Give me MP3 Player advice
 

(I know this has been done before some what but I'm just looking for opinions)

Ok guys I need advice.
I'm getting an mp3 playe for xmas and I've lowered my choices down to an IPOD or a Rio Karma.
I'd really like .ogg support which the Karma has, but it's not hugely improtant.
Both have 20gig (at least) and seem to have good interfaces.

Does anyone know how easiley the Karma synchs with XP? or Linux?
The IPOD I know doesn't work with Linux right now,but XP support is fine.

So let me know what you think.

I don't own an MP3 player, but I would definitely take care to buy one that didn't interfere with the way I wanted to manipulate my music - in other words, one without integrated Digital Rights Management. I believe I've read that the IPods are DRM'd up the hoopla, so that makes the choice easy especially if the Rio isn't.

the IPod does work in linux, you just need to work with it. As far as the RIO Karma, if I remember it can be accessed through the Network interface, so it may be a little easier to setup.

however, since you mentioned ogg support, you might want ot go karma route, because you might end up just wishing you had that supporot and not have it with the ipod and I wouldnt hold my breath that they will update the firmware to support it.

When I finally decided to buy an mp3 player, size was the most important factor. If I wanted to lug around a mini hard drive, I would have got an iPod, but it was too damn big. I was then going to get a Karma because of the size, until I saw a Rio Carbon in person. After playing around with it for a little while, I bought it on the spot. It literally fits not only in my pocket, but like way down at the bottom of my pocket, I can't feel it there!

It's 5GB, but wtf do I need 20GB for? I'm not going to listen to 10,000 songs every time I leave the house. The software (Rio Music Manager) is a piece of cake to use in XP; the Carbon shows up like a hard drive and you just drag songs or playlists onto it. It sounds fine: loud and clear. The only thing I miss from it is an FM tuner. Plus it was $85 cheaper than the white Apple hard drive, err mp3 player. iPod ShmyPod; I think those things are retarded. ...My 2 cents.

I've also been looking for one of those. I've been reading up on the Creative Zen Touch 20GB and it looks like a better alternative to me then IPod.

In my mind, the ipod is the only real choice. I mean cmon, you gotta love the scroll wheel. :p

I think the ipod really is the defining mp3 player, but apple products are always more expensive than the competitions. :/

It all depends how much you want to spend or if u are the one spending the money. A Rolls Royce (iPod) or a Cadillac (Karma). I have had a Karma for a year now and absolutely love it. Would I have liked an iPod...sure, of course...but it was almost double the price for the same capacity.

Both are good products and your not going to go wrong with either choice. Enjoy.

I have Windows ME....will that screw up buying an MP3 player?

Windows ME will screw anything up!! Me thinks its time to swtich to XP.

For various and sundry complicated reasons having to do with certain software I use that won't run on XP, I use ME. I really wanted to get my wife an mp3 player for Xmas though...am I screwed?

pretty sure iTunes works on ME...all you need for an iPod is iTunes to work so i dont see why that would mess anything up

Unfortunatly iTunes won't run on ME, only 2k or XP. What software do you need to use that hasn't been updated to XP yet? I can't imagine any company is that far behind unles they are out of business.

Not business software. Personal.

Either way, does Roxio or MusicMatch run on ME?

Whats so great about the Ipod? The battery life is short, its more expensive, and it's made by Apple. I think Ipod owners have been brainwashed!

hehe this amuses me. It seems you may have been brainwashed by an Apple competitor ;)

"Must not buy Apple. Must not buy Apple." :D

Perhaps I have, or perhaps I've just used an Apple for too long that I can no longer stand them :)

The iPod ad campaigns amuse me, actually - they put it right there on the billboard: "By using this product, you will become one of the faceless followers, any unique identity you have will be subsumed and your only identifying feature will be a pair of white headphones." I think a great competitor ad would have a crowd of shadow-people, with a real unique person in the foreground, saying "stand out from the crowd" or something similar.

Anyway, off topic sort of. Just amusing myself.

Bingle

I had an ipod (10GB) for about a year. I borrowed it from my sister, and just recently she asked for it back. I have to say, the battery life is a bit short. Other than that, its excellent. Its a great size and the software is excellent. Now that I have to buy my own, I probably wont go with apple, only because of the battery life, and the fact that the battery is not user replacable. we all know that rechargable batteries die eventually.

ill keep reading this thread for more suggestions!

The battery life on the new (4G) iPods is a whole lot better. And there are several outside vendors that now carry replacment batteries for iPods that you can install yourself or just send in your iPod and they'll do it for you.

And the DRM is not that tight. Officially it is not possible to transfer music from your iPod to your hard drive, but there are a lot of freeware programs out there that will do it anyway.

buy the rio. what's the point of having an mp3player if you can only import copyrighted content, or if you have to go through a bunch of confusing (and dangerous) firmware cracking? ipods are nice, but my room mate has a rio, and it works perfecly fine, and yes, it works under linux, but i'm not sure if the rio karma does. hope this helps

the ipod had no trouble with copyrighted/non-copyrighted files, and also works flawlessly with linux. not saying you were questioning that particularly, but just an FYI

does anyone know if these are any good?
Creative Labs - NOMAD Jukebox Zen Xtra 30.0GB* Digital Audio Player
or the iriver 20 gb mp3 player
i am looking at them on the best buy web page, and they are a lot cheaper. 30 gb is only $230
thanks to anyone that knows

Just wondering if anyone is interested in the Dell Pocket DJ. It looks pretty good, and it does its job. It has no fancy stuff attached to it, and it also has a really attractive price. Plus you dont have to worry about quality when it's from dell. It also has FireWire support.

http://img.dell.com/images/us/segmen...e_category.jpg

Product type-- Digital player
PC interface(s) supported-- USB
Flash memory installed-- 5 GB Integrated
Digital storage-- Built-in 5 GB Hard disk drive
Digital formats supported-- MP3, WAV, WMA
Weight-- 4.4 oz
Dimensions (W x D x H)-- 2.1 x .5 x 3.5
Mfr estimated battery life-- 10 hour(s)
Software type-- MusicMatch, Drivers & Utilities
Service & support type-- 1 year warranty
Built-in display-- LCD
Diagonal size-- 1.62 in
CD system-- None
Cassette system type-- None
Tuner type-- None
MD system type-- None
Battery-- 1 x Rechargeable Player battery

I'm a hardcore PC user - and I bought an 2g ipod a while back and I was really happy with it.

I've now upgraded to the 4th generation click wheel model, and it's definately the best choice I've made in terms of electronics. People who complain about the ipod simply haven't tried one. They are simply the best. Their user interface is superb, and the screen is large and easy to read.

Every player that is currently competing with the ipod is basically a copy of it. If you look at the Dell DJ it's got the same shape and form factor, but no company has yet to be able to succeed in what apple has: design. Simply put, the ipod has the best design. There's no design that even comes close to it. It's incredibly intuitive...I know I'm starting to sound like a member of the Apple army, but I still use a PC and I don't plan on ever buying a mac becuase they're so goddam expensive - but in all seriousness, get an ipod. The battery life is up to 12 hours now, which is fine for my use, and the accessories are bar none - there is no other mp3 player that has the same amount of accessories and 3rd party addons as the ipod does.

It's true that the Ipod has a powerful design. I won't disagree with that. But if you are talking about an intuitive ergonomic design then the Dell Dj could be better than the Ipod. I'm not denying the fact that Dell has copied off the ipod ... almost every other mp3 manufacturer has. But the point is that Dell has improved on it, and it treats the jukebox in the same manner that it treats all its other products. If you are looking for an mp3 player that gives you the best music experience, best battery life and best value for money then the Dell DJ is for you. But if you are one of the people who fall for the masses' opinion of excelled design and the 'bling' factor then the ipod is for you. Ultimately it's the music experience, not the player.

I have a Dell DJ... the old one, not the new smaller one. With the combination of the DJ with a program Called Dudebox its a sweet little set up. Just an FYI the creative touch zen is the same thing, i really mean the same thing as the old dell dj.

My 4G iPod is one of my favorite computer accessories that I have. I've got just about every single CD that I own stored on there. The battery life is decent, but not exactly stellar. It's certainly much better than the 2nd gen iPod it replaced. I would certainly recommend an iPod to anyone else in the market for an MP3 player. It doesn't get any easier to use than the iPod.

I have a 30GB ipod. I have about 30-40GB in mp3s, so.. it fits me nicely.

It's awesome because you can also use it as an external HD as well, very handy for backups :D (not sure if that was mentioned already), so it has 2 uses and is worth the price.

And yes, it works in linux.

I've owned two iPods now. I just bought the 40GB photo model. The color screen is really sharp but was a splurge. Not really sure if it was worth the extra $100 and my friends are probally sick of seeing 100+ pics of my daughter. The first iPod didn't die or break, simply my wife wanted it so I bought a new one. Daughter will get a mini for Xmas.

As for do you really need 40GB of music in your pocket? No. Why did I drop so much then for a 40GB, well I'm lazy. I owned a creative labs flashed based player before and would find myself listening to the same 10 songs for a week becuase I was too busy/lazy to reload it every night. 5 gig would be enough for most I'm sure but this way I have everything I own on it and can listen to whatever my mood strikes at the moment. (the auto-synch really helps me be lazy also)

I dont have an "MP3" player so to speak, But i do love my Minidisk player. 45 hours of music on one 1Gb Hi-MD. Reads and writes to standard MD's. Off a single AA battery i get right around 45 hours of play back. Play back in ATRAC3 and ATRAC3+ audio and supports MP3, WMA and WAV.

Havent tested it completly but it clames to record MP3's and CD's up to 100x.

I'm happy with it and dont really want to give it up.

Hey I'm a new guy to the ipods. I think that unless there is a obvious problem with the mp3 player, then they will love it. Why? Because music is in our blood (really in our head and ears) .

Anyway back from my theory that you could teach a person to speak by using a xyalphone... I got the ipod mini. After seeing all the adds on TV and knowing that it would be larger then it was in the add. It was SMALLER. I was like... WTF now THEY ARE UNDERESTIMATING their PRODUCTs. *Cool*

Since I got iTunes about a day before, I put on 960 megs on in about 5 minutes due to USB2. I was like Woah.. *Cooler*

Then I listened to it. I felt it. I used it. Bloody brilliant. It works like a charm. Not only does it play songs but has games, especially 'Guess the Song' game.

Then it put together playlists on my most/least played. Fantastic. THEN I found out you can have notes on it. Now I have all my hypnosis scripts on it. Excellant

And this is 2 days after getting it. Ive said so many 'fabulous' s that my family think I'm gay... *Joke* ... Anyway Ich liebe es! (I'm loving it , got it off a Maccas bottle)

I want to get an mp3 player which incorporates usb flash memory capability. I've been looking around and found the best deal (1.0 G flash memory, USB 2.0) for $99 (canadian):

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...6&Sku=L61-3522

which can be clipped into an MP3 player/holder (which costs and additional $61 canadian):

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...?EdpNo=1191417

both items are by Lexar.

Does anybody have any comment on this versus the iPod/Rio device route? pros and cons?

I just replaced an iPod Shuffle 512MB that I had for a week with an iPod Mini 4GB. I just could't handle the Shuffle's lack of a display and small size. I love the iPod Mini, awesome product. I have much more than 4GB of MP3's but I didn't want to go over $200 for a player. 4GB is fine.

I got my wife a Creative Zen 5gb (yes, I know, not 20gb or larger). I choose that over iPod anything because of not being able to change the batter. Godxzilla is spot on with the fact that rechargable batteries DO die, period. I choose the Zen because of its interface, in that its like the iPod, but without the circular touch pad. Im happy with the decision so far.

I bought a Creative Zen Xtra 30Gb. I am in love with it.

Agreed. Zen Xtra is awesome. I got mine for 170 after rebates.

Rio Karma has bad HDD issues.

Well, ogg files are quite good, I have to say that. I ran into a demo online (see below) and found it better than mp3, but lacking in dynamics when compared to wav. Still...a viable alternative. Next closest was, a-ha! Apple's AAC encoding. I'm not sure of the compression scheme or how much space it is expected to save, but it was really hard to hear the difference between AAC and Ogg. My point? The iPod will have access to using AAC, or whatever the most recent version is named. The iPod also will allow WAV and AIFF files (AIFF is a filetype very close to wav files with no compression). So if you want the sound quality for some of your files, but not all files, you can mix and match with the iPod.

The site is here http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html.

I have a Rio Volt MP3/WMA cdplayer. I thing its a lot better than a harddrive based player. Sure it only can hold 800megs at a time, but really....when do you really NEED 50Gigs of music. I can carey about 15 albums per CD. Never ones has this not been enough music.

Just read tonight that a product called Anapod Explorer will allow Ogg Vorbis on the iPod through its AudioMorph section. Seems to be tons of other features as well. Have not read the entire article, but check out the feature list at http://www.redchairsoftware.com/anapod/featlist.php. Found this info on a link from ipodlounge.com.

Unfortunately, though, all this means is that it will automatically transcode OGG into MP3 (or maybe AAC). You could do this yourself, but transcoding is a really bad option for music. MP3s lose certain parts of a file, and OGGs lose different parts, so when you transcode you'll end up losing a lot of information and it won't sound very good.

Looks like a good feature if you keep your music in FLAC or something, though - no need to keep a separate set of files for your portable player.

Or you could just get a Karma, which supports both Ogg and FLAC on the player ;-)

Bingle

Ouch! Didn't know that. Thanks for the update. I'll stick with my own rips to wav or aiff...or mp3.

Thanks!

I have a 40 GB Zen Xtra, last night I was telling my friend it was the best money I've ever spent. I've never experienced an ipod, or any other player, so I don't know how it compares. I do know it cost about $100 less than an ipod with the same memory.

One thing is that the software was a bit murky for me at first, but now I am used to it, it is second nature. From reading the reviews on Amazon.com, I think this is a common complaint. But the hardware is so far, so good. I've never even had the battery run out on me before I get it recharged, and I've fallen asleep with it on and woken up in the morning with it still playing.

I admit, I am a bit envious of all the accessories the ipod has, but I think I still bought a good product.

So far I've had no trouble with any type of file, but I've only tried MP3 or WAV files, and they go on there fine. Of 5000+ songs so far (and 10GB left to fill) I've had a tiny handfull of songs that would not transfer, but I'd use the software to manually transfer the the format from, say, MP3 to WAV, and it would go on fine.

Ummm.... I think it's safe to assume that the highest quality regular consumer line of mp3 players comes from iRiver. They sound excellent, have nice features, a good interface, and on the hard drive players, a 1.5 or 2 inch color screen that you can view .jpegs on.

i just bought a Rio Forge 256mb and am EXTREMELY HAPPY! it's very easy to add/delete songs and is easy to understand the menus on the actual player. one of the cool things about this is that you can add memory to this player by inserting a memory card. you can add up to 1gb of memory. it runs on one triple A. i've had no problems whatsoever with it. the radio on it comes in great for me. highly recommended. $150 not including a $50 mail-in-rebate. go get one!

Yeah, I used to feel that way too, until I found out the way that their shuffle function works... Apparently if you play the same playlist twice shuffled, it will play the exact same songs in the same order. That's just unacceptable!

Also, apparently there's some problem with the way directories work - you can only shuffle things on the same directory level, or something like that.

Still, I think the iRiver players would be my second choice after the Karma. The color screens and the fact you can record are pretty cool. And it supports formats like Ogg and FLAC, which is a must for me. The combination of AllOfMp3 and an Ogg-capable player is much better than iTunes and an iPod.

Bingle

Anybody who has used an iPod will know why you can't even compare it to other players on the market.

#1.) Why so much storage space? Sure, you can plop songs on as you need them for your MP3 player, but with an iPod you don't need to swap files in advance. When you have the convenience of all your music at hand all the time you wonder why anybody would waste time at home swapping and managing music files to keep on the player.
#2.) When got my iPod the first thing I did was to dump every CD I had onto it. With firewire (instead of USB) each complete CD was transferred in only a couple of minutes. I ran out of CDs in one sitting! I started borrowing my brother's and friend's CDs just to store for another day!
#3.) The software found the label data online and entered the Song Names, Album and Artist for me. I didn't have to even type. My friend had Japanese and Mandarin pop albums and his iPod even found track info for them! On the iPod screen (yes it does have a screen) the info was in Japanese and Mandarin!
#4.) Since all the music is with me all the time I just leave the house with my iPod. When I think of an old song I haven't heard in years I just play it right then and there! I don't have to go home and decide which ones to transfer.
#5.) I taped hours worth of lecture notes and transferred them to my iPod - and could listen to them wherever and whenever I wanted.
#6.) The charge on mine lasts a heck of a long time!
#7.) I can use my iPod to store data files as well - and I have 40 gigs of storage space for it all.

So you can't really compare other MP3 players to an iPod. They're totally different. Just comparing the features and numbers on paper is no substitute for using one. Some MP3 players have as much or more storage - Others may have more functions on the player - some are really tiny and certainly much cheaper. But the iPod has just the right combination of features that put it in a class by itself.
Most people who hate iPods have never used one. All the little conveniences together make a huge difference. Before I got one I was put off by the size - but it's not a bad tradeoff for all the convenience.

They've got to be doing something right if the iPod is still so popular despite its price and the "Apple stigma." It's not all about the ad campaign either.

And let me add a few facts.
From Wired News: "About 80 percent of Microsoft employees who have a portable music player have an iPod"
According to Bloomberg - Sales of iPods accounted for 40% of the MP3 player sales in Japan in 2004 - but as the mini-iPod took off they're expected to reach as much as 70% of the Japanese market in 2005. (In Japan, no less, home of Sony and all the coolest electronics on the planet.)

Just try one. Unless you're biased to hate iPods from the start you'll find that nothing even compares to it.

Well, I don't hate iPods, I just don't think they're the best player for your money. I think they're wildly succesful because of marketing and press, not because of features.

Everything you mentioned is a feature of *every* HDD DAP out there worth its salt. Some things other players even do better - Battery life, for example, was one of the iPod's weak points until recently, when it's gotten closer to other players.

Really the only thing I think you can point to that might distinguish the iPod from other players is the interface. Apple is very good at designing interfaces. But of course, that's mostly a matter of opinion; different people will find different players more or less enjoyable.

However, interface alone doesn't make up for the lack of important features (important to me, anyway) such as Ogg support and *gapless playback*. All you have to do is try to listen to The Wall or Abbey Road on an iPod, and you'll see what a huge deal that feature is. It's absolutely essential to have if you enjoy listening to full albums, and that means no iPod for me.

Bingle

Edit: Also, all the numbers you gave simply point to the fact that the iPod is the most *popular* player, which no one is disputing. But "most popular" is almost never the same as "best quality", especially when you're talking tech devices.

I think the interface is a strong part of the appeal - for me and for many others. It's not a trivial point. It wouldn't be the same if the player had 20 buttons for 30 functions clustered all over it (exaggerating of course). It isn't because I'm not technically adept - quite the contrary. I just appreciate good, practical, efficient design.

My point in bringing up its popularity certainly doesn't prove that it's the best, but the figures are significant enough (IMO) to suggest that it's not all about advertising alone. I wouldn't say that the 80% of Microsoft employees (who own iPods) are simply reacting blindly to an Apple advertising campaign. If that were true then 80% of Microsoft employees would have Mac G5s at home as well. The point is that it's not all just hype - that's all.

I confess haven't been keeping up with other players but I wasn't aware of another 40gig, firewire, "self labelling" (multilingual) MP3 player. If that's the case then I'm still paying for the interface - which is worth the difference - but this would be a matter of personal opinion.

Good point about the "gap," though - which does bother me.

That, as well as being forced to use iTunes (I'm waiting for good technology to come to a 20GB that allows native Windows Explorer use AND kickass battery life) are the main reasons why I'm not getting an iPod, but that brings me to why I'm replying to you, Bingle:

What MP3 players DO allow gapless playback? I listen to almost all live concert CD's exclusively and I really don't want to deal with even a second of gap.

I was thinking about the IAudio M3L, but there's issues with the file management and playback that killed that for me.

Am I asking for much in a unit that costs $250~300? I want good battery life, small, 20GB, native Windows Explorer or MP10 functionality and a decent UI. I guess I'll just have to wait longer. :(

I really can't see why you would prefer an Explorer interface over the iTunes interface. With iTunes, you have all of the metadata right in front of you, you can use the browse functionality to look through your library by genre, artist, or album (or any combination of the three). Don't even get me started on smart playlists.

What benefits does Explorer give you over that? Maybe I'm missing something.

The only one on the market I'm aware of is the Rio Karma. It's a 40GB player, smaller than the iPod, with excellent battery life. It also supports Ogg, FLAC, and WMA. The main downside is that is uses a database for song storage, meaning you have to have your MP3s tagged properly, and you can't use Explorer for file transfers. It's also difficult to use it as a mass-storage device. On the plus side, the database storage means it can play your music in exciting ways, like rock music from the 80s, or all albums by the Peanut Butter Conspiracy.

It's a great player, it's the one I own, but if easy file transfer and mass-storage capabilities are important it's not the best on the market for that.

Bingle

Firewire is rare, it's true, but USB2.0 is just as fast, and more prevalent on PCs. The self-labeling feature you keep mentioning puzzles me... Every CD ripping program I've used since 1998 or so has had CDDB or FreeDB support, meaning they automatically download the track information and tag your files correctly. Is there something else the iPod does too? My Karma also supports multilingual files, but I don't know how common that is.

Bingle

I checked out a number of players before I got my 60gb iphoto and I think I made the best choice for me. I have found a number of ways of getting around using itunes including sharepod, copypod, etc. I also use .wav to keep the sound quality of my better cd's (definitely not all of them). I am still at a loss as to why everyone thinks one mp3 player is superior to all others. I mean my ipod works for me my wifes 256mb Sandisk works for her. Does there have to be a best?

Well, it's not so much that there has to be a "best" player - Most of us just like to argue about matters of taste and personal preference - this is, after all, a forum. But I agree.