My choice for around the house...

MOSSBERG 500 Mariner Tactical (still a newb, can't post link)

Of course, I live on the water- hell, with the right tide, I live in the water- but the 'marinecote' finish holds up really really well, and the stock allows you to remove the adjustable M4 style stock and try it out as a pistol-grip. Then you can put it back on. Which you will.

Ramone

On the subject of choke and ammo, if you ever get a chance to fire 00 buck through a full choke into ballistics gel, do it. I haven't been able to, but I heard from people who have that your jaw will gape for a while when you see what it does.
Shit, I didn't know these were still around. Is it just me, or can Cobray's history be summed up by:

Cobray: Can we do this?
ATF: No
Cobray: How about if we do this instead?
ATF: No
Cobray: Now?
ATF: No
Cobray: What if I take this part off?
ATF: No
Cobray: And this part?
ATF: Ok, I guess ... but only this once.
Cobray; Woohoo! (puts gun into production)
(repeat for every gun they make)

Hahaha! Good summary. Yeah, the Street Sweeper is still around. It comes in the non-DD long gun version some places. There is even a a "pistol" version (much like the pistol version of short-barreled AKs you see today) where they simply chopped the stock and took the fore grip off. Good luck firing that bastard one handed, ya know?

I'm pretty sure the Street Sweeper and all variants are DDs these days..."No sporting purpose" and all that horseshit.

I strongly recommend against a pistol grip, or even a folding stock. They are just not practical for the average homeowner.

Unless your need for concealment outweighs the need for performance, don't bother with a folding stock.

That stock helps you instinctively line the shotgun up towards a target, absorbs recoil to facilitate follow up shots, provides stability for reloads, helps prevent bad habits, etc. It is important.

If you really want a 'shorter' shotgun, get one with a youth stock, or cut down a regular one, but don't get rid of it altogether. A folding stock will only complicate things for you, especially with a mossberg since they often cover the safety and/or the 'sights'.

I concur with the tactical guru.

Yeah, common sense suggests one defending their home isn't really concerned with concealment. White light and loud voices all the way for that situation.

The ease of handling associated with a pistol grip or folding stock shotgun is the video game myth I mentioned above: in the real world you need to anchor the gun to your shoulder with a substantial stock. If you want a shorter shotgun, the cheapest way to go about it is to get that $200 tax stamp and saw your Remington 870 barrel down flush with the mag tube (~14"). Time tested weapon design has shown again and again that the only realistic way to effectively shorten a weapon is to shorten the portion in front of the pistol grip by either chopping the barrel ("carbine"), making the action more compact (ex: Uzi bolt) or moving the action rearward (bullpup).

Folding stocks are generally weak, wobbly, and uncomfortable (think M1 paratrooper carbine, Butler Creek models for the Mini-14 or the retarded steel "Transformers" stock on the original Uzi that is only slightly less painful than prison rape). They're a crappy gimmick with few exceptions on the market and represent a huge weak point in a weapon's structural integrity as well as design philosophy. What good is something small and handy if you can't aim and fire it correctly? Short of PDW-style spray-and-pray weapons, they are inappropriate for most weapons and unnecessary for home defense.

The Speedfeed company produces a full solid stock with pistol grip (similar to the feel of the old M16A2) that is top notch. You'll see a similar setup on Benelli's tactical and newer hunting shotguns. An old school solid wood stock on a home defense shotgun is a good choice as well. The advantage of the solid stock with pistol grip combination over the traditional shotgun stock is, in my opinion, the stronger, straighter angle of the wrist and elbow. It's more comfortable, more natural, and handier.

+1 to the youth stock. Perfect option for shorter people or people in body armor. The key to success is having something substantial and solid to mount in your shoulder pocket at all times, something that a folding stock doesn't provide. While the length of pull may be way off and uncomfortable, it means at least you're not two-handing a long gun like a cheesy action movie hero.

If you have the money and can afford an expensive stock, the mostly-steel M4-style collapsing stock is an acceptable choice if you need something relatively compact. I was pleased with the FN TPS shotgun I played with for a few weeks. Keep in mind that the market is flooded with worth-shit clones, just as it is with every type of gun accessory. Never use anything as a stock that you can break by leaning on or dropping from shoulder height. The stuff made by Knoxx is quality, but expensive and overkill for home defense purposes.

A youth stock works for home defense. I'd agree that you don't need a folding stock on a home defense weapon. Any home defense weapon deserves a light (even might consider a laser - no substitute for training but they can be useful for home defense). If you can afford it you might want to get a vang comped barrel.

Any excuse to show my vang comped 870 with Lasermax:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...ough/shtgn.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...ugh/shtgn2.jpg

Nice setup, but Hogue long gun stocks always feel like sex toys to me.

What exactly is going on in the second picture? Is it a laser on my left and a light on my right?

Is it safe to say this thread has existed long enough without mention of the Remington 1740?

http://www.geocities.com/whencefreed...m1470motiv.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...y/P1060371.jpg

Build thread:
Remington 1740: My Project Begins. - THR

Edit: yes I know it's old, but the thread on THR is still live...the creator is looking in to making and selling kits! LOL

you got it.

When someone is breaking into my house, what do I go for...? For everyone I suppose it is different. As ex-military, I would personally take a 410 shotgun. Why? Because I can take someone out in my bedroom, and not worry about my kid sleeping in the next room. Period! You just want to drop the intruder, not your friend next door. A 410 will do the job but it will not go through two sheets of gyproc! It is very important for you to consider this, or you could wind up with a lot more trouble than just missing your TV.
Another reason is you don't have to be a great aim with a shotgun. You would be amazed at what people can miss at just 5 yards with a handgun, at a range! Throw in some stress and inexperience, that gun just might be taken away by the crook and then used on YOU!


What brand is good? Mossberg, Remington,Winchester... They are all good. Talk to a reputable gun shop. You are not looking for a service weapon. You might plink with it for a while, then it just ends up in the closet "just in case". Find something that feels comfortable and fits your budget.

What do I use? An empty Mossberg 500 Tactical! Nothing chills shit faster than hearing the action of a pump, the green laser really adds to it! Pretty much I will have to beat the bastard with it if he does not lie on the floor. If I shoot the bastard, I will lose my guns, probably be sued by the crook or his family, and/or go to jail. The laws protect whom???

At any rate, I am not recommending firearms for your home protection, I am merely answering your question. ANYTHING that you pull on an intruder has the potential to be used on YOU!
Good luck!

img183.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=65128_IMG_0214_122_186lo.jpg

That's one philosophy.

Um, a .410 loaded with OO buck will penetrate just as well as a 12 ga w/ OO buck. Slugs are even worse.

What load are you using? With birdshot, even a 12 Gauge will have trouble penetrating walls.

If recoil is the problem low recoil 12 Ga. rounds are available.

Rather than trying to force an unarmed home invader to the floor, maybe try asking him to just get out of your house instead. If he is armed then the law will protect you.

Thanks Slims. THAT is why I did not recommend firearms, or loads. If you miss standing in the middle of an 8X 10 bedroom, in an apartment building, you are taking a risk of hurting someone innocent. Loads, room size, or wall materials... there are too many variables for a generic answer. That is why you consult a reputable firearms dealer. They can assist in firearm and load selection for your particular situation.

Asking him to get out is a great idea. I would like to add, maybe lock yourself in the john and dial 911. This will give the police time to arrive if he decides he is not going anywhere. I prefer to try and hold them until the police arrive to prosecute. If he leaves, the little old lady down the road may not be so fortunate. Once again, this is a preference, not a recommendation.

If the intruder is armed or unarmed, the law will protect you. This is ONLY if the policeman is there right then and right there with you! Unfortunately, in most cases, the police involvement statistically occurs AFTER THE FACT. The police typically arrive and get involved AFTER the rape, AFTER the robbery, or AFTER the murder. Until there is a law enforcment member actually WITH you, YOU are on your own!

“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” - Sigmund Freud

General thread consensus:

12 gauge with any size buckshot works just fine. Handguns work fine, too.

Avoid using a FN FAL or Barrett M107 if your home has thin walls.

/puts thread to bed

Dude. Really? Even buckshot fired from a modified choke wont spread to more than 1.5 ft @ 25 yards. At 15 feet the shot pattern is about the size of your fist. Its fairly easy to miss with a shotgun.

Fear of having your weapon turned on you is a poor excuse for carrying an unloaded weapon. Practice weapons retention and combatives. Practice stress shooting. Practice shooting while moving, from behind cover, reloading, failure drills, etc. Practice clearing your house like you would if you were to awake to bumps in the night.

I cannot fathom using an unloaded weapon as some sort of psychological deterrent. Youre just asking for someone to call your bluff and you wont be prepared when they do. If I were a Bad Guy, I wouldnt break into a house that I knew to be occupied unless I was armed and willing to kill someone.

If I heard a shotgun being pumped, I would start shooting through walls and doors as I broke contact.

If I saw a little green laser in an otherwise dark house, I would start shooting at the source of the laser. Again, through walls if need be.

WillRavel? Is that you? We are referring to bold street criminals in this thread, not 18Bs.

You dont have to be a Bearded Hero to put rounds through a door. Just ask the 17 year old douchebag that killed Sean Taylor.

Research and Buy a weapon you like... Then practice, practice, Practice to the (point) you can hit what you aim at consistently. Enough Said...

well, i know most people think Taurus builds a dandy boat anchor, but check out there site (not been here long enough to link) under revolvers, scroll down and look at the 410 shotshell and .45 colt section.
would make dandy home defense weapons. 5 rounds, start with birdshot, and work up to slugs.


personally, because i've not been able to afford such a gun yet, i keep a single shot 410 in the semi-ready stage for home defense, just cock and fire. i figure that, across the room, a 3 inch shell worth of birdshot will distract anyone long enough for me to get my glasses on and move up to more precise weapons.

No, it wouldn't.

The question has been asked before, the results are in....and birdshot out of a pistol is slightly less effective than simply throwing the pistol at the assailant.

Even 12 Ga birdshot out of a full sized shotgun has very limited effectiveness and relies almost entirely on the shot acting as a single unit. The .410 pistol doesn't have a large enough payload, very low velocity (due to the short barrel) and such a high rate of 'spread' due to the rifling the shot won't impact as a 'mass' and will most likely not even slow an attacker down.

Taurus makes a lot of nice, reasonably priced weapons which people tend to discount, and that .410 pistol would be just the ticket if I worked on a ranch and had to kill snakes frequently as well as larger animals from time to time. The pistol you refer to would not be too bad if loaded with .45 colt, but I wouldn't trust it at all with birdshot.

Don't count on 'distractions', plan on flat out incapacitation. If you plan on making it physically impossible for an assailant to continue an attack, you are probably thinking along the right lines. If you are relying on distracting someone you may very well be very surprised to find they are more committed to the fight than ever (and while holding an empty gun).

I know of several instances where an assailant was severely wounded and instead of slowing down, responded (probably due to the additional adrenaline) with increased aggression until they were killed/truly incapacitated.

Apparently you haven't seen the new Max Payne movie. Marky Mark is rocking the Tarus Judge and it hits like a 155 shooting "bee-hive" loads.

Seriously, though. Why not leave the shotgun work to a proper shotgun?

think one of these would work well for home defense?

http://www.serbu.com/top/super_shorty_870.jpg

comes in mossberg 500 or remington 870.

Is that a serious question or are you trying to bait us gun-nuts?


I have used an 870 with a 10 inch barrel and I am much better off with a pistol or with a full sized shotgun.

Only if you like BDSM. :D

thats a 16 inch shotgun, overall length. i REALLY, REALLY want to fire one of those damn things. you know, just curious. i wasnt trying to "bait" anyone. just thought it could be nice for protecting the home, perhaps intimidation.

looks like recoil would be a bitch, though.


Kirstang, Ha. im no fan of that.

Ok, here's why it is less than ideal.

Recoil, surprisingly isn't that big of an issue as your arms just move to absorb it (though the gun does jump around a lot and will greatly slow follow up shots).

What causes problems is the fact that you basically have to shoot it from the hip and it is very difficult to get accurate hits while shooting in that manner. It doesn't have a stock so you can't shoot it like a full sized shotgun, and you can't straighten both arms out like a pistol so you are forced, basically, to not aim. The addition of the forward pistol grip (folded up in the pic) further ensures you will have very little directional control over the weapon.

Second, I believe that gun has a 3 round capacity, which is far less than ideal for defense (though granted, most of the time the first round will end the fight).

Third, it requires both your hands to operate properly. You will have a hard time opening doors, pushing an attacker back to create space, etc.

i would only be using something like that only if i were sure someone were in my house. dont need to be a crack shot to hit someone from 10-15 feet with a shotgun no matter where you shoot it from.

if im shooting from the hip, creating space shouldnt be a problem.

You watch too many movies. At 10-15 feet the shotgun's only advantage over a single slug weapon is damage, not spread.

edit: Ironically, the serbu super shorty has much wider spread than normal due to short barrel length, so it may redeem itself. I'm looking for exact numbers.

If you haven't actually done it before be careful. I have seen plenty of 'good' shooters screwing around with breeching shotguns (10 inch barrels) unable to hit a man sized target reliably at about 21 ft. from the hip. Add to that the excitement, adrenaline, fear and urgency of a life or death encounter, darkness, inexperience (how many hundreds of practice rounds shooting from the hip do you really plan on shooting?) and confusion...you will miss more often than you think, even with a shotgun. Having a stock on a weapon greatly reduces this as it provides a stable platform and a natural gun-target alignment. Likewise with a pistol when you push that gun out in front of you you immediately have more directional control and a better alignment with the target than you will ever get shooting any weapon from the hip.

Here's what I meant by creating space: you are walking through your house when you get hit sideways by your attacker. Having both hands down at your waist and your shotgun pointed away from the intruder does not make a very good starting position for that type of encounter. At that moment you are unable to bring your weapon to bear against your attacker until you create enough distance between you and him to bring the shotgun around. And if it discharges during the struggle/or you miss you will likely be unable to chamber another round as you have to have both hands free.

or i shoot to much. (3 out of 5 pidgins from the hip. oh skeet skeet motherfucker, oh skeet skeet goddamn.)

ill take your word for it, slims. i wasnt actually planning on buying this thing, just thought id stir up some convo about short shottys. i dont have the money for this right now.

edit: it'd be a neat toy, though.

edit numbuh two: i usually grab my little smith and wesson or a simple mop handle to confront awkward home noises. on occasions (when i hear a noise that makes me go WTF) ill grab the 3 inch mag.

shot guns are my forte.

Alright, difference being, you're not going to be flinging bird shot, and 'social' distances are much shorter than skeeting distances. 5" buckshot spread does not an accuracy-compensating wall of lead make.

i could hit him...but thats not the point.

i just wanted to gather opinions on that short little fucker.

looks like i wont be purchasing one. (if i had the cash, that is)

If you're using .410, at least use buckshot or slugs. Pretty much the same as a .45, but more than one comes out at the same time.
Don't use a Title II gun for self defense unless you have a pile of $50k around for legal fees. You will at least be seeing a grand jury if not criminal prosecution.

thompson contender - .45 / .410 - either one will work

Shotgun? Pfft... go for the Uzi 9mm. Gunshop dude in Terminator said it was perfect for home defense.

For people who use Birdshot for the HD shotgun, don't.

Believer now---changing to buckshot - TheFiringLine Forums

X-ray tech reporting that birdshot to hand--no birdshot exited the person's palm. Consequently, using birdshot against a determined attacker = birdshot lodged in ribcage? I would not chance it.

Wow, this thread is like the town bar whore... the one that we all keep coming back to for another round when we're lonely. :D

...

KirStang, doesn't take a genius to understand that birdshot isn't going to do any real damage to a human-sized target. I've been hit in the face by child-stealing-sized large insects while doing 90+ on my Sabre (*SLAP!*) and I'm sure it hurt about the same as birdshot. It's a simple mass + velocity equation.

Should you use it in your home defense shotgun? Probably not, but it also depends on your intent with the shot and overall philosophy.

Are you trying to scare / piss off an attacker or kill them? The boring old what you can get away with legally proud homicidal type argument aside... the escalation of force doesn't always have to be zero to kill in one trigger squeeze. It may be philosophy of many here because they have a wife and kids, but I'll play devil's advocate and suggest that a hit with anything will send 90% of attackers heading for the nearest door / window / prone position.

I'd rather scare the shit outta Mr. Burglar than kill him and deal with all the bullshit paperwork. Granted, I'll have that hot-hot plan to neutralize him should he not be sufficiently impressed by the muzzle end of a 12 gauge, but killing someone isn't something I'd want to do in my residence. Too messy.

I keep the Mossberg 590 (Rem 870, etc.) loaded with Sellier & Bellot rubber 00 buckshot for that reason. If an intruder can take that up close and still possesses the desire to keep coming, they're entitled to the next magical surprise in the mag tube: Federal copper-plated lead 00 buckshot.

...

Now, keep in mind that I'm a big operatactistrategery dummy... and I throw that out there so as to not come off as another gun-board Know-It-All (KIA).

I haven't had a chance to read through all the replies, so sorry if this has already been said.

I have a shotgun on my side of the bed (my husband has the handgun) because I wear contacts. I don't really have good vision without them.

In the event of an extreme emergency, I can see well enough to aim in the general direction and the spread pattern will hit something, that is the theory anyway.

Luckily we have never had to test this theory, but if you need vision correction, a shotgun and a handgun might both be good. There might not always be time to put on glasses, or if they get knocked off or broken and there certainly won't be time to put in contacts.

Halanna, if I may reccomend some glasses and a light for your shotgun. I believe people have accidently shot loved ones in the dark before because they could not determine who was running around in the dark. :)

To add to that, Cromp, you have a point. Paperwork aside, some guy shot his wife with birdshot, thinking she was a burglar (men being men >_<), she ended up with a lot of fleshwounds, but survived. Had it been buckshot it would have probably severed her aorta.

In the event of an extreme emergency, I know where my husband will be, where my son will be and they both know where I will be.

Because of my vision impairment, we have established a code word system, if my husband yells red front door, I can't shoot at the front door. If I hear "red right!" from him or my son, I know I can't shoot to my right.

If he yells green dining room, or green left, that means shoot toward the dining room or to my left. It's that simple.

My vision isn't that bad, but bad enough that I can't aim at center mass, I just probably won't be right, I just point and pull at "green".

This is in the event of a home invasion, which is most unlikely, thank goodness.

However, in the event of a home invasion, both my husband and my son are quite accurate shots, they are going to have to subdue them both before I have to actually shoot.

My job is standby, and shoot at shouted targets. This is obviously not ideal, it works for us. We live in the hurricane state, we are used to practice and "what to do in an emergency" scenarios.

I find it a little confusing and, ok, I'll admit, quite strange, that someone can shoot a loved one. Do they not know who is in their home and where they are? I just can't see that scenario. I'm sorry.