured.

I've often thought that it would make an ideal weapon for what you are proposing. It's a good looking, non-intimidating rifle to the general public. 30-30 would certainly carry enough punch to be effective in a self defense situation, and the gun is plenty compact for this use. I would do the same with mine, but it has sentimental value, and has been promised to my son when he's old enough to have it.

[monkeysugar]

Originally Posted by KirStang

Something like this?



That would be pretty ideal for camping/hiking.

This is almost exactly what I have in mind for the 336 I recently picked up. Lightweight, aperture sight, long eye relief scope with quick detach rings, upgraded trigger and large loop lever...oh yeah.

This, to me, has a lot of value* as something that resembles "grandpa's old deer rifle," i.e. non-threatening to pretty much anyone but the most...sensitive...type individual who might see it being carried or strapped to a backpack out on a hike in the woods. Yet it still holds 6+1 rounds, and is easily reloaded on the fly. That and I just love the look and feel of a lever gun.


*Unless they have bear cavalry, in which case, yeah...I'm pretty much fucked. Provided I lack proper species specific armament concealed in my backpack. Actually I totally missed it before...the rifle pictured looks suspiciously like a 45-70/shoulder mounted cannon. I've been lusting over one on the consignment rack for the past several months, waiting for some other asshole to buy it "yesterday" when I go to drop some cash on it. I love/hate stores that don't have layaway.

[Walt]

Just a quick thought:

I don't know how much time you plan to spend firing this thing from a rest, but doing so has led to issues with my Marlin. The combination of a light rifle and moderate recoil has led to the sling swivels catching on the rest and breaking more than once. I'm looking in to moving the studs to one side of the rifle to fix this. Also, it would be nice to be able to walk with the rifle slung like an M4 so that I can keep my hands free and still be able to get at the rifle on short notice.

[Plan9]

Yeah, I've already done it. I think I mentioned it in the Gun Porn thread when I was talking to Longbough about his shotgun-'o-many-straps.

Moved most of my sling studs to the 9 to 11 o'clock position, such as on my Remington 870 and Savage Scout so I can carry them a la M4.

It's really an ugly process. Ex: I took a Dremel to the hollow plastic 870 stock and made a hole. The front sling attachment was a mag tube cap.

Not going to be shooting this piece from the bench much outside of messing with the irons / glass when I put it together. I'm just not a bench guy.

I was thinking about your suggestion of doing the 336SS up because it'd be cheaper than buying a whole 'nother rifle. Totally may happen.

If I was really smart, I'd just drop the glass on my Savage 10FCM Scout (since it already has a factory scout mount / irons).

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Also: On a scale of 1 to Tits, how pleased are you with the Loop rings on the XS scout mount? Does it make you happy inside?

[Walt]

Originally Posted by Plan9

Also: On a scale of 1 to Tits, how pleased are you with the Loop rings on the XS scout mount? Does it make you happy inside?

Eh. They're like banging a chick that was born in the 90's. They require no coaxing to do the job and they're ultimately satisfying, though they don't exactly blow you away.

The ring to scope fit is phenomenal. They seem to be sturdy enough as the zero hasn't shifted after having fired a couple thousand hot 45-70 rounds. My only bitch is that the QD levers protrude a bit from the ring body and can get snagged on whatever. All-in-all, I'm happy with them and don't plan on swapping them out any time soon.

[rahl]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Walt

Eh. They're like banging a chick that was born in the 90's. They require no coaxing to do the job and they're ultimately satisfying, though they don't exactly blow you away.

I would like to buy the rights to this quote. One of the best things I've ever read!!!

[Plan9]

Walt is a regular Pearl of Wisdom dispenser. Just follow him around and you'll get something even better.