SiN

Yo!

The time has come

i've got to make this post quick, on my way out the door to work..

The Task:

I've decided on an Athlon 64 system, seems to be a good value.
We are on a budget!!@!
Total should be no more than 500$.

(not including keybo, mouse, monitor, hdd's, gfx card (agp). these things i already have or have already decided on what to purchase)

We need:

CPU
Mobo
Mem
Case
PSU
DVD-ROM
DVD-RW

I want/hope to get a silver case/build a silver puter.
that would limit my optical drive options , to an Asus dvd-rom, and the NEC 3540 burner.
I still need to shop around, so far been mostly to newegg, which is a bitch-and-a-half to browse on my mom's ancient macintosh, which is what i'm using for the time being.

anyways:

socket 754 or 939?
I'm thinking a 3000+ proc, which right now on newegg the 939 is cheaper.
I will be getting a budget board, not sure how good it would be if i want to upgrade proc later if i go with 939 (dual-core etc).

mem - the corsair valueselect 1 gig ddr 400 package on newegg looks good. am i wrong?

board - msi makes a cheap one, eh, i'll need to get back to this one research wise unless someone's got a suggestion offhand for a board under 100$

PSU - newegg has a Sparkle 350W for 30$. afaik a decent brand ... not sure what wattage i'll need.
i'll be powering 2hdd's for now, and may likely be adding 1-2 sata disks in the future, i will need more storage, just can't invest now.

case - i figure under 40$ should do me. silver. because it's sexy.

allright, i'll submit now, will be working on this alll weekend, i hope i can get some helpful advises.

Update to post : More Infos!!

The things I remembered that I forgot to mention -

Use

Mostly need a machine capable of ordinary multitasking .. which i know most any will do (1-2 firefoxes with a few tabs, a text editor, irc client, im prog, winamp, watch video, run download programs (azureus, emule plus, newsleecher, soulseek) ... thats what i tend to have going on most always.
But!
I do fairly often re-encode video! (usually dvd -> xvid). That's one of the main reasons i want a proc that can handle occasional heavy loads. I may want to re-encode while using my computer. I may want to compress/uncompress some files while re-encoding. maybe make/check some sfv's too. All at once. Oh, and I do play with photoshop sometimes as well.
So - that's the main reason I want a proc with balls. I don't want to get annoyed/impatient/whatever ...
I want something that can handle whatever I may choose to throw at it.
fwiw .. the last computer I used was a 2.4 P4, 400 fsb, 768 mem ... and I want something that really feels like an upgrade.

Video card

Eh, it is shameful, really. but I knew I wouldn't get outta this one without admitting my pos gfx
Radeon 9550 128 MB.

yeah yeah...

As of now, I would like to be able to do some gaming, don't know what games yet, have not played many games so far in my life, but I've played a bit of WoW and C & C games, and UT 2k4.
That's about as much as my card can handle, afaik ... I am open to eventually upgrading my card to a better AGP one... I don't know exactly what my upgrade plans are in general with this computer, but I'm sure I will .. at some point. of course.

Allright - I hope this helps a bit on the advises.
duh, sorry i posted in a hurry before

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connyosis

Socket 939 absolutely. 3200+ is not too expensive.
A pretty cheap but still very good mobo is Abit AV8, me and some friends all have this and it works flawlessly.
A 350W PSU sounds a little weak though. A good quality PSU is an important (If not the most important) part of your system. FSP makes really high quality ones without being super expensive. A 400W from FSP is probably a good choice.

__________________
If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

MikeSty

I don't advise getting corsair value select. I've bought two 1GB kits, one DDR for my family, one DDR2 for my gaming rig ...... the DDR kit had over one hundred million errors on it. The Value Select line is a decent deal if the RAM is good, but there's a good chance it will be total crap, no other way to look at it. If you want no risk of returning it, buy higher quality RAM that's been tested.

I have an MSI tuner card, and I absolutely hate it. The quality sucked, but if that's not an issue, it's the crappy, poorly translated documentation. Supplimental equipment was lacking. I hear their mobos are pretty good though.

This case isn't silver, but it pwns hardcore:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811154048

Any case called SK337 is worth $30. It's such a great budget case. Black with silver trim, very, very handsome. The only thing that irked me was the lack of FP-firewire. It has a slot, but no header to female jack cable :-/ The PSU that comes with it is good.

If I'm able to convince you into getting the SK337 case, I'd also reccomend my black NEC-3500AG. Does everything you ask it to!

BTW check www.zipzoomfly.com, one of my favorite sites. I'll probably post some more reccomendations later.

Lasereth

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Socket 939 - $146
Abit AV8 Mobo - $100
Corsair Value 1 GB PC3200 - $104
Case - $30 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811156019
Enermax 370w Noisetaker PSU (best PSU brand, period) $44
NEC 3540 - $50
Asus CD-S520-A5 - $17

That comes out to $491. I personally think there's no reason to buy an Athlon 64 unless you want to have a really nice gaming machine, but if you want a really nice gaming machine, the RAM and videocard matter way more than the CPU. So basically, I can't advise getting an Athlon 64 unless you have a videocard that can keep up. A processor alone isn't gonna help out in games unless you have a good videocard and lots of RAM. You can't tell the difference between an Athlon XP system and an Athlon 64 system within Windows...the only time the 64 really shines is in games at extremely high settings or in photoshop-type applications.

Either way, that's a pretty formidable system for under $500. Can you list the specs of your videocard? I can't stress enough that the Athlon 64 is gonna be a complete waste unless you want to play games at really high settings with a really nice videocard. Might as well step down to an Athlon XP and buy 2 GB of RAM if you don't have a nice videocard.

The Corsair value ram is fine unless you want to overclock. Overclocking and "budget" don't mix together, so I assume you're not. I'm using 2 GB of the Corsair and it's perfectly fine. I'd recommend it to anyone that isn't gonna overclock.

The case is identical to mine but silver. I love mine. It's easy to work with and the front looks nice.

Don't let anyone say that a 350w PSU isn't gonna be enough. It's all about the brand. Any Sparkle or Enermax PSU is gonna power your system easily. I might upgrade the PSU to a 400w if you're gonna get more than 2 HDD's later, though. I've had nothing but spectacular performance with every Enermax PSU I've seen, especially the Noisetaker series.

The motherboard is what you need, plain and simple. The cheaper Socket 939 motherboards don't have AGP slots or are missing something integral to the PC being upgradeable.

Can you list what videocard you have? I really wanna know, because an Athlon 64 is overkill for most people. CPUs power games by 10-15%. The videocard is 40% and the RAM is 45%. Buying an Athlon 64 if you have a budget videocard is like buying racing tires for a 4-cylinder Ford.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

bendsley

Personally, I like this case. It's going to be the next one I purchase.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811112051

__________________
"You hear the one about the fella who died, went to the pearly gates? St. Peter let him in. Sees a guy in a suit making a closing argument. Says, "Who's that?" St. Peter says, "Oh, that's God. Thinks he's Denny Crane."

optik_nerve

Totally reminds me of a PowerMac.

PowerMac G5


Other case.



...well...kinda

MikeSty

Nah Lian-Li's pwn

SiN

y'all need to shush, a silver Lian-Li is my dream case ... and waaay over budget

anyone wanna buy me one?

...

Anyways, I've updated my original post with some crucial infos, I hope that helps.

And thanks Lasereth, your post in particular is very helpful!

The case you linked, I saw it when I was browsing before, I do like it, and might end up getting that one.

I am certain I'll be adding 1-2 hdd's in the future, so perhaps I should go 400W on the PSU.

I still need to research the boards.

Alright, I'm going to do some more browsing ... thx MikeSty for the zipzoomfly link, I knew there were other sites that I always see people mention in these kinda threads, just couldn't think of em. I'll also have a look @ tigerdirect, and pricewatch of course.

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MikeSty

zipzoomfly pwns because of free 2nd day shipping

SiN

Oh - about the DVD-Rom drive ... I'm thinking ... would a black dvd-rom look silly in a silver case?
that would open up my options .. I will be using it a LOT - I have a large data archive on dvd, and will continue to use dvd's as my main archive method.
So - I need a dvd-rom that can handle lots of use, one that reads very well, etc.
I will check around for reviews and stuff, but if anybody has any suggestions offhand ..?

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MikeSty

Eh, you could pull off a black dvd drive in a silver case, but I'd say it would look like crap. I think there are SILVER NEC-3500AG's

I will say this though - from what I can tell, black is black. It doesn't appear as though everyone can agree on what is silver :-/

SiN

Mike - i'm taking about the dvd-rom, not the dvd-rw.

the dvd-rw is 95% likely to be the silver nec-3540.

look like crap, eh?

it needs to look good ... but it needs to function as i need it to.

but, I don't want her (the puter) to be laughed at or teased or anything

(can you tell that this machine is somehow going to be an extension of myself, and I will identify with her as such? )

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MikeSty

Wait, why do you need two drives? :-/

BTW if anyone laughs at your comp, that's incentive enough to kill them on site.

SiN

I need two optical drives because I don't want to wear out my burner by reading dvd's with it.
and I may want to have a disk in the dvd-rom, that I'm using for whatever reason, and be burning.

trust me, I need 2.

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cyrnel

I don't think your existing system has been brought up? Can you pull a drive or any other parts from it? Buyers of used boxes don't pay much for 2nd opticals. For things that don't change much - like a dvd reader - it's tough to justify selling old and buying new unless yours is positively ancient.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

SiN

cyrnel - my old box is in Germany, I'm in the USA now

I took my hdd's, gfx card, and ran


..............

Anyways, time to update and stuff. (I've been working on this all morning ...)

Lemme explain better why I'm so keen on good opticals :
I have currently a dvd'd data archive of 1002 gigs. no, that is not a typo.
I will always find more to download. (and I will have a fast dsl connxn).
dvd's are cheaper than hdd's for storage.
I also want to get in the habit of backing up whatever I keep on the hdd's.


now, speaking of opticals ...
I've decided to say 'fuck silver optical bezels'. Performance matters more. (and price).

The DVD-ROM will most likely be the Lite-On 16p9s. 20$ shipped from newegg.
THe RW will be either the Lite-On 1693s (40$) or the BenQ 1640 (47$).
Decisions based on reading at cdfreaks forums, mostly.

....

Other stuff :

Mobo - probably going to go for the Abit AV8. Seems like a good board, and the price is good (newegg has it for 99.50 before a 25$ rebate). So now it matches pricewise with the cheapy msi I was looking at, and is assumably a better board.

Mem - still likely going for the 1 gig corsair value kit from newegg (2x512). ~90$.

Proc - Still thinking the A64 3000+ Venice ... it's 146 @ newegg ... the 3200+ is 190$, and I'm not sure the performance increase would justify the price diff.

....

Still working on the case and psu.

I'm leaning towards the Enermax Noisetaker 375w from newegg for 44$ plus ship ...
since I'm still not sure if I need 400w, but 350w feels like it might be too little?
Or, not, assuming I stick with a good brand?
Consider also that I may, instead of adding 2 sata's and keep the 2 ide's ... I might pull the 120 gig ide disk I have now, especially if in the future I may buy some cheap used box and make it a linux fw/file server (just for the fuck of it ..)

Case - I may wind up with a black and silver case, since I'm going with black opticals ... but I need some silver in it, somewhere.

and since psu and case are going to take the bulk of the shipping costs ... I need to factor that into my budget.

So .. I'm now going to look around other sites for cases/psu's, maybe with cheaper shipping ...

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MikeSty

Awesome, looks like you're set then.

SiN

heheh ...kinda.


just went to anandtech and glanced through their 939 board reviews ...

the Abit came in 2nd place, the 1st place board is the MSI Neo2 Platinum ... which is 119$ before 25$ rebate on newegg right now ... not sure if the 20$ diff is worth it/in budget ... i need to start tossing stuff in a cart to get a better idea of where i'm at i think ..
and do that case/psu search i mentioned

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cyrnel

Argh... cheap-bastard tendencies foiled again!

Looks like you're doing well on parts.

For encoding performance you'll get a respectable improvement with multiple spindles. Rip to one and encode to another. I already use separate drives for tmp/temp and any vm so that ends up being a good place to stash temporary video files. Beyond that, MHz are your friend.

If you encode numerous jobs a day, cost/job is lower with two cheap systems. More cores would be great if they weren't so expensive.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

SiN

allright ... after about 12 hours (!) (did I mention my mom's computer is very slow?)

of browsing around ...

I still wind up at Newegg with $498.54 (with shipping) in my cart - all but keybo, mouse, monitor.

I'm gonna hold on it for a bit, or overnight, not sure yet.

Currently I've got :

Athlon 64 3000+ Venice $146
Abit AV8 - $99.50 (before rebate)
Corsair Value DDR 400 1 gig kit (2x512) - $89.75
Liteon 16P9S dvd-rom - $20
Liteon 1693S dvd-rw - $40
Enermax Noisetaker 370w - $44
Raidmax Astro Black Case (the front is silver ) - $30


Add to that a Microsoft mouse and keyboard that I'm getting for free, and a 21" Trinitron that I can get used for $100 (local, so no delivery), and the gfx and hdd's i already have ...

would be not a bad set up for 600 bucks, eh?


---> Still open to criticisms and/or praise! <---

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Pragma

That's a very nice system for a good price - I wish I had money lying around free to upgrade my system, it's quite painful watching other people upgrade theirs while knowing you can't do the same to yours

Good work picking out the parts - it should work great

__________________
Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

Robaggio

Wish I could make the jump to 64 myself. No $$

MikeSty

I still warn you of the Corsair ValueSelect...

SiN

Mike - I know, i know ... I am not ignoring your opinion, really.
I just, dunno, it seems to work out for a lot of people ... I guess i have a good 'feeling' about it ... if i'm wrong, well then you can say 'i told ya so'.

........

anyways, this whole thing is hurting my brain

I may be changing to a P4 system, it might work better for my needs.
(thx to Lasereth for complicating my decision , yet helping me make sure I get what I need )

If I do, I'm currently considering this mobo:
Abit IS7-V2 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813127175
and a box P4 3.0/800 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116171
.. and if i go this route, I would get a different HSF, but not now!

As it is, I'm hitting the ceiling pricewise and it makes me nervous ..but I could go with this P4 sys if it would really be better for my usage.

2 Q's :

1. do prescotts really suck as much power as they are rumoured to do?
If so, I still think I'd be ok with my PSU, but would i notise it on my electricity bill? assuming puter's on almost 24/7 ..

2. are socket 478's 'dead' ... would i be able to upgrade the proc for a reasonable price if i wanted to in a year or 2? or would I pretty much be 'stuck' with this system?

...

I'm going to sleep on it, and hope that I can get some feedback and actually place an order tomorrow.

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MikeSty

Power doesn't mean too much, it's really the heat that the damn thing gives off.

I don't want to say "i told you so". That's called being an asshole

hrandani

Everytime I've gone Pentium since 1998 I've regretted it. So, 0 for 8.

Just my two cents. I also hate MSI. (and netgear) But these are more irrational than rational summations of their business practices mixed in with the actual performance of the hardware so your mileage may vary.

connyosis

Prescotts wants a lot of power, and thus run really hot, no doubt about that. I've heard people saying their prescotts run between 55 to 60°C when idling (As compared to my AMD64 that wont go over 50 ever at full load)

IMHO, the only real reason to get an Intel CPU is if you are going to encode a lot of video. Intel CPUs are a bit faster there. Otherwise it's AMD all the way.

__________________
If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

SiN

what do you consider 'a lot'?
and , 'a bit' ... would that be a barely notiseable difference, or would I definitely 'feel' it?

I's summarise/quote/elaborate on my usage again ...

Video re-encoding ... I could do from 1-20 DVD's a week, just depends on what I have around that needs it.
(Also will be doing audio encoding/compression on a fairly regular basis, but that's not as much of an issue, timewise/cpu load-wise).
Sometimes image processing/doing things with photoshop.

Anyways, I hope i didn't forget anything.

Still looking for opinions!

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connyosis

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTI0LDM=
Check out that page for some benchmarks between different Athlons and Pentiums. After reading that, I can't really see much reason to buy a Pentium4.
(The test is a little old, from 2003 but still valid IMHO)

__________________
If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

cyrnel

SiN, if you're using XviD you'll tend to get better throughput with AMD at the same price point. I'm happy with them here. DivX has often been the reverse though results have varied with versions. The differences aren't earth-shattering though, so I'd look at the rest of the system and headroom which the 939 board has in spades. You'll be happy with it, with less power heat & noise. If you really want an encoding monster bump the L2 cache, add a core, and go for MHz. It just doesn't seem necessary when considering cost/hour encoding. Video encoding is not a fast process regardless of the system.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Lasereth

I'd just go for the Athlon 64 system. It's more upgradeable. Like Cyrnel said, even if you do go for a high MHz P4, decoding/encoding is still gonna take a while.

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

SiN

Screw it.

I've been running myself in circles (understatement a bit)... and yeah, i think you're both right.

the A64 system is probably in my best interests, now and in the future.

/me needs to step away from the computer and breathe a bit.

I will be back later.

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SiN

I DID IT!!

Order submitted!

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connyosis

Excellent. I'm very confident you'll be happy with those parts.

__________________
If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Pragma

Be sure to take pictures of putting it all together - it should be fun to see what it looks like all come together.

__________________
Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

SiN

mhm, I plan to do exactly that, steal my mom's crap digicam and document the process

.............

And, because I kinda forgot to, in all the excitement, to everybody who posted here,

Thank you!!!

Even though I pretty much wound up with what I wanted, the feedback, advise and support helped a lot, for me to make sure I knew what I was doing and wasn't being stupid.

It wouldn't have been as easy, or as fun, without y'all.

Extra thanks to Lasereth for being helpful and patient with me.

/me bounces around excitedly, awaiting her stuff

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MikeSty

no problem. That'll be $5 plz.

chriscsugaree

Hey SiN. Did a quick drop in to see how you are doing. A new computer. Sweet. I have been wanting to put a new computer together myself so maybe your pics will help. I hope your new computer works like a dream. And welcome back to the states.

SiN

chris!!! hi!!

yes, i'll try to make the pics 'educational'

still waiting for newegg to ship, they had probs with address verification. ...
I want to build on saturday, i hope it all gets here in time :/

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chriscsugaree

p.m. sent SiN. ...more here than there... Hmmm, I was wondering why you were no longer right behind me. See you soon.

Everyone else here, do not forget Saturday is SiN's birthday. She has not stated her age and I am too much of a gentleman to ask but I hope you give her a surprise. Maybe if you all jumped out of a cake and yelled happy birthday.