Possible Range Rifle - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Hektore · 08-10-2009, 08:24 AM

You're looking at a Winchester Model 88 with a Bushnell Banner 3-9x40 scope.

It is my wife's grandfathers rifle. It has been stored in the closet for no less than 10 years, a likely quite a bit longer than that.

My first question is about how to return it to good working order. I've handles my fair share of guns before, but have never considered owning one. That may be possible with this and need to know what I'm getting myself into.

My second question is after all of that if it would be a worthwhile range gun and/or possible deer rifle.

//edit: It's a .308

Slims · 08-10-2009, 12:30 PM

The rifle doesn't look in bad shape. The caliber is certainly sufficient for deer and provided nothing is broken it should be more than adequate.

I would start by unloading the rifle (google for step-by-step procedures if you don't already know) and checking to make sure it is empty.

Then I would inspect the rifle for rust, obvious cracks, etc. Then clean the rifle up using some Hoppes 9 or Break Free CLP and a simple gun-cleaning kit. Take a look down the barrel while the action is OPEN and stick a flashlight in the chamber. You should be able to see the rifling with no obstructions, pitting, etc. You may need to re-check this after you clean the barrel up a bit more. With the weapon Unloaded and pointed in a safe direction, cycle the action, put the weapon on safe and attempt to fire it (of course, it should not), then put the weapon on fire and attempt to fire (you should hear the hammer falling). There are probably some other things you can do, but without being familiar with your particular weapon I am going to stop there.

If everything seems to work your rifle is probably in good working order, but unless you know 100 % that the rifle was in good shape when it went into the closet, it should still be checked out by a gunsmith to check the headspace/chamber dimensions, etc. which you just can't do without the proper tools (b/c it is possible something was wrong with the rifle and your grand father just put it away and forgot about it)

.308 is a very good deer round and is perfectly fine for all but the most extreme distances (which most of us can't get hits at anyways). The rifle looks like it is a decent size/length which should make it well suited to moving through brush/trees. It has a good sling which is always important. The scope is probably the most likely part to be broken so if you can't hit anything try shooting with the Iron Sights. The weapon is a lever-action and it won't ever be a precision weapon, but I think you will find it can probably shoot better than you can and should do just fine at the range unless you need less than 3" groups at 100 yards or so.

Hektore · 08-10-2009, 01:05 PM

I was told he was very fastidious when he had his wits about him (alzheimers), I also know that he is not the one who just put them in the closet for long term storage, so I guess it's a wash. I've already made sure it was unloaded, along with the other guns I've found in the house since we've been cleaning (a no name 20-gauge and an old, beat to hell arisaka he picked up during WWII).

My understanding of the model 88 (from what I can find online) is that it is actually a bolt action operated by a lever (however that works), a kind of middle ground or best of both worlds philosophy. It also apparently went out of production in the 70s.

Does anybody have any idea what it's going to cost a smith to just give it a good looking over?

G5_Todd · 08-10-2009, 01:26 PM

the biggest thing to look for will be rust...with anything stored that long i would expect to fine some...

but you will definately need to break it down clean it and lube it...and if after you reassemble it do a functions check...

Slims · 08-12-2009, 12:16 PM

A quick look by a friendly gun smith should be cheap, probably about 20 bucks or so. All you need the smith to do is check the chamber and throat dimensions and look for hairline cracks real quick. If you look like a potential customer for ammunition/etc. they may check your weapon over for free.

That Arisaka may be something special, I would pay attention (but not shoot) to that one also. What condition is it in?

Slims

Hektore · 08-12-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slims

A quick look by a friendly gun smith should be cheap, probably about 20 bucks or so. All you need the smith to do is check the chamber and throat dimensions and look for hairline cracks real quick. If you look like a potential customer for ammunition/etc. they may check your weapon over for free.

That Arisaka may be something special, I would pay attention (but not shoot) to that one also. What condition is it in?

Slims

The Arisaka is sort of beat up, it's got lots of nicks and scratches, but there is no major damage, and no exterior rust visible.

Here is a picture of the whole thing.

And a close up of the top inscription (In what I assume is Japanese).

I do not know for certain if that's what it is, but seems plausible. He (Her Grandfather) was in the navy during the war and the person that informed me of this seems to know guns.

Here:

This is the inscription on top of the barrel, next to the sight.

Slims · 08-12-2009, 01:07 PM

Check out this site:

Markings on Japanese Arisaka Rifles and Bayonets of World War II

It looks like the Chrysanthemum may have been partially ground off on your rifle, which would indicate it was not captured in combat. But you need to check. If the flower stamp on top of the receiver is intact, it makes your rifle worth a lot more. From what I can see of the steel and furniture on that rifle it is in excellent shape.

You can use the link I posted above to sort out where/when the rifle was made. The pre-war models were of high quality and may be worth quite a lot of money. The rifles produced towards the end of the war are often worth nearly nothing.

Are there markings on the bolt? If they match the markings on the receiver that is a big plus.

What's going on with the Muzzle? I can see that it is a different color, but I cannot see why in the photo. Is it a covering, corrosion?

Slims

Hektore · 08-12-2009, 01:16 PM

It's a covering, I was actually looking at the site as you posted (you're earlier post got me curious.

As far as I can tell It's serial number matches earliest production in the page. (serial 000201XXXX (I'm not sure about the security of posting a gun serial online, but that should be enough to give you an idea). That puts it 1906-1935, probably late in that period given the very high number.

It has the S instead of the B

It's a type 38 from Koishikawa Arsenal (Tokyo) according to the symbol page.

The_Dunedan · 08-12-2009, 05:53 PM

Got any more photos? Mum's at least partially there, dust-cover seems to be there from what I can see...could be a nice collector.

Hektore · 08-17-2009, 01:32 PM

What sorts of photos are you looking for, I have the rifle and a camera so I could get any picture you want (except the serial).

The_Dunedan · 08-17-2009, 01:37 PM

A better shot of the mum, front and rear sights, rear of the bolt, any proofs or cartouches, and if possible the crown of the barrel. Might even be able to point you towards a collector, if you're interested in selling.

08-10-2009, 08:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	Possible Range Rifle You're looking at a Winchester Model 88 with a Bushnell Banner 3-9x40 scope. It is my wife's grandfathers rifle. It has been stored in the closet for no less than 10 years, a likely quite a bit longer than that. My first question is about how to return it to good working order. I've handles my fair share of guns before, but have never considered owning one. That may be possible with this and need to know what I'm getting myself into. My second question is after all of that if it would be a worthwhile range gun and/or possible deer rifle. //edit: It's a .308 __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game. Last edited by Hektore; 08-10-2009 at 10:10 AM..

08-10-2009, 12:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	The rifle doesn't look in bad shape. The caliber is certainly sufficient for deer and provided nothing is broken it should be more than adequate. I would start by unloading the rifle (google for step-by-step procedures if you don't already know) and checking to make sure it is empty. Then I would inspect the rifle for rust, obvious cracks, etc. Then clean the rifle up using some Hoppes 9 or Break Free CLP and a simple gun-cleaning kit. Take a look down the barrel while the action is OPEN and stick a flashlight in the chamber. You should be able to see the rifling with no obstructions, pitting, etc. You may need to re-check this after you clean the barrel up a bit more. With the weapon Unloaded and pointed in a safe direction, cycle the action, put the weapon on safe and attempt to fire it (of course, it should not), then put the weapon on fire and attempt to fire (you should hear the hammer falling). There are probably some other things you can do, but without being familiar with your particular weapon I am going to stop there. If everything seems to work your rifle is probably in good working order, but unless you know 100 % that the rifle was in good shape when it went into the closet, it should still be checked out by a gunsmith to check the headspace/chamber dimensions, etc. which you just can't do without the proper tools (b/c it is possible something was wrong with the rifle and your grand father just put it away and forgot about it) .308 is a very good deer round and is perfectly fine for all but the most extreme distances (which most of us can't get hits at anyways). The rifle looks like it is a decent size/length which should make it well suited to moving through brush/trees. It has a good sling which is always important. The scope is probably the most likely part to be broken so if you can't hit anything try shooting with the Iron Sights. The weapon is a lever-action and it won't ever be a precision weapon, but I think you will find it can probably shoot better than you can and should do just fine at the range unless you need less than 3" groups at 100 yards or so. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 08-10-2009 at 12:32 PM..

08-10-2009, 01:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	I was told he was very fastidious when he had his wits about him (alzheimers), I also know that he is not the one who just put them in the closet for long term storage, so I guess it's a wash. I've already made sure it was unloaded, along with the other guns I've found in the house since we've been cleaning (a no name 20-gauge and an old, beat to hell arisaka he picked up during WWII). My understanding of the model 88 (from what I can find online) is that it is actually a bolt action operated by a lever (however that works), a kind of middle ground or best of both worlds philosophy. It also apparently went out of production in the 70s. Does anybody have any idea what it's going to cost a smith to just give it a good looking over? __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

08-10-2009, 01:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
G5_Todd Junkie Location: Reichstag	the biggest thing to look for will be rust...with anything stored that long i would expect to fine some... but you will definately need to break it down clean it and lube it...and if after you reassemble it do a functions check... __________________ "....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -General Franks

08-12-2009, 12:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	A quick look by a friendly gun smith should be cheap, probably about 20 bucks or so. All you need the smith to do is check the chamber and throat dimensions and look for hairline cracks real quick. If you look like a potential customer for ammunition/etc. they may check your weapon over for free. That Arisaka may be something special, I would pay attention (but not shoot) to that one also. What condition is it in? Slims __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

08-12-2009, 01:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Check out this site: Markings on Japanese Arisaka Rifles and Bayonets of World War II It looks like the Chrysanthemum may have been partially ground off on your rifle, which would indicate it was not captured in combat. But you need to check. If the flower stamp on top of the receiver is intact, it makes your rifle worth a lot more. From what I can see of the steel and furniture on that rifle it is in excellent shape. You can use the link I posted above to sort out where/when the rifle was made. The pre-war models were of high quality and may be worth quite a lot of money. The rifles produced towards the end of the war are often worth nearly nothing. Are there markings on the bolt? If they match the markings on the receiver that is a big plus. What's going on with the Muzzle? I can see that it is a different color, but I cannot see why in the photo. Is it a covering, corrosion? Slims __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

08-12-2009, 01:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	It's a covering, I was actually looking at the site as you posted (you're earlier post got me curious. As far as I can tell It's serial number matches earliest production in the page. (serial 000201XXXX (I'm not sure about the security of posting a gun serial online, but that should be enough to give you an idea). That puts it 1906-1935, probably late in that period given the very high number. It has the S instead of the B It's a type 38 from Koishikawa Arsenal (Tokyo) according to the symbol page. __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

08-12-2009, 05:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Got any more photos? Mum's at least partially there, dust-cover seems to be there from what I can see...could be a nice collector.

08-17-2009, 01:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	What sorts of photos are you looking for, I have the rifle and a camera so I could get any picture you want (except the serial). __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

08-17-2009, 01:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	A better shot of the mum, front and rear sights, rear of the bolt, any proofs or cartouches, and if possible the crown of the barrel. Might even be able to point you towards a collector, if you're interested in selling.