Explain to me why I shouldn't buy a Savage or Marlin .22 LR for <$200 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

MooseMan3000 · 11-01-2006, 04:43 PM

Here's the situation.

Girlfriend, never fired any sort of weapon before, wants to learn how to shoot.

Me, never owned any weapons other than air rifles and air pistols, though I have fired a variety of centerfire rifles and shotguns, as well as a few .22s.

We want the gun primarily for plinking, and to show her the basics of gun safety, care, and handling. This is not a long term investment, because if she gets into it, she wants to eventually look into small caliber handguns. Again, this is to get her familiar with guns and gun safety, primarily, along with basic marksmanship.

If this goes well, and the interest stays after a few months, I'll go in for a .22 pistol of some sort, to get both of us familiarized with handgun care and handling. After that, we'll start looking into rentals to figure out what sort of guns we'd actually like to own. Again, the .22 would be just in the interim, to become familiar with shooting.

I want .22 for two reasons: 1) it's very easy to shoot. Virtually no recoil, so it's good to get started and develop good habits for higher bore rounds. 2) Ammunition is cheap and easy to come by. If I have to spend $50 every time I go to the range just to squeeze off a few rounds, I won't ever go.

I know all of you like your Ruger .22 LRs and your Browning Buck Mark pistols. I'm sure they're very nice guns, but the cheapest I can find anything is about $350 for the basic Browning Buck Mark Standard, and the Rugers start over $600. Or I can get a Ruger pistol for about $300.

Add to this another factor: gun shops are not readily available in my area. The closest "gun shop" is about an hour drive, which, while not impossible, is a bit of a pain in the ass. Within reasonable distance I have Wal-Mart and Dick's sporting goods, and that's pretty much it. The pawn shops in my area are extremely sketchy, too (but again, which ones aren't?), and I don't know enough about guns to know what to look for in a used one. So buying used is probably out of the question, at least for now.

So my basic idea is this: I buy a $150 .22 from Wal Mart or Dick's (they probably even have the same models). I buy a coupla bricks of ammo for another $50 or so (maybe less. I haven't looked into that much), and we can shoot the whole day without worrying about cost. If a month down the road, she finds that she has no more interest in shooting, well damn. But I'm out less than half the cost of a better gun. If she's really into it, then no big loss, as she's eventually looking for a good handgun, anyway.

So... thoughts?

Oh, and I know she should take a safety course (I'll probably take it with her as a refresher). That's given. And I will probably need to buy the gun, since nobody in my area provides rentals. I have to travel close to two hours to get to a range that rents guns (unless I missed one, but I doubt it)

kel · 11-01-2006, 04:57 PM

Pistol, Ruger MKII for 230 dollars, they are out there and not hard to find, try private sale. Nothing wrong with the MKI either. My local dealer has them ranging from 189 to 250.
Rifle, I am partial to the CZ bolt actions and Ruger 10/22.
My local dealer has them ranging from 174 to 279.

I purchased my CZ 452FS for 330 new, it goes for 360 or so now. Fantastic and my number 1 pick. This is an extremely high quality rifle and a steal at the price they offer it.

You aren't looking hard enough for used guns, they are where it's at.

I recommend you do some good reading, even the manual is a good start, they always lay down all the important rules and if you do EVERYTHING in that manual to the letter (which includes basic gun safety) you can't go wrong. That being said I think the course should come before ownership. Said as an NRA basic pistol instructor.

dksuddeth · 11-02-2006, 06:43 AM

buying guns to learn can be a good investment, but you 'might' want to try going to a range first, one where they will rent you the weapon. It's relatively inexpensive to do so. By doing so, you can first find out if you actually enjoy it and won't end up with a gun you can do nothing with if you find you don't enjoy it.

sasKuach · 11-06-2006, 01:30 PM

I agree with renting first.

Also, look at the Walther P22 (.22 pistol), it's got the ergonomics and controls of a larger gun, if that's the direction you want to go eventually. I got mine for just under $300, but that was the target model which costs a bit more.
pictures on google

I love my Marlin .22 bolt action.

If you don't know anything about guns, stay away from used ones until your 2nd or 3rd gun.

Rob

Cynthetiq · 11-06-2006, 02:30 PM

i love firing the 22s

they were fun and a good way to teach good range and gun handling habits.

Slims · 11-07-2006, 05:34 PM

Your plan sounds excellent. I have a whole bunch of nice rifles and pistols that I cannot afford to shoot frequently because the ammunition is so expensive. It is not difficult to run through 500 rounds in an afternoon (unless you are budget conscious). You can find a decent used .22 rifle for $100 or maybe even a little less. A simple bolt action .22 is easy and cheap to make well. Don't buy a bottom of the barrel .22 pistol...you will probably regret it. Browning and Ruger both make excellent pistols, and you can find them for a good discount used, but stay away from the really cheap off-brands. Also remember that whatever you buy, you will probably be able to sell it for close to your purchase price so you will really only be out money for the ammunition.

Taking care of a firearm also has a learning curve...which solvents melt your expensive polymer frame, how often you really need to oil them to keep them from rusting, how to avoid wearing a grove in the muzzle from your cleaning rod, etc. It wouldn't hurt to make your initial mistakes on a less expensive, more forgiving firearm like a smallbore rifle.

A long gun (rifle) is a good place to start. Since both of you are relatively new to shooting a rifle is probably your best bet, at least initially. And a .22lr is probably the best caliber as well.

I recommend a rifle because it is more difficult to make the sort of stupid mistake that results in someone getting shot. Trust me when I tell you that a lot of beginners do some really off the wall things with a pistol which are just less likely to happen with a rifle. For instance, if you are standing next to someone with a pistol, it is very easy to turn and point it at them if you have a problem or get distracted; the length of a rifle makes that more difficult. Also, you very rarely hear of people shooting themselves with their rifles, but it happens with pistols all the time. You should know and expect to obey the rules of gun safety, but realize that beginners (especially unsupervised ones) are likely to make unintentional mistakes.

.22lr is probably the best cartridge to start out on for several reasons:
1: It is cheap enough you can afford to shoot it lots. If you learn to shoot with a .22 you will be able to transition to a higher caliber weapon fairly easily. But if you buy a higher caliber weapon you may not be able to afford to shoot it enough to develop any real skill.

2: It has low noise and recoil: Noise and recoil are the biggest contributors to bad habits. People start to anticipate them and eventually will eventually develop a flinch that will haunt them for the rest of their shooting career. It is also much easier to evaluate shot placement, follow through, etc. with a weapon that doesn't knock you around.

3: It is non-threatening for your girlfriend. My wife and I took a neighbor and his wife out shooting not too long ago. We made the mistake of assuming that she had shot before and when she saw me shoot my .40 cal. pistol she started to cry and refused to shoot. We had to go back and get her a .22 so she could participate without being afraid.

After you have both become acustomed to shooting you will have a better understanding of where your needs lie and what your next purchase should be. For defense you may at that time want to look into more effective calibers, but only if your lady is willing and able to handle them. Also, just by spending some time at the range you will be able to see what other people are using and probably get some good instruction and ideas.

squirrelyburt · 11-15-2006, 03:15 PM

I have owned a Marlin Model 60 for many years, Dad won it when I was about 7... shot thousands of rounds and it still shoots very well. I just bought my son a Savage bolt action, and I actually like it better than the semi - auto, very accurate little gun. I think I paid $130 at a sporting goods store. Wal Mart has good prices compared to gun shops, same guns.

Renting a gun doesn't happen where I live, that I know of, but thats a good option to try different guns to see what fits

11-01-2006, 04:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
MooseMan3000 wouldn't mind being a ninja. Location: Maine, the Other White State.	Explain to me why I shouldn't buy a Savage or Marlin .22 LR for <$200 Here's the situation. Girlfriend, never fired any sort of weapon before, wants to learn how to shoot. Me, never owned any weapons other than air rifles and air pistols, though I have fired a variety of centerfire rifles and shotguns, as well as a few .22s. We want the gun primarily for plinking, and to show her the basics of gun safety, care, and handling. This is not a long term investment, because if she gets into it, she wants to eventually look into small caliber handguns. Again, this is to get her familiar with guns and gun safety, primarily, along with basic marksmanship. If this goes well, and the interest stays after a few months, I'll go in for a .22 pistol of some sort, to get both of us familiarized with handgun care and handling. After that, we'll start looking into rentals to figure out what sort of guns we'd actually like to own. Again, the .22 would be just in the interim, to become familiar with shooting. I want .22 for two reasons: 1) it's very easy to shoot. Virtually no recoil, so it's good to get started and develop good habits for higher bore rounds. 2) Ammunition is cheap and easy to come by. If I have to spend $50 every time I go to the range just to squeeze off a few rounds, I won't ever go. I know all of you like your Ruger .22 LRs and your Browning Buck Mark pistols. I'm sure they're very nice guns, but the cheapest I can find anything is about $350 for the basic Browning Buck Mark Standard, and the Rugers start over $600. Or I can get a Ruger pistol for about $300. Add to this another factor: gun shops are not readily available in my area. The closest "gun shop" is about an hour drive, which, while not impossible, is a bit of a pain in the ass. Within reasonable distance I have Wal-Mart and Dick's sporting goods, and that's pretty much it. The pawn shops in my area are extremely sketchy, too (but again, which ones aren't?), and I don't know enough about guns to know what to look for in a used one. So buying used is probably out of the question, at least for now. So my basic idea is this: I buy a $150 .22 from Wal Mart or Dick's (they probably even have the same models). I buy a coupla bricks of ammo for another $50 or so (maybe less. I haven't looked into that much), and we can shoot the whole day without worrying about cost. If a month down the road, she finds that she has no more interest in shooting, well damn. But I'm out less than half the cost of a better gun. If she's really into it, then no big loss, as she's eventually looking for a good handgun, anyway. So... thoughts? Oh, and I know she should take a safety course (I'll probably take it with her as a refresher). That's given. And I will probably need to buy the gun, since nobody in my area provides rentals. I have to travel close to two hours to get to a range that rents guns (unless I missed one, but I doubt it)

11-01-2006, 04:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	Pistol, Ruger MKII for 230 dollars, they are out there and not hard to find, try private sale. Nothing wrong with the MKI either. My local dealer has them ranging from 189 to 250. Rifle, I am partial to the CZ bolt actions and Ruger 10/22. My local dealer has them ranging from 174 to 279. I purchased my CZ 452FS for 330 new, it goes for 360 or so now. Fantastic and my number 1 pick. This is an extremely high quality rifle and a steal at the price they offer it. You aren't looking hard enough for used guns, they are where it's at. I recommend you do some good reading, even the manual is a good start, they always lay down all the important rules and if you do EVERYTHING in that manual to the letter (which includes basic gun safety) you can't go wrong. That being said I think the course should come before ownership. Said as an NRA basic pistol instructor. __________________ "It better be funny" Last edited by kel; 11-01-2006 at 05:00 PM..

11-02-2006, 06:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	buying guns to learn can be a good investment, but you 'might' want to try going to a range first, one where they will rent you the weapon. It's relatively inexpensive to do so. By doing so, you can first find out if you actually enjoy it and won't end up with a gun you can do nothing with if you find you don't enjoy it. __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

11-06-2006, 02:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	i love firing the 22s they were fun and a good way to teach good range and gun handling habits. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

11-07-2006, 05:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Your plan sounds excellent. I have a whole bunch of nice rifles and pistols that I cannot afford to shoot frequently because the ammunition is so expensive. It is not difficult to run through 500 rounds in an afternoon (unless you are budget conscious). You can find a decent used .22 rifle for $100 or maybe even a little less. A simple bolt action .22 is easy and cheap to make well. Don't buy a bottom of the barrel .22 pistol...you will probably regret it. Browning and Ruger both make excellent pistols, and you can find them for a good discount used, but stay away from the really cheap off-brands. Also remember that whatever you buy, you will probably be able to sell it for close to your purchase price so you will really only be out money for the ammunition. Taking care of a firearm also has a learning curve...which solvents melt your expensive polymer frame, how often you really need to oil them to keep them from rusting, how to avoid wearing a grove in the muzzle from your cleaning rod, etc. It wouldn't hurt to make your initial mistakes on a less expensive, more forgiving firearm like a smallbore rifle. A long gun (rifle) is a good place to start. Since both of you are relatively new to shooting a rifle is probably your best bet, at least initially. And a .22lr is probably the best caliber as well. I recommend a rifle because it is more difficult to make the sort of stupid mistake that results in someone getting shot. Trust me when I tell you that a lot of beginners do some really off the wall things with a pistol which are just less likely to happen with a rifle. For instance, if you are standing next to someone with a pistol, it is very easy to turn and point it at them if you have a problem or get distracted; the length of a rifle makes that more difficult. Also, you very rarely hear of people shooting themselves with their rifles, but it happens with pistols all the time. You should know and expect to obey the rules of gun safety, but realize that beginners (especially unsupervised ones) are likely to make unintentional mistakes. .22lr is probably the best cartridge to start out on for several reasons: 1: It is cheap enough you can afford to shoot it lots. If you learn to shoot with a .22 you will be able to transition to a higher caliber weapon fairly easily. But if you buy a higher caliber weapon you may not be able to afford to shoot it enough to develop any real skill. 2: It has low noise and recoil: Noise and recoil are the biggest contributors to bad habits. People start to anticipate them and eventually will eventually develop a flinch that will haunt them for the rest of their shooting career. It is also much easier to evaluate shot placement, follow through, etc. with a weapon that doesn't knock you around. 3: It is non-threatening for your girlfriend. My wife and I took a neighbor and his wife out shooting not too long ago. We made the mistake of assuming that she had shot before and when she saw me shoot my .40 cal. pistol she started to cry and refused to shoot. We had to go back and get her a .22 so she could participate without being afraid. After you have both become acustomed to shooting you will have a better understanding of where your needs lie and what your next purchase should be. For defense you may at that time want to look into more effective calibers, but only if your lady is willing and able to handle them. Also, just by spending some time at the range you will be able to see what other people are using and probably get some good instruction and ideas. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 11-07-2006 at 05:39 PM..

11-06-2006, 01:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
sasKuach Tilted	I agree with renting first. Also, look at the Walther P22 (.22 pistol), it's got the ergonomics and controls of a larger gun, if that's the direction you want to go eventually. I got mine for just under $300, but that was the target model which costs a bit more. pictures on google I love my Marlin .22 bolt action. If you don't know anything about guns, stay away from used ones until your 2nd or 3rd gun. Rob

11-15-2006, 03:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
squirrelyburt Crazy Location: Central Wisconsin	I have owned a Marlin Model 60 for many years, Dad won it when I was about 7... shot thousands of rounds and it still shoots very well. I just bought my son a Savage bolt action, and I actually like it better than the semi - auto, very accurate little gun. I think I paid $130 at a sporting goods store. Wal Mart has good prices compared to gun shops, same guns. Renting a gun doesn't happen where I live, that I know of, but thats a good option to try different guns to see what fits __________________ If you've ever felt there was a reason to be afraid of the dark, you were right.