what happened to stealth?
 

So my city is a popular stopover for many different types of people. One being many members of the US Armed Forces.

Last weekend i was walking through one of the many big malls here, and couldnt but help notice that there'd been an influx of US Armed forces personnel in the country who so happened to stopover in DXB.

It's quite common to see young buff people here, just as you would in any other city. But anytime theres a stopover by one of the Armed Forces, it's really easy to spot. I mean, REALLLY easy!

a typical member of the armed forces looks like this...

1) walks like a tank from all the months pumping iron out at sea or in camp
2) sports a crew cut or shaved head
3) walk around with backpacks
4) walks around in groups of two or three
5) wear 3 quarter length pants
6) talk on the top of their lungs with an american accent


my question is, what ever happened to stealth?

do these guys intentionally want to be spotted? or does the US tell these guys to try and blend in? because if they do, these guys do a really bad job.

This place is by far the safest city ive ever been to. there are no security concerns, no guns, violence is rarely heard of (though becoming more common), women walk the streets without fear, theres no graffiti etc. And a lot of this has to do with the security forces here. So i see no threat to the personal safety of the members US Armed Forces. However, if these guys stick out like dogs balls in other more hostile territories, they're asking for trouble.


Does the US armed forces teach stealth in a normal setting?

if so, how? if not, why not?

Smartass answer: You can't hide a white guy in the certain countries.

I'll add my actual comments after work.

+1 for the comment above. we're easy to spot in foreign countries. i'm stationed in korea so... you can pretty much assume every american guy you see with a crew cut is military.

pretty much the military teaches us to respect the local laws and customs.
they also tell us to not to act like fools because the actions of a few soldiers can make the whole military look bad. if these guys are just enjoying the sites around town, i dont see a problem with looking like a tourist. but if they're doing things that would make the military look bad then it would be an issue.

Why should they be stealthy when they're walking around? It's a normal setting, not a combat mission.

On a side note, what are 3 quarter length pants? Capris or those longer cargo shorts? I know guys in Europe like to wear capris but I've never seen an American with them on.

I'm almost 100% certain that 3/4 length pants are some kind of discrete method for homosexual men to identify each other in public. Much like mustaches, British accents or the "wide stance, two toe taps in the bathroom stall" thing that got Larry Craig busted.

well here there's a massive mix of people from all over teh world and a massive exaptriate community. so its a lot harder to spot who's who. its just really easy to spot a serving member of the armed forces. in asia it may be different. im ot so sure.

its not an issue here, but in other parts of the world where its more hostile if they walked around in the same sort of way it may be a problem as they can be singled out. a wacko who has an axe to grind wouldnt care if you respected the laws while you're a tourist. as far as he's concerned you're US armed forces you're fair game anywhere. for some you're presense in region is enough.


When i said stealth, i meant blending in with everyone else. not stealth in the military sense.

fyi - 3/4 pants are just pants that go upto your shins. not sure what there called in the states.

Male US military personnel do not wear capris.

These are the only approved types of less-than-pants pants:

- Soffe short-shorts
- ugly PT shorts
- ridiculous baggy basketball shorts (off duty)

they do. ill take a picture next time i see one.

what i really wanted to know is if the military teaches them to fit in or tells them to dress in certain ways.

Answer: The US military doesn't teach Joe Average anything. They get a vague PowerPoint on local customs 10 minutes before they deploy to X shithole.

from your view, do you feel this is something that needs to be looked at?

or is it just a total waste of taxpayers money?

Perhaps the military guys are nervous being in a different country so they act like douchebags to repel everyone not in their small group.

I think it is bad foreign policy. There should be some basic rules to safe travel and nicely interacting with any foreigner.

The only reason against it, is that they wouldn't 'fit' in or be able to blend in whatever they do. And, even if they did a really good job of blending in, they would be looked at as spies then.

Okay, you guys are acting retarded in here. I'm not even going to get into how asinine the two previous comments are... just... yeah.

Military personnel are no different than anybody else. It's just a job with a lot of rules about appearance. Army guys are just like you but they've just got stupid haircuts and are capable of working for more than twenty minutes without being winded. Aside from common courtesy and not dressing like Prince or Marilyn Manson, there is no reason for regular Americans (of any occupation) to try to act like secret agents when traveling abroad. If they're not in a uniform of some sort, then they're either Super Special Dudes or dumbass contractors. Regardless, they always move in groups, they have a chain of command, they're (usually) physically fit, and they're only there for a short period of time (typically). Stealth is not required for these situations because they're not at work. Do bad things happen to Americans overseas? Yeah. It's unavoidable. Like I said, white people are especially easy to spot.

I find it ironic that a man of a Middle Eastern and Western background is calling American fashion and behaviors weird.

We think the same about man dresses and hand holding.

i never said they act like douchebags. quite the contrary. they've never been involved in anything out of the ordinary. not from what ive seen. most are happy to be walking around the worlds biggest mall... can i count that as a point? they're all smiles all round?

its just that their dresscode is so similar that its like they've been ordered to dress in a certain way that allows them to be spotted.

i also never said that their fashion was weird..but it stands out. theres a difference. only about 10% of the population wear dishdashes here..if that!. the rest wear 'normal' clothing (jeans, shorts, tshirts etc), dont all look the same, and dont all carry backpacks.

i think you're just a little upset because you were one of them once :D

...so you're shocked that military personnel, who are forced to all look the same at work, look similar when they're off duty?

And no, I was never "one of them" as described in your OP. As I was about to add (sorry, I edit my posts like 28 times):

99% of US military personnel will travel in groups and in uniform. The "combat" deployments I've been on strictly forbade civilian clothing.

And if these guys are all dressing similarly it's probably because they're from the same country, roughly the same age, and in the same occupation.

Rumor has it lumberjacks, ninjas, and pirates also dress similarly. If you're running into GI Joe-looking Americans in Dubai, they're probably contractors.

It's been a while since I deployed but we always flew into Koowait for our hop to Uhraq.

Well, everything would be so much easier if only they'd be a bit less....American....

well..when in rome...

Lots of Navy dudes rolling around in civilian clothes without a care in the world? I'm going to guess Bahrain or Dubai?

Cromps pretty much nailed it. If I recall correctly, they called the program "Head Start" or something similar. It was essentially a Power Point consisting of a few helpful phrases in the local language and host-country no-no's. Ex: "In Europe it is normal for two men to kiss eachother on the cheek in greeting. If a man tries to kiss you on the cheek, don't hit him."

Soldiers are also reminded that they aren’t in Kansas anymore; there is a very real (though statistically unlikely) threat of being targeted by terrorists, etc when they are overseas. It is suggested that they do their best to present a low profile. There is no formal training as to how to accomplish this or any kind of regulation (that I know of) requiring soldiers to do so.

--------------------------------------

The folks rolling around in civilian clothes in hostile countries know what they’re doing and have a very defined reason for doing so. The average soldier isn’t allowed/trained to operate like that. Your average soldier is allowed to roll around unarmed and in civilian clothes in only places deemed safe for tourists, etc. The goal, then, isn’t so much stealth as it is simply lowering your profile so that most people can’t peg you as American at first glance. Most of us accomplish this simply by losing the swagger and dressing “less American” (slim-cut jeans, trading Nike’s for Puma’s, backpacks for man purses, baseball caps for cabbie hats).

For what it’s worth, the guys you can easily pick out on the street are most likely younger guys. They are fresh out of basic and so are convinced that they are highly-trained killing machines. They are proud to be an American and aren’t going to tone it down to fit in because, damnit, these colors don’t run! Whenever you allow a group of young soldiers to wander freely without adult supervision, their collective IQ can only be explained as “multiplying fractions”.

I was disappointed at the level of hostility in Dubai despite my Chris-Tucker-in-Fifth-Element outfit.

By three quarter length pants do you mean regular shorts that are sagging so far below the waist they reach the ankles?

Because that isn't an army thing, it's a 'trash' thing. It isn't surprising their manner of dress for many young soldiers reflects their background and level of maturity. Even so, they are probably not soldiers or they would not be wearing civilian clothes. There are a lot of good contractors, but there are a lot of retards also. Many are laborers/mechanics/cooks, etc. in the United States and do the same job while deployed for a little more money...It doesn't make them sophisticated.


If you are talking no-shit capri's then you've got the wrong Army.

*waits for inevitable MC Hammer picture*

Also: That LL Cool Jay pushed-up sweatpants leg thing doesn't count as capris.

I know, right? Here's the humor: I just tell everybody over yonder that I'm Canadian. "Home is Toronto, eh." I don't look like a soldier (scrawny, harmless) so they usually believe my story about being a toilet cleaning contractor that enjoys great health care and women with fashion sense.

this is actually a pic of plan9 with the pants the military gave him to wear to blend in. sorry i cant show his face here. he's trying to be 'stealth'



http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Ie53rpulRF7HY=

the 3/4 ones go a little bit lower, usually to the calves

Uh, no. Those shorts are too European / homosexual. Refer to Slims' statement on said short pants.

And that isn't me. Dude (we assume despite the pants) is too tan and has leg muscles. This is me:

http://s7d3.scene7.com/is/image/DeltaApparel/M020

The 5% of the time I'm not in pants, I'm usually wearing short-shorts like that.

I use them as underwear and swim trunks as well. They're all purpose.

The goal is practicality, the side effect is being awkward around my peers.

Sometimes I wear cargo shorts that hit the knee but that's pretty rare.

When you say 3/4 length pants do you mean something like what the guy on the right is wearing?

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7900/sagging.jpg

^^Gosh, that pic cracks me up ALWAYS!!

With respect to the quiet americans here, everyone has seen the typical "loud" american tourist (complete with stars and stripes tracksuit and very little understanding of volume control). They are the ones you remember, not the normal ones.

Maybe lots of them ARE stealthed - but you remember the loud ones.

^^ Of course, no one ever forgets the stereo types.

OP i think it's just a clash of the cultures. each unit becomes a little culture in its own so try to imagine travelling around with the inhabitants of your country. you would want to hang out with people who understand you, get your jokes, and talk like you right?

same with these guys. they're not on their toes about anything unless they need to be and until then, they're just acting as is comfortable for them

...No, I'm sorry EventHorizon, but I disagree.

The Ugly American stereotype is prevalent abroad and unfortunately well earned. It is poor form to travel to a foreign country and then stand out for dressing and acting like fools.

I am Military and everything I have been told is that the default dress code upon entering a Muslim country is to wear long sleeves and long pants, at least until/unless you know the actual courtesies and conventions of that particular country. You don't act in a loud and boisterous manner and all reasonable attempts should be made to conform to local customs and courtesy's so as not to offend and to not attract attention.

If our soldiers habitually run around Dlish's country acting like he posted then they need to get set straight (The yelling and wearing gay shorts, they can't help the groups, backpacks or crew cut thing). I actually had to layover on a plane in Turkey because of non-socially sensitive asshats who burned bridges before me.

I am skeptical however that they are actual soldiers and not contractors. Typically the soldiers who have the freedom to run around a foreign country won't act that way and the younger guys who would are not allowed out.

i agree with these paragraphs and i'm not trying to defend or justify obnoxious behavior. i am also military and i can see how the only memorable Americans are the Ugly Americans, but is it too much to ask for cultural toleration of one another? i dont bash on muslims because they dress or worship or talk or behave differently than i do. there really shouldn't be a reason why a host country can't understand, but not necessarily condone, American soldiers acting in an American fashion towards one another as long as they dont offend any of the indigenous population.

However, if it was contractors that wore the stars and stripes jumpsuit while sucking down a double gulp of lardo-cola and not being at the very least, cautious, about cultural differences, then i can understand why people would get upset.

Well, as long as a soldier is essentially a guest in a foreign country it is not wrong to expect them to not make asses of themselves.

Just like our female soldiers have absolutely no business laying out in a bikini in public in the muslim world.

There is tolerance and then there is blatant stupidity.


Dlish may be a bit oversensitive, but IF soldiers are acting unusually loud and inappropriately dressed then he does not need to tolerate it any more than we need to allow Muslim men in the United States to force their wives to wear Burkhas.

But, to steal a line from South Park "Tolerance means you have to tolerate something, not that you have to like it." Dlish seems to be tolerating just fine, but feels offended enough to share his experience here.

can i borrow that sometime?

Oops. It occurs to me I may have made a poor assumption.

Dlish: What city are you talking about? I know you used to be in UAE, but your profile now says Australia/UAE.

i guess it all comes down to what actually happened. if they were just being stupid, then they totally deserve they stereotype. but tell me if you were in an airport going out or coming back that you wouldn't start cracking jokes or having a mildly heated discussion about whether team edward or team jacob is the more repulsive of the two. not necessarily screaming "DRACULA WAS A REAL MAN NOT SOME POLE-SMOKING GLITTERY SISSY!!!", but at least sharing a private debate

What the?! Dude. Dude.

to which part are you referring?

Is the UAE quieter than the mediterranean? Because I have plenty of family strewn about from morocco all the way to israel and I don't think there's anywhere that americans would remotely stand out as "loud" in over there...

p.s. He has a point, vampires do not "sparkle".

i agree, but according the stephanie meyer's literary bowel movement, they do.

Why are grown men having this discussion? GTFO.

To clarify dlish is an Aussie muslim living in Dubai.

We see the loud mouth Americans in Oz, but we have enough loud mouths of our own that we don't notice them as much ;)

Spindles, have you ever met a quiet well mannered American that you were surprised was an American?

Got his address? I wanna sneak up on him sometime next year.

I assure you that such a creature does not exist. We are corpulent, ill-behaved Mongols.

shit i never got the memo:eek:, i've got some fattening up to do!

Then it's a good thing Mark Twain's last book just knocked it out of the #1 spot.

I'm only half american, the other half is middle-eastern. Given that I am skeletal rather than corpulent I believe in my case I am a skeletal ill-behaved judean.

slims,

spindles is right. Im an australian of lebanese heritage who happensto be muslim who lives in dubai.

i never said that they are always loud and boistrous. sometimes they are, most times they are not. but they are not rude in any way i have seen. They just ...."stick out" - and im not sure if that is a good or bad thing. with the city being a mix of people from all over the world, id have felt that they'd do a better job of blending in. The way they all dress it seems like it was an order to dress the same. the reason i point it out is for their sake than anything else. am i being oversensitive? i dont know, you tell me.


shadow - what do you mean is the UAE quiter than the mediterreanean? quiter in what way?

plan9 - so you're planning on going stealth on me? PM me and ill give you my address so you can surprise me.

---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ----------

shadow? are you a long lost cousin?..brother!

Well I'm a Sephardi jew so there's a fair chance that's an accurate assessment if you go back far enough.

As far as quieter... I meant that literally. A lot of people I know refer to americans as loud and rude-by-ignorance, which makes sense someplace like finland... but having been to Israel many times and having family all around the mediterranean I usually see americans as sticking out in the middle east because compared to everyone else they're downright quiet and submissive.

The manners thing I'll grant wholeheartedly though, what passes for rude or not in america can be radically different than elsewhere. Hell just look at how america views eye contact versus a lot of the rest of the world.

Dlish:

There is no fixing the 'sticking out' if they are in fact soldiers.

They will be young and thus acting like a high school football team.

They will have the 'haircut' as they have no choice and inflexible commands won't allow common sense to interfere with the assembly line robot look.

They will not be alone as they will be required to use the buddy system.



I thought you were talking about idiotic, boisterous behavior and there is no place for that when trying to travel discretely abroad.

It's a beautiful tradition. From Moses to Sandy Koufax.

Years back, there was a quip from Reader's Digest's 'Humor in Uniform.' A GI is on leave (or whatever the term is) in Egypt, and receives a briefing on how to not stick out. Shortly thereafter, the group purchases all sorts of clothing and civilian gear. They get bused in to Egypt, and upon disembarking, a group of school girls happen to walk by and yell, "Hello GIs!"

Perhaps it's the muscular build and clean hair cuts? I'm curious. I'd like to witness this for myself.

They're white. And all crackers are imperialist pigdogs.

You're polish catholic.

whats a pigdog?

when all else fails..

always refer back to The Bible...

Urban Dictionary: pigdog

Dlish, you're all over it.

I frequent this Panera near an Army base.

It's funny, I actually noticed about 3 or 4 military guys in there. Short buzz hair cuts, relatively in shape, or muscular. Clean shaved face. I would bet they were US Mil. If you know what you're looking for, military people do tend to stand out.

The only bases belonging to the Army are of the forward operating or plate variety. Noob.

/Just fucking with you.

Ahem, excuse me, "Near an Army Fort." Is that better? :lol:

Depends on the surroundings. In VA Beach when I was growing up so many people had the military look even if they weren't that it could be hard to tell sometimes. Down here in Orlando though pretty much anyone without a neckbeard or several popped collars is likely to be military.