Hal Needs Major Help with his System
 

Ok.. I'm gonna make this short and sweet because my browser has crashed twice while trying to type this. It's obvious that my computer hates me.

Specs:
OS: XP sp1
CPU: P4 2.8GHz
RAM: 1gb CORSAIR 433 DDR on Dual Channel
MoBo: Gigahertz 875P
VIDEO: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128

My computer crashes on any 3d rendered game I play; new or old. Doom 3, The Sims 2, Dungeon Siege, Neverwinter Nights, etc. It either crashes on startup, or at random points during the game. It really sucks. I don't believe I have actually hit the 'Quit' button in Sims 2 yet without the game deciding for me when to stop the session.

I have tried updating my drivers for my video card, but when I run ATI's driver updating wizard, it does not detect the correct hardware in my system. WTF? I tried updating the drivers manually, and it works even worse now.

I just have no idea what to do... save for reinstalling everything.

...now Firefox is crashing every time I load it, but I think that's a different issue.

As I said in irc. Take one stick of memory out, run it and see what happens. If it crashes or not swap them and run again. Like you said. It crashed before you changed your video card so I'd say that rules that out...maybe.

Could be a faulty power supply unit failing to deliver proper 3v voltage.

Maybe this is overly simplistic but have you tried a system restore? I know it has cured some serious ills with my system. Just a thought

Could be the videocard, or overheating issues.

Halx, when it dies does it go into a blue screen? How does it go down? Power's off / Locks-up / Speaker goes for a high pitched whinge / ???

If it goes into a blue screen, then it should* indicate the nature of the system failure (hardware/software).

Edit:
BTW - Why have you not upgraded to XPSP2 ?
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...29#post1432829

My random suggestion... reinstall direct x, if that fails reinstall windows.

1st guess: Overheating - get a can of compressed air, turn off the machine, take it outside and blow the dust out of it. Make sure any fans (video card, CPU, power supply) are spinning freely.

2nd: Ram, try alternating/replacing.

3rd: Power supply - often overlooked but a frequent culprit in an unstable system.

Applications just plain crash. The OS remains stable.

I'll try some of these tonight.

Well, because only applications crash (particularly games), it sounds like a video card issue. It could be, as said, an overheating problem, but it also could be physical damage to the card. Do you have an older card you can try? (Or a PC you can pull one out of to test)

Given that the automatic install of the drivers didn't detect the correct hardware, I would guess it's either a physical defect with your current card OR a problem with Windows. If you don't have a card to try, try updating Windows, running virus scans, etc.

Good luck.

How did you reinstall the drivers? You need to COMPLETELY remove the old drivers. Uninstall the old ones and then install the new ones.

The fact that it doesn't recognize your card would indicate that you are having 'old' driver issues, the video board isn't seated properly, or your video card is going bad.

You could have a power problem or a heat problem also. Does it crash with the side off an a fan blowing on it? Do you have 16 hard drives and 4 DVD-roms running off the PS?

Remove your old ATO drivers:
http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak1222.aspx

Well I opened up the case and found that the fan on the PS is not even spinning. I added another case fan from a defunct system and I have the case cover off. Will see how this works. I have 5 HDs and 2 disc drives in there, as well as a few PCI boards. I'm prepared to just go and get a nice 600 watt power supply.

Memory will usually cause problems at post time not during a game.

Although the PS is suspect, if the system is stable but the apps are crashing I would suspect file/library corruption which could be caused by bad RAM or a dying HD or I guess even a funky PS messing with the whole system and causing file corruption(?). If the problem doesn't go away with a new PS you might want to try a system restore or repair disk. And with all those HDs, you have the system backed up somewhere, right?

Most good computer shops can test your RAM and scandisk can check for HD issues.

Sounds like power issues. You might try unplugging everything you can and seeing if you crash, just to be sure.


On the heat front ...

Heat is the mind killer. It is the little death ...

My house is (usually) not air conditioned. My wifes AMD 2000, with case off and fan blowing on it, overheats quite a bit in the summer. My AMD 2000 used to do the same.

I switched to an AMD64 3000, which runs coller. I also turned on it's cool & quiet feature, which helps even more. I have no problems with my case on. I guess sometimes the chip/technology does make a diffrence.

with an additional case fan and the case cover off, i was able to go for a signifigantly longer amount of time. This sorta sucks though, 'cause cooling a case is real hard.

This case fan could really help.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...999-113&depa=0
If you buy two, one intake in the front, one exhaust in the back, your case will be ultra-cool. I just hope you aren't too worried about the noise. But this fan sucks and and blows out air like none other.

Do you have an aluminium case? They're pretty cheap by now, so it's a good investment if you have the time and money.

You could buy a pretty cool (pun intended) Lian-Li case and PSU for less than $200 I believe.


Mr Mephisto

this sounds like the perfect excuse to build a watercooled setup...and then post pics

I just checked out those Lian-Li cases.. holy crap.. those are nice... I'm looking at this one with 12 HD bays.. space 5 drives among all that and it's gotta be smooth.

Yeah LianLi cases are definitly a wise choise if you have money to spend. They are worth every single penny.

If you want supreme slickness and effect, check out thier Silent Case.

Its got sound absorbing laced troughout the whole thing, this includes washers, any metal to metal peice, even the bay doors have sound reducing material.

And after all of that, it looks damn sexy.

Chenming also makes really good cases. There are slots for intake and exhaust fans. Many Antec and Chieftek cases are really just re-labled Chenming cases, so why not get them from the OEM.

Chenmings homepage
Case I'm talking about

Alienware used these cases for a while until they decided to start changing the front covers.

Yeah, Lian-Li cases are the best. I have one and wouldn't trade it for anything. If you don't mind paying $260 for a case without a power supply get this bitch: clicky Not sure if you'll like the way the motherboard is mounted: Upside-down, but there's a ton of space inside this case. The only thing that I don't like is that it doesn't have a slide out mobo tray like most of their other cases. Plus you'll need some long ass cables to reach your mobo.

What the hell kind of case do you have right now anyway?

http://images10.newegg.com/productim...112-074-06.JPG

http://images10.newegg.com/productim...112-074-04.JPG

http://images10.newegg.com/productim...112-074-05.JPG

http://images10.newegg.com/productim...112-074-03.JPG

Depends on how/where the memory has issues - I've had memory give me issues from refusing to POST to crashing every time I tried to open notepad, to even stranger things. However, it sounds like Halx's issue is primarily a cooling issue - especially since it's games that are causing it to crash.

I ended up ordering this case:

http://images10.newegg.com/productim...112-025-09.JPG
http://images10.newegg.com/productim...112-025-11.JPG
http://images10.newegg.com/productim...112-025-12.JPG

It's cheap, compact and can still fit all of my shit in it. I got a few rounded cables, two of those bad ass fans, and a nice enermax power supply. I think my cooling issues are over.

My current case is an ol' Antec tower.. looks something like this:
http://www.antec.com/images/400/SX1000II_front.jpg
but it's a little more plain.. and it's black.
http://www.antec.com/images/400/SX1000II_inside.jpg
You can imagine every on of those HD bays with a drive in it. They're all so close to eachother too..

Good choice with the case. I have nearly the same thing, and I have 5 hard drives, two optical drives, a 9800 PRO, and 2 PCI cards... I have no heat issues at all with my PC. You should be happy with your purchase. I cut a hole for another 80mm fan just under the rear fan in the back. There's just enough room. If you have access to a few tools I would suggest making the hole to help make the airflow even better.

I am a bit surprised you have heat issues with that case. It doesn't seem like that should be a problem. Although, the fans don't blow directly on the HD's like it will in the Lian-Li.

Lastly, the fans that come with that case aren't that good. It wouldn't hurt to replace all of the fans that come with the case.

USUALLY

I did have a machine that would lock up only when playing games and it was the memory.

i say it's a dual issue of heat AND the video card.

You're having the exact problems I had with my ATI, where the system wouldn't recognize it properly. I ended up having to wipe EVERY driver and reference to the card, then totally reinstalling it. ATI cards are real bastards to get set up properly - their drivers are twitchy as hell.

I keep a copy of the Ultimate Boot CD handy. It has loads of diagnostics including my usual first step of troubleshooting: Memtest86.

Download and rip a copy today!

have you tried checking the event viewer in xp to see what xp thinks the problem is? i worked on a comp recently that randomly shut down. xp event viewer told me it was a problem with ACPI. problem solved.

Your motherboard BIOS has temp control/sensors, for CPU and fan rotation. Check those after runing a low level game for an hour. Likely you just cured the issue by replacing the power supply though.

At night, with the cover off, I was skating along pretty darn well. I crashed once.. but I learned my lesson a while ago.. save often!

I'm probably gonna have to reinstall my entire system if I wanna get these drivers updated, though.

Can't wait for my new shit to arrive.

Wow.. it fucking arrived already. I'll get the transplant done tonight and update you all on performance.

Very cool. Be sure to take photos, I love seeing what other people's setups look like (perhaps a giant "Post pics of your computer" thread is in order?) :)

http://www.tba-ownz.org/img/pc/lian-li1.jpg
http://www.tba-ownz.org/img/pc/lian-li2.jpg
http://www.tba-ownz.org/img/pc/lian-li3.jpg

Next up.. cable ties.
The little wire sticking out of the top is the speed control of the fan in the back. This thing is louder than shit when it's going full blast.

Yeah, you definitely need to clean up those wires. I wouldn't even show it to anyone looking like that, but maybe I'm just weird. Also, why don't you stealth the drives to hide the white? It's really simple. All you need is a sharp pair of straight cut tin snips and some velcro strips to stick the front of your drive and the back of the drive bay cover. Just trim the sides evenly with the top and bottom. That's all I did, and it looks 1000x better.

Did this fix your problem?

I have no idea what that means, sixate. Stealth my drives? Your description doesn't help. My cover is never gonna be off, why do it's guts need to be pretty? The only reason I would tie my cables would be to allow more air flow, not so it looks pretty.

I haven't tested it yet with Sims 2 because it simply refuses to run... an issue that appears to be more software related than anything, but Doom 3 runs very smoothly.

I think he means the front of your DVD/CD drives. The beige clashes with the black. Several new cases have stealth doors your drives(CD/DVD) sit behind. The doors pop open when the CD/DVD tray ejects. They are springloaded so they close when the tray returns.

Good luck with your airflow; I think your going to need it. ;)

Ohh the CD drives. They'll be replaced within the next year with newer drives with black faceplates, so it doesn't matter right now. Hardly anyone sees my computer besides me.

hal: Serial ATA HD's....

saves a lot of cabling :)

You really won't even need to replace your CD/DVD drives if you do what I say. It looks best like this anyway. My drives are black, but nobody even knows because you don't see them.

http://www.boomspeed.com/sixate/Stealth1.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/sixate/Stealth2.jpg