TechTV: Save us from the new Screen Savers
 

Did anyone else watch the premiere of TSS in LA? Boy has The Screen Savers really taken a dive over the last year. First they lost Leo, and Patrick quit recently due to him getting married. What a team of fucking morons they have on air now. Let's smash some cheese into a perfecty good $50 heatsink! This new Alex tool is like Christopher Lowell with a computer. He doesn't show anything that would lead me to believe that he knows anything about computers. He gets handed an "old school" CDROM drive and is like "whats this, a DVD burner?" He said he already got an email saying he sucked. I was never too crazy about Kevin as a co host, but he is ok as a contributor. What does eating a raw egg fresh from the shell have to do with tech? Seeing him gag it back up was almost painful to watch. Sarah had a look on her face like "what the hell is wrong with this kid?" Another thing that really pissed me off is them saying "old school" like fifty fucking times throughout the show. I don't see myself watching this near as much as I used to watch the old show, if I watch it at all. I hope they run reruns of the REAL TSS (Leo, Pat, Morgan, and Megan) really late at night.

i saw it, i didnt like the fact that theyre going the comedy route rather than informative. But that explains the huge audience.

id be lying if i said i liked what ive seen so far, but ill give it a chance.

I cry. :(

This show used to be really something to watch, but ever since they switched to the clueless crew I just can't make myself sit through it.

Even after Leo left and poor Patrick was left by himself with the Wonder Twins (Kevin and Sarah) it wasn't too bad a show especially when they let Robert Heron (Is that right?) out of the box, but I watched it tonight and turned the channel after the first 15 minutes.

I feel like it's an and of an era. I watched the show religiously for a long time. It was funny, and was an excelent source of information. I don't remember Leo ever saying 'old school'. I'm going to give it a few more chances to pick up and start answering questions, instead of turning into a freak show. Martin Sargent does an excelent job at that, and I won't see him replaced by that egg eating moron.
Of course Sarah is breathtaking, so that might help me tune in.

"This new Alex tool is like Christopher Lowell with a computer." HAHAHAH, very nice.

TechTV changed ownership didn't it? Crappy G4TechTV... Yea, they made everything pretty lame now. You're lucky you guys don't get Call For Help anymore, not yet anyways... They've crapped that up too, even with Leo hosting still...

Argh. This is getting incredibly bad. I watched a recent episode of TSS, and Kevin Rose made it plain as fucking day that, in gaming, the processor is MORE important than the video card, and that if you're gonna play D3, you should consider upgrading your processor before video card. WHAT?!

In-motherfucking-credible. I can't believe he would utter such an incredulous statement, reeking of so much wrongness. WHAT A FUCKING DUMBASS! In a game like Doom3, videocard is almost EVERYTHING. This upcoming generation of games is so graphically intensive that your processor should almost become secondary, perhaps even so far as tertiary in importance when compared to the damn video card. I mean, I'd put it like this: 1)Videocard, 2) RAM capabilites/mobo threshold, 3) Processor.

Case in point. Family member of mine gets a free "ass-whipper" Dell from his university (where he works). Obviously, there's a big problem here. "Ass-whipper" and "Dell" have no right to be in the same sentence. This thing is business machine, it belongs in a student lab. It contains the following: 3.2C P4, 1024MB PC2700, Geforce4 MX440. There's the problem. Business machine or not, that video card sucks. He calls me and tells me that when he performed Doom 3's system scan, it picked Low. I said, "no shit sherlock, that card sucked when it came out, what did you think Doom 3 was gonna do to a 64MB video card with not shit going for it?!"

My point: Kevin Rose and the rest of the crew on TSS need to be dropped like a bad habit. Get the guys from Tom's Hardware in there ASAP. Or the guys from Anandtech. Or FUCKING ANYONE WHO KNOWS SHIT ABOUT COMPUTERS AND NOT FUCKING "SCRIPT BUNNIES" WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT MATTERS MOST IN GAMING!!!!

End rant.

I deleted it from my pvr without watching it today. What is so said, techtv used to be our early evening tv. Get home, watch a little call for help with Kate and Leo, then watch screen savers a little later with dinner. It was honest to goodness, fun tv.

What on earth happened, why would you take such a popular, well bonded format, and flip side it. I am one of those people that enjoys watching anything technical. I am that idiot who looks at technology like the sony ibo and thinks, hey cool. Point and case, if theres techno stuff on tv, I watch it. I deleted SS today without a single hesitation because its just lame now.

Not exactly. I would say it's more like 1) ram 2) Proc 3. Video Card

The ram supples data to the processor, then the processor sends data to the video card.
If you have a super fast video card, but a slow processor, the video card will be starved of data, it will be idle much of the time. If you have a super fast processor but low amounts of ram the same situation will occur, the processor will be idle much of the time waiting for data from ram.

I've been watching this every day now since the new season came on. Although he is still a boner, this Alex is getting much better. I think he is still a bit nervous about the whole being on TV thing. He still slips up quite frequently when talking, but then again, so does Kevin, and he's been at it much longer than Alex.

Guess I'm glad I don't get it here on campus then. That really sucks though. It was the show that got me into computers for purposes other than obtaining pornography and free music. If it weren't for them I wouldn't have spent $3000 on building a water cooled, kick arse gaming rig.

I learned so much from Pat, Leo, Megan, Morgan, Kevin, Yoshi, and others who were on in the past. I was really hoping the G4-TechTV merger would involve G4 replacing most of it's programming with TechTV stuff since G4 sux monkey balls. But no, one of the last few things I truly adored in this world has been ruined. I swear, if I ever win the lottery or make some good investments, TechTV will return...

I haven't watched techtv much any more sence g whatever took over.
They don't play anything I like any more and messed up the shows I use to watch.

No, it's definitely videocard first. Forget the data procedure...what matters is performance and tests. Upgrading from a 1.6 GHz P4 to a 3.0 GHz P4 will do you much less good than upgrading from a GeForce 4 MX to a GeForce 6800. Will the system be bottlenecked with such a good videocard and a sub-par processor? Yeah, but it'll perform a hell of a lot better than simply upgrading the processor. As of 3 years ago, the videocard handles nearly all of the calculations in gaming. That's why people with $70 processors and a $500 videocard are playing games at astronomical speeds (me :thumbsup: ).

Having over 512 MB of RAM will increase game performance way more than having a faster processor as well. Adding an extra 256 MB of RAM to 512 will increase the average FPS drastically.

If ya want proof, check out the Doom 3 tests on anandtech.com. Upgrading from a 2.4 C Core P4 to a 3.2 GHz C core = 10% performance boost. Upgrading from a GeForce 4 to a GeForce 6800 = sometimes 200-300% performance boost. I shit you not.

PS: I saw that episode of TSS when they had the "gaming PC knowitall" on there. Seeing Rose and that moron say that your processor is the most important for gaming basically lost any hope I had for the show. I started screaming at the screen. :) I didn't really like the old TSS, but now it's unbearable. Hell, all of G4techTV is unbearable, especially the truckload of feces that G4 brought in.

-Lasereth

The old TechTV was watchable. The Screen Savers was doing fine, Call For Help was finally coming back around, and the rest of the programming was improving.

Then Comcast snatched up TechTV and infused it with their G4 crap. It isn't surprising what happened, just disappointing. G4TechTV could have been a decent network. G4 + TSS, X-Play, and Unscrewed is still G4-filled crap.

I'm not an avid watcher of televison, but when I do watch, it is usually TechTV (I will still call it that no matter what). But I haven't watched recently, so I have a few questions.

What happened to Leo on the ScreenSavers? I know he is gone, and I know he left before Pat did. But why exactly did he leave? Was he fired or did he quit?

Also, what caused Call For Help to go off the air? If Leo did quit, then I guess they got rid of this. I should probably have watched more often. Or did it even go off the air, because Thriolith stated something early that made it seem like it still airs somewhere.

And what happened to Eye Drops? I loved that show.

I guess those are the only questions I have. I do have to say I caught the season premiere of The Screen Savers, and it did seem a little amatuerish. The two hosts would try to be funny (more so of the new guy) and you would be treated with four or five seconds of incoherent laughter and "jokes". Kind of like two giddy girls talking at the same time.

I won't give up on the show though. I will still watch it about the same amount of time I always did, which is about once or twice a week. It will most likely get better. I hated X-Play when it first came out, but they listened to viewer opinons and changed there show around, and now it's really grown on me. I actually couldn't even remember what the name of the show was before X-Play, but I just remembered today that it was Extended Play, right?

Actually, I do have one more question. Wasn't there two hosts for the old Extended Play? Adam and some girl? For some reason I picture a girl with glasses (Not Kat or Cat or whatever) with Adam.

Alright, I am done now.

Morgan Webb makes x play worth it in the end.

200-300%? Come on, from 9800XT to 6800 Ultra is 300% (according to Tom's Hardware.) I'd say Ti4200 to 6800 Ultra is at least a 400%-500% increase! :)

Just for the record I think TSS has went waaay downhill as well.... Shouldn't there be an online petition to get rid of the current foolios on that show?

There have been tons of online petitions, one to get leo back seemed to work, for at least a little bit. Last episode I watche they did two phone calls for the entire show. I miss the old TSS

No one answered on of my many questions:


What happened to Leo?

I will say G4Techtv is the worst thing to happen to Techtv and G4 is probably the worst thing to happen to man-kind. As far as all this ram, proc, video card crap, why are you doubting a man who's taken computer science (aka kevin). Sure he dropped out but that doesn't mean he didn't take the classes. I myself have a degree in that field and with regard to most gamers in the middle-computing power, middle-cost class an upgrade in processor is usually better than in video card. Why you ask, because doom 3 is a processor and video card intensive game. The minimum requirements of 1.5Ghz processor tell you this right on the box. Sure you need a good video card too but even if you spend $500 on the latest greatest card it can't perform without a processor and bus capable of feeding it. If you have near 3ghz processor then upgrade in video card will do wonders but if you have around a 1.5 ghz processor and buy an expensive ass video card your not going to see the performance you paid for and would have gotten better performance for cheaper with a processor upgrade.

Most CS degrees don't teach you about extremely detailed hardware information. I DO know this information because I read very intricate, in-depth reviews and analyses on the Internet from trustworthy sources every single day. It's a fact that the videocard handles most of the computations within games nowadays. If you're faced with upgrading to a midrange videocard or a midrange processor, it's still best to go with the videocard. The days of a processor upgrade being better than a videocard upgrade are over. If you have a crappy videocard and a crappy processor, it's better to upgrade all of it, but if you have to choose, a videocard will benefit you three times over than a new processor.

Doom 3 can barely be called a processor intensive game. If a $50 processor and a $400 videocard will run Doom 3 VERY well, then the videocard is obviously the main factor. Like I said before, there's a small increase in performance within Doom 3 even from a huge processor upgrade. There is a MASSIVE increase in performance from upgrading to a better videocard. The game is RAM (amount, not speed) and videocard intensive...barely processor intensive (even though you need a somewhat decent processor to play it).

I hate to be an ass, but that's not right. You'll see a much larger performance boost with a 1.5 GHz processor and a top of the line videocard than with a better processor and not top of the line videocard. Like I said before, gaming performance with, say, a GeForce 6800 Ultra and a $50 Athlon XP 2000+ will totally outperform a 3 GHz Pentium 4 with a GeForce 4. There's no getting around the tests!

-Lasereth

I got TechTV just before it merged with G4 and i was totally into it, i watched X-Play, and TSS and some Call for Help, it was awesome, then they merged and they put on some weird stuff like cinematech, WTF IS THAT! sence i didnt have TechTV that long before Leo and Pat left i didnt get to enjoy them as much as you guys, but i liked them better then kevin poseER(poser cuz he isnt a computer guy like pat or leo)



and to the guy who said "foolio" right on, thats awesome

Basically Leo's contract wasn't renewed when comcast took over techtv... you can read more from his blog
http://leo.typepad.com/tlr/techtv/index.html

That should answer that question
:)

I hope I'm remembering this right....

I believe Leo is still doing Call for Help for the sister company of G4TechTv in Canada. I believe they're called G4TechTv as well....

I understand he's a got a brand new set and films in....Toronto?!?

I'm going to have go look that up now.....

1) ram
2) vid card
3) processor

and the old school call for help with i think his name was chris was badass..
leo wasn't to good at it..

at least they still have X-Play and unscrewed

Lasareth: I am not going to get into this argument because I don't know shit about gaming. BUT. You read intricate reviews of stuff online. Kevin Rose plays with this stuff everyday. He has the luxury of swapping out parts in the labs and seeing what happens. He may carry himself like a moron on the show, but he probably has more experience with this stuff than all of us combined.

I have to agree. I know kevin knows his stuff and I know my stuff. I'm not sure what CS people you know Lasareth but CS people learn all things computers. Sure they don't exactly have doom 3 performance building class but the classes they do have they can apply what they learned and what they know to things like doom 3 and other gaming situations. I'm still not sure why you think they put 1.5 ghz min requirement if the game isn't cpu intense. Surely if the video card does most of the work a pentium 3 500Mhz should work great as long as the video card is up to the task. Sadly this isn't true and we can't keep our old 500's as cutting edge gaming systems. I'm just gonna say this about ram, processor, and video card. Games are run from ram if you don't have enough the computer will need to load more data to and from the hard drive at a more constant pace. The processor computes all the mathematics of the games things like ammo amount/usage, movement, map changes, virtually every thing that happens in the game that doesn't concern how pretty it looks on screen (and that is alot of stuff). The video card takes care of the pretty, it takes info from the processor on what to display and turns it into cool looking visuals like smoke from the gun, lighting, shadows, basically everything you see.

You can buy that expensive video card to enhance the pretty but it's still going to be slowed down by the processor (a Radeon 9800 Pro or better will perform like shit when it's paired with a 400Mhz or slower processor). All that said if you have a system that plays doom 3 but is near the minimum requirements it's better to upgrade the processor for about a $100 and max out the video cards ability then to upgrade the video card for $200 or more and have it slowed down by the already maxed out processor. I'm not saying that you wouldn't upgrade the video card but it's not cost efficient to upgrade the video card first if you already playing doom 3 on a min requirement or slightly better machine.

That can't be used as an argument. If you saw my room, you'd think NewEgg outsources to me for their orders. I have hundreds of computer parts in my room that I DO swap out and test. I do this shit all the time. I have 5 test computers in my room that I try various tests on. I have tons of friends who have different PC components that I pester to do tests as well. I have access to all of the new PC gaming equipment, and I do test it frequently. That, combined with reading the reviews online, gives me a massive gaming PC knowledge base. Mr. Rose might know more about CS than me (I'm sure of it) but I highly doubt he's as PC gaming savvy. If he's that damn smart about gaming computers, he wouldn't get on national TV and say the Radeon 9600 Pro is the best videocard of all time. He wouldn't call Athlon XP an AMD XP. He wouldn't say that PC2100 RAM is fine with a Barton core Athlon XP. He may know a lot about it, but he sure makes an ass out of himself on TV by making completely false statements. If he starts bringing out the real info, let him, but so far he's proved to be someone *interested* in PC gaming equipment, not a knowledgeable person about it.

-Lasereth

You guys are completely misunderstanding me. I know Doom 3 won't run on a 500 MHz PC. That's a ton of crap. My point is that it will run better on a lower-CPU machine (say, a 1.5 GHz P4) with a really good videocard then a higher-CPU machine (say, a 3.0 GHz P4) and lower-end videocard. Videocard matters more in gaming...it's fact. You guys are bringing up 400-500 MHz processors. That's irrevelant...I didn't mention them, and you guys know as well as I do that Doom 3 isn't gonna run on a 500 MHz PC.

-Lasereth

Are we still talking about TechTV here? lol

Continue with the squabbling.

Man, Its sad to see techtv degenerate like this...of course, I kinda started to hate TSS as soon as it techtv took over zdtv. Back in the day when it was Leo and Kate..now that had a real authentic "underground computing" value to it, with actually intersting questions from computer literate people...yea..that was the good old days (does anyone else even remember when Kate Botello hosted..back when it was ZDTV)

The debate here is over a host of TechTV and information posed on the station. I think it's relevant! :thumbsup:

-Lasereth

Do you mean when "underground computing" meant that they were shooting in what was basically a basement? ;)
If so then yes those were the good old days.

I like watching TSS, but I never really felt like I learned anything from them...they always struck me as a couple of guys completely talking out of their asses.

But occasionally, I'd hear about a new freeware program I might not have discovered on my own, which was pretty helpful.
My favorite part, though, is seeing their guests...computer modders or forum moderators I recognize from my Internet travels.

I haven't seen the LA version yet, but I'm afraid-very afraid.

Lasereth: I understand where your coming from and it's all good but I do wanna clear up something, when you say doom 3 will run better do you mean the graphics will look better or do you mean the game will actually run faster. If your talking about graphics then your right but if your saying the game is run by the video card or run faster by it then your the opposite of right. Regardless of what game or what system you have I will stand by this fact: Graphics cards need to be paired with their matching processor for optimal performance. If your high-end video card isn't paired with a high-end processor the video card's performance suffers, and vice-versa. Not that this will always be an issue but if you really wanna milk your dollars worth on your brand new $500+ video card you better have a brand new or nearly so fast ass processor. That's all I wanna say about video cards, processors and gaming.

As far as kevin recommending someone upgrade their processor instead of video card for doom 3. In his defense he's no idiot or gaming newbie, most likely the person with the question didn't have at least a 2.0 Ghz processor but there video card was enough to play doom 3 with decent frame rates with even maybe medium quality. The person probably wanted to max out the quality and yes a video card would do that but for the money it would cost the person could improve their whole system by upgrading the processor and maybe other things. Sure it won't get them the maxed out quality but doom 3 and all other games and programs would run faster and better instead of everything running the same and doom just looking prettier.

I haven’t watched TSS since Pat left, and I don’t like what happened. The shows on that channel are horrendous. Have anyone seen the show Cheat? The worst show ever. "From our online poll, this week’s favorite cheat is GOD mode!!!" Crappy half hour.

Same with the show where the two guys argue about reviews.
"I think this game rocked.
I'm going to have to disagree with you."

At least X-Play is still running ... right? (I haven’t watched in a while)

So long, TechTV
 

The show really started to go downhill over a year ago, when Megan Morrone and Morgan Webb left.

The last TSS show I watched was was in San Francisco at the studio, two days before the finale taping. Being a Bay Area native, I had gone to see TSS live at the studios at least a dozen times over the past several years.

Pat and Leo held the show up, no doubt about it. They had charisma and talent, and were knowledgable people. Kevin knows what he's talking about, but overdoes it quite often....

IMO, the first thing they did that made it go severely downhill was the switch of sets. The 'new' set that they moved out of in SF sucked compared to the basement set they had back in the good old days. That basement theme had so much more appeal.

I think that comcrap are a bunch of hogs. They really made a mistake by buying out TechTV. Even though TechTV wasn't very profitable before it was bought up, comcast has lost a sea of viewers who got fed up with the whole deal.

I'm glad that Leo is doing something for the network. Other than his guest appearances on bigger TV networks and his weekend radio show, I think he's destined to be something larger. Just look at him. He's always struck me as the celebrity type. You know when he got to be that way when, despite my frequent visits to the show and lengthy conversations with him, didn't usually recognize me the next time I went. Kevin, however, along with patrick and yoshi, did a little bit better.

As for the people aspect of it all, I take satisfaction in knowing that some of the best names from former TechTV aren't going to make the move to a dirty and polluted LA.

~Andrew

First of all you guys are making the wrong types of comparisons when deciding which component is most important. I think that you have to start with the minimum requirements of the game and do a bench mark test. Then, use the slowest recommended processor with the highest available video card. Record benchmarks. Then do the opposite. Use the fastest processor available with the slowest recommended video card. Record benchmarks.

Compare the results of the three tests and voila, you have your answer. Since you say you have access to all different kinds of hardware maybe this is something you can do? This is the only real way to get a definitive answer, otherwise, we can throw examples back and forth but never know for certain.

Back to the original topic...I do admit they did suck the first day, but I think that they have gotten better. Sure maybe their advice is still inaccurate at times but I never really watched it to learn how to use a computer. If you think about it they constantly keep answering the same questions, needless to say if you pay attention eventually you will learn most of the answers. The reason I like to watch is because they do cover a lot ot tech news and new software. Also, Kevin and Yoshi's mods are also very interesting. If I need serious computing answers I turn to the net for answers (places such as this), so basically I watch for the entertainment value.

I think Leo was the perfect host, he was willing to be funny, but not at the expense of giving misinformation. Pat was the ultimate straight man, always giving just the facts. Together they were very good, whenever Leo started to get out of control Pat would always reign him in. By the way the funniest TSS moment had to be when Leo said Dildo by mistake and everybody on the set cracked up laughing.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that if these two new guys can manage to give me some tech news and good reviews I'll be a happy viewer. Speaking of which my biggest critique of the show so far occured today in the mp3 player roundup. The only real competitors to the ipod are the Rio Karma and the iRiver units but they didn't even mention them. I mean the basically said that the Dell and Creative players were basically the same, so why include both? And if their excuse for not including the Rio and the iRiver is that they didn't have any on hand they should have still discussed those units anyway. The only player that even came close to matching the ipod was the Sony net thingy, but it is immediately ruled out because it doesn't even play mp3 files.

I think the commedy is getting better, and Kevin and Alex are working better as a team but they just need more time to gel and get to know each other. Give them a chance guys they'll get better (hopefully).

"By the way the funniest TSS moment had to be when Leo said Dildo by mistake and everybody on the set cracked up laughing."

There was an experience I had when I was watching the show live... This was back before they had a studio audience (basement set). I was there for the "All Kilt Day" where every cast member wore a kilt courtesy of http://www.utilikilts.com/. Throughout the show, they were discussing on whether or not a real Scottish person wore underwear under the kilts. Nobody got a clear answer out of Leo on whether or not he was.... During one of the commercial breaks, leo decided to spin around in his kilt, not knowing that it would fly up. Fortunately, he caught himself just in time. That was one of the funniest things I've ever seen happen on the set.

I'm watching the iPod vs. the digital music player world episode. If Kevin or Alex say "thats awesome" one more time, I will kill them. Or myself.

See, the funny part is is that I HAVE seen this benchmark done and I have seen the results. I don't pull crap from thin air. This is exactly my point -- having a minimum required processor and a killer videocard is better than having a minimum required videocard and killer processor. It's been proven by tests.

-Lasereth

You're arguing against stuff I agree with! I never said the videocard wouldn't be bottlenecked with a slow processor. I agree with that. A $500 videocard isn't gonna perform like it should without a fast processor. I'm simply saying if it came down to having a system with a grade A processor or a grade A videocard, the videocard is the way to go as long as your processor is decent (1.5 GHz P4, etc.). I understand that the card will be bottlenecked in a system like that, but it'll still perform better than a better processor with the same old videocard.

And yes, for the average user, a processor upgrade is better if they're not a big gamer. :thumbsup:

-Lasereth

I agree, the whole thing sucks. I used to love that they replayed it multupile times each do so I could watch before I went to bed. That show is the sole reason I have digital cable, but now I am debating about saying hasta luego to it.

Lasereth: I must say of all the gamers I know your the only one that would be fine with an average processor so long as the video card was fast as f**k. I guess there are all types but had me or anyone I know had $500-$600 bucks and an average gaming computer, none of us would spend all or even nearly all of it on video card upgrade alone. For example take a Athlon XP 1500+, 384MB DDR, Geforce 4 Ti 4600, 60 gig hd, with $500-$600 bucks it really doesn't improve your computer $500-$600 bucks worth when your just swapping the Geforce 4 for a 6800 Ultra or a Radeon X800 XT. Yes doom 3 will look prettier but it won't run faster and it won't make the computer as a whole faster. If you wanna blow $500 now to just make doom 3 look pretty thats fine by me but the money could be better spent on the system as a whole instead of just doom 3.

Also before I go further everyone is entitled to run whatever kind of system they want but when you recommend something to someone else you should recommend what they want and not what you want. If a dad calls you up and says his son got doom 3 for his birthday but it runs terrible on the family computer and he has $500 to upgrade the computer right now, the right recommendation isn't a $500 video card unless the whole family only plays doom 3 and other video games on the computer.

To almost everyone else, alot of kevin haters I C. I wonder if you hate kevin cuse of kevin or because of the leo, patrick, host no more thing. No reply needed really because I think he's alright and not a dumbass as some here are quick and/or eager to point out. All in all I don't care about anything except for G4 makes and turns good shows into crap, damn comcast monopoly. Where are our anti-monopoly laws when a non-microsoft company tries to take over everything. Around here comcast wants into everything, they already have cable tv, internet, phone, television station. Every year they get into something else and their prices are rediculous.

Again, I'm not arguing that the videocard won't be bottlenecked. I'm simply arguing that a videocard upgrade will benefit today's games way more than a processor upgrade. For the system you mentioned, the same would apply. A newer videocard would benefit way more than a new processor, even if the videocard was only $200.

To illustrate my point more clearly, I took some screenshots of the tests I keep referencing. We'll talk about an Athlon XP 2000+ system with a GeForce 6800 Ultra. What a killer system!! But only if it had a better processor to make the games run better...right? Wrong. The processor is fine. Look what happens when ya upgrade the processor to an Athlon XP 3200+:

<IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/processortest.jpg>

The average FPS for Doom 3 at the highest settings was 46 with the 2000+. Upgrading from the old 2000+ to a 3200+ increases the frames per second from 46 to 67. Not a big increase, but worth mentioning. A 45% increase in frames per second. The game went from playable to playable. 15 FPS is barely noticeable when the game is already running fine with a 6800 Ultra.

Now, we'll take a look at a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 system. Think about how awesome this processor is! 3.2 GHz!! The system was tested first with a GeForce FX 5200 Ultra.

<IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/videocardtest.jpg>

Doom 3 runs at a mere <B>11.3</B> frames per second. That's right, 11.3. Remember that this is the same resolution as the wimpy Athlon XP 2000+ system with the 6800 Ultra that ran it at 45 frames per second.

Now, the videocard in the 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 system is replaced with a GeForce 6800 Ultra:

<IMG SRC=http://www.appstate.edu/~bt52438/videocardtest1.jpg>

The frames per second just jumped to...68.6. So a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with a low-to-midrange videocard (GeForce FX 5200 Ultra) at 11.3 frames per second jumped to 68.6 frames per second with a videocard upgrade. That's a <B>607%</B> increase in raw performance from using a better videocard.

Which would you rather upgrade...the videocard, which gives a 600% increase in power with games, or a processor, which gives a 45% increase in power when the game was already playable? Going with a low-end processor and a high-end videocard is obviously better than going with a low-end videocard and a high-end processor. This is laid out clearly.

This information doesn't apply to non-gamers. The videocard doesn't matter for non-gamers. This is simply for people wondering which aspect of your PC matters when upgrading. Using a top of the line 6800 Ultra with an old Athlon XP 2000+ proved to be nearly 500% better than using a blazing 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 with a GeForce FX 5200 Ultra. I can't explain it any more clearly. The results are here: videocard matters more.

-Lasereth

While this does lend some credence to your argument the first test isn't really a good indicator. An XP 2000+ should hardly be considered a bad, or even low range processor. Although, the second test with a very fast processor and a slow video card does prove your point perfectly.

I like Kevin Rose for all the dark tips and hacking he does. But everybody else can leave and put in the real techies at toms hardware and anandtech like you said. The MX440 in their rig was dumbass. X800?????????

lol. the poll is really funny, it is the "get everything cheat" everytime! What the hell is the point of the poll when it is the "get everything cheat" everytime? Just put a damn segment of "get everything cheat" in the show! Cheat is gay, infact G4 is gay.

A processor that can be bought for a mere $50 is low-end. A mid-range processor is $150-$250, and high-end is more than $300. I do it by price, not by performance. :) Although you're right, the second example basically lays it down flat.

-Lasereth

Lasereth: Good fucking point. I was considering overclocking right after D3 first came out, but researched it and found that replacing my old vid card - POS, sorry ATI - with the 6800 would help way more. Very happy with it.

One last thing to say, considering this thread is on TechTV:
We need more Morgan Webb. There needs to be an all Morgan Webb channel. I don't care how deep cable it is. Fuck it, they already have ZTV copyrighted. Put her out in deep cable under that name and I shit you not, the geeks would come running.

Heh
 

I shit you not, I love her.

http://image.pbase.com/u47/zakooldud...organandme.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/zakooldude/image/34055599/original

Lasereth: Not that it really matters or I care but I don't know that many rich people or people that only use their computers for gaming. $500 for just a video card is out of almost everyone I know's league. It doesn't matter how wicked the video card is if the price is out of your reach. If you can afford a bleeding edge video card you should be able to afford a bleeding edge or close to processor along with everything else computer. I never did say I recommended processor over video card for any gamer but I still don't disagree with kevin recommending a processor. We don't know if the person had a game only machine or if gaming was just a hobby so you can't really say anything is better over the other. As far as all those benchmarks they really only test video card speed and not processor speed, also what self respecting gamer is going to buy a GFX5200? The 5200 doesn't even keep up with a GF4 Ti 4600. Another thing about your benchmarks, they're wrong I've seen an ATI Radeon 9600XT bench better than 17.6 fps on a AMD Athlon XP 2000+ so it definitely is gonna do better on a 3.2Ghz pentium 4. All in all it still boils down to you haven't shown that kevin was wrong. Further than that I don't care anymore, I know my pc and game stuff and utilize it for function rather than debate. Back to the main subject at hand.

I was recently able to watch the new screen savers and I must say OMG G4 has transformed it into absolute crap. Everything about the show from the script, set, dialogue, topics is crap. What the hell was that overclocking a toothbrush crap. Seriously who really yearns to shave milli-seconds off their brushing time at the risk if harming their gums. I couldn't even watch the whole hour, after 30 mins it was clear that tss was forever lost/murdered by G4. Comcast is the devil and should go back to hell.

The only thing I like better about the new show is that they are a little more daring and loose. Patrick was such a stiff and formal guy, compared to Albrect. Not that Albrect is better than Patrick, but I always got the sense that Patrick wanted to say a little more but held his tongue for whatever reason... Oh yeah, and there is way more eye candy now than before.

The benchmark tested videocard speed and processor speed. Look at the pictures! There's like 10 videocards versus each other and 20 processors versus each other. I'd say that's a processor speed test!

I'm not sure what the 9600XT thing is about, but ya can't say that "they're wrong" because it's a controlled test under controlled conditions. A 9600XT will run Doom 3, but not more than 17 FPS at 1280x1024. That's suicide settings for a majority of the videocards on the market.

I did show that Kevin was wrong. He said that a processor upgrade is better for gaming systems. He's wrong. The results I posted prove him wrong through and through 100%. A videocard upgrade is more beneficial to an average system than a processor upgrade concerning gaming. Kevin said the exact opposite of this, therefore he's wrong.

-Lasereth

Back to the topic, it looks like The Screensavers is going to change once again.
www.kevinrose.com
I can't say that I'm too dissapointed, the new TSS was totally stupid, they moved away from most real tech stuff.

Ho-ly shit. That sucks. TSS is finally in the pooper. They were looking down but not out with the loss of Leo and Patrick, and the final nail is now in the coffin. A sad day...

OMG patrick left!?!?!?1 noooo

damn i have not watched techtv since G4 bought them out
do they still allow kevin to talk about xbox modding because that in my mind is why he became popular

Does KAT still work for techtv?? or she left??

yea Leo has his own show on G4techtv canada geez they are paying him big bucks

From kevinrose.com:

They're cancelling Unscrewed? Is there any original TechTV show that's still on the network? (besides X-Play) It's official now - G4TechTV sucks. There's nothing more to it.

And with The Screen Savers, they're getting rid of Yoshi, the last remnant of the good old days of TechTV.

Screw you G4Tech. You've completely lost another viewer.

WTF yoshi is gone too what the hell are they doing.....

and unscrewed is cancelled!! liked martin wow G4techtv is going down hill

Chris Pirillo. Major dork. Exactly the kind of weeny computer-geek high-school kid you want answering your tech questions. In short, he did a great job with the show, but few people could stand to watch more than a couple minutes of it.

I too mourn the TSS Good Old Days. Leo, Pat, Megan, and Morgan made my afternoons for a while there! Morgan gets all the dool these days, but remember that Megan was a cutie, too!

TSS definitely sucks now. I used to watch it all the time, but it has become unbearable. I can't stand G4, why take something that works and change it? What was wrong with TechTV the way it was. OK maybe they needed more funding so a larger fish came along and swallowed them up, but why does that mean that things need to change? I still watch X Play since that really hasn't changed. If Morgan Webb left, I don't think I could watch 30 minutes of Adam Sessler minus eye candy.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I remember the good ol' days. TSS was on at 6pm, and I'd have it waiting for me in the PVR list when I got home at 6:30. The new (soon to be old TSS v2.0) is nothing like what it was with Leo, Pat, and co.

i used to watch it at 8am awww the good old days

what happen to KAT?? anyone know??

Oh, come on. Yoshi's the man! Who's gonna do all the mods now? Argh...

Here's Alex's take on the TSS changes from his <a href="http://alexalbrecht.typepad.com/">Blog</a>:

Wow, Alex makes it sound even worse than I thought. I hate the new direction the new TSS was taking, Alex makes it sound like it's going even more so in that direction. I mean the new TSS they were producing was starting to look more and more like something that belonged on Spike TV, not a channel about technology.

Its good that you can talk about hating G4 because if say the slightest thing about Alex or how bad G4Tech is, its an automatic ban from the site. Can you belive that, it thought it was a message board and tips on how to improve the show. It's like the "Rock Says" IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Complain to them and you get thrown out.

Anyone catch the *new* new Screen Savers tonight? I think it is the first of the new episodes. Looks like they took one of the tools from G4tv.com as the new cohost. That Chi Lan broad is ok. But just ok. He even pointed out how much people are going after him on the forums. Time to see how this one plays out.

WOW, that show royally sucked

I had watched the show religiously for a few years - I didn't like it when Leo left, but I could deal with it because I actually liked Kevin - and Leo still had Call for Help (the best show for his personality). When it was just Patrick and Kevin I still liked it because Patrick kept Kevin grounded. When Patrick left and Alex took over it was like they were aiming for a totally different demographic though.

The old show used to have about 25% of it's time set aside for n00bs, 25% set aside for tech news and the rest for the hardcore geek. Now they have 5% tech news, 20% for stupid celebrity interviews and the rest for talking crap for the absolutely lowest common denominator (Kevin talking about his sex life - which would really piss me off if I were Sarah). I'm not an Alex hater - but he didn't know much about anything. With the old show you had the impression that the hosts actually knew what they were talking about, with Alex you could tell he was just a cue card reader.

Oh well, it's obvious that G4 is aiming for a different viewer than me. Which is sad because I freakin loved the show before.

I can't believe they fired Yoshi. He was the only one of the younger generation with legit skillz.

I don't get why they fired Alex to replace him with Pereira. It's not like Pereira is funnier or more tech savy. In my opinion, and maybe it's not a fair one cause it's only been one show, but Pereira is inferior to Alex in every way. And the new guy taking calls is pretty much Foo without the stammering, what's the point?

It's funny how Kevin Rose stepped down as host yet he was on almost as much as the other guys. He probably did a smart thing because its obvious this new show isn't going to get much better; this way when it fails he won't get blamed for it.

Is the show still actually live anymore? If so again, what's the point? They take maybe one call per show, and they totally rehearse the answer before hand.

Well I'm sure we have all heard the sad news. The Screen Savers has been cance...err renamed. It is going to be called "Attack of the Show" as of March 28th. I may have said it before, but this is truly the final nail in the coffin. I was crusing through the G4Tec....err G4 forums and saw this:
http://img220.exs.cx/img220/3927/tssmemorynew6ex.jpg
Seeing that genuinely made me sad. I am really going to miss TSS. And I know everyone know what show I am really referring to.

That really is a shame. I used to watch it back when it was on ZDTV (ages ago), with Leo and Kate. They were nerds, yes, but they knew what they were talking about, and quickly adapted to using their geek skills live in front of a camera. For a long while, it was a definite daily watch, and the level of interactivity, being able to call or email during the show and get your questions answered, was awesome. It didn't just pander to newbies, either...even in the most basic explanations, there'd be some bit of trivia or useful tidbit for the hardcore geeks in the audience. And you could tell they knew precisely what they were talking about, whether or not they were reading it off a a teleprompter. Constantly entertaining, constantly educational, and now the last vestiges of what was once the greatest computer show in existence are gone.

Wait... seriously? "Attack of the Show"? WTF kinda name is that? Will the next summer blockbuster (oops, I mean flop) be called "Attack of the movie"? How about "Attack of the Novel"?

"Attack Of The Show"??????
Lameass morons. I guess it just goes to show you exactly how stupid this outfit is. At least they are no longer fouling the Screensavers name.

G4TechTV is actually still G4TechTV in Canada. Call For Help with Leo (!!) is available there. Oh to be Canadian!

You think G4 would pay attention and realize that TSS was the best thing going for them. TSS forum activity is 2000 topics higher than the second place X-Play (a TechTV original as we all know) and 4000 higher than G4.com. Most of the activity is negative against the name switch.

Honestly I have no problem that TSS is changing to a new name.

But Attack of the Show? WHAT THE FUCK!

So the only TechTV shows left are.... X-Play and RobotWars (which is just leftover BBC drivel).

I never liked the first TSS but the new one is abysmal. Me and my roommate watch it every now and then and always turn it. Has anyone noticed that all they do now is show the viewers random crappy websites they found on the Internet or stupid .swf movies? How can this be shown on TV? This is a truly worthless show.

*EDIT*

I LOVE ROBOT WARS!!! I seriously like that show. The announcer is annoying and the contestants are annoying but the actual show is very entertaining. There's a lot of ingenuity put into those robots. Some of them are pure technological genious. What more could you ask for than 300 pound metal robots FIGHTING EACH OTHER?? YEE-HAW!!!

-Lasereth

Heh, I was wondering if anyone would be offended with the RobotWars comment :)

<IMG SRC=http://www.btinternet.com/~patricks.web/robots/craig1.JPG>

OH YEAH!! Ha ha I seriously love that show. I know a lot of the robot's names. Get'em Razer!!

-Lasereth

Well we can agree on this, Las: TSS is gone, and the new name (which I personally believe could be an April Fools joke) sucks. :)

(had to steer it back on track...)

just checking out the new LA weekly and lo, what is this? a "featured" link to martin seargant's personal.

http://personals.laweekly.com/profil...Wi83ygVLzUE%3d

http://images.springstreetnetworks.c...AUZHUIMDLC.jpg

line up now, ladies, for a piece of this dreamy host of a defunct show
"email [him]!"
maybe laura is on there somewhere, heh heh

Normally I read the whole thread before commenting but I just wanted to say that people like you are the reason Lasereth can say with complete justification that a CS degree doesn't mean shit with regard to knowledge about computers. A CS degree is about data structures, and theory. I'm not even sure you are a CS major / degree/ whatever after reading your "Graphics will look better versus game will run faster" sentence. Seriously, just try to justify that.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

That profile is pretty sad.

Also, back to catback, you clearly don't understand how putting in something like memory into a rig can actually make it appear to be faster even though you're not increasing the speed. Hell you're not even defining your terms for speed.

I mean seriously. If you have a CS degree then it's even more worthless than I could have imagined.

I was chatting with my friend yesterday, and we made a good realization:

Think back to the "classic" TechTV girls (read: TechLive, FreshGear; Sumi Das, Erica Hill...). Do you know where they ended up after they left TechTV? I've seen them on Headline News and CNN.

Now think of the current G4 girls. Where do you think they would end up after they leave G4?

And on a side note: The Whip Set. The Shit Set. Explain to me what the hell this has to do with video games and technology.

i now watch call for help, i use to watch screen savers but now it shits me..

If your looking for new tech stuff, information or what really works G4 isn't it. Unless your a gamer the "hole" channel sucks!

Just in case some of you didn't know, the old ScreenSavers crew (Kevin, Pat, Leo, Yoshi, and Robert Heron) have started a podcast called This Week in Tech (TWiT). It's fairly informative, but of course it won't beat seeing them on TV again, but it's close enough. It is, however, nice to hear them all back together again. The URL is www.twit.tv if you'd like to check it out.

Also, Kevin Rose is starting an "internet television" show called Systm, which he says will be more like the old Screensavers in that it's way more in depth than the stuff AoTS is allowed to do now.

I do hate G4... but their E3 coverage has been exceptional, I think.

glytch just touched on this above, but Kevin Rose is leaving G4. He said he was in litigation with the lawyers of G4 for 3 weeks before they released him from his contract. Maybe G4 will realise how much AoTS sucks and bring TSS back.... or maybe not.

With everybody good gone? Leo's up in Canada with Call for Help, KRose is off doing Systm and thebroken, and I'm sure Patrick, Foo, and Sarah are occupied somewhere else, too.

Alright, here's everything I know about what the "good" Screensavers crew is up to now:

Kevin Rose: TWiT (Weekly podcast <a href="http://www.twit.tv">Link</a>), Systm (Internet geek show <a href="http://www.systm.org">Link</a>), thebroken (Not sure if there will be regular updates to this show. I think Systm is his main focus <a href="http://www.thebroken.org">Link</a>.)

Leo Laporte: TWiT (Weekly podcast <a href="http://www.twit.tv">Link</a>), The Laporte Report (podcast of his radio appearences on KFI as well as a few other audio files <a href="http://www.leoville.com">Link</a>), and the new Call For Help (you can find torrents of the new shows at <a href="http://www.cfhtracker.info">cfhtracker.info</a>).

Patrick Norton: Works at <a href="http://www.extremeipod.com">Extreme iPod</a>. He also is a part of the TWiTcast (which I won't link anymore, you get the picture).

Robert Heron, Yoshi: These two, in addition to being part of TWiT, also work on a fairly cool web show called <a href="http://www.fromtheshadows.tv">From The Shadows</a>. It's definately worth a look.

Dan "Foo" Huard: He works on Systm and thebroken with Kevin (linked above), and runs his own site at <a href="http://www.scopetech.net">Scopetech.net</a>.

Sarah Lane: Sarah's still with G4 on Attack of the Show. She seems fairly happy there.

Did I miss anyone?

TSS was great back in the day when all the people mentioned by glytch were still there. I watched it religiously. I even met Patrick and Leo when they did an autograph session at a local CompUSA.

In my opinion it started going down hill when the co-hosts (like Kevin, Sarah, etc.) started hosting the show when Leo and Patrick went on their many vacations or whatever the hell they were always off doing. It became a show ran by kids when they hosted. Then when Leo and Pat left for good, I lost interest and watched very little TechTV until the last couple months.

I enjoyed Martin Sargent's show (I forgot what it was called though...), and Kevin and Sarah's show, Attack of the Show. However, I doubt i'll be watching too much more of that because Kevin Rose just left. Friday's episode was Kevin's last episode. He is leaving G4 to start his own web based show.

There is actually a lot of shows on right now that have great potential if it wasn't for the horribly obvious scripting. The thing I miss most about TSS was how it felt so "real." I never felt like they were reading off a screen, it always seemed like they knew what they were talking about. But today, shows like Attack of the Show and X-Play are absolutly horrible because they are so obviously scripted; the people even admit it, and make comments about it! It's ridiculous!

One show i've always hated is X-play. I hate Adam Sessler, and have even grown to hate Morgan Webb, who ruined her image with bitchy attitude and gothic attire. I loved her on TSS, but she's been corrupted by the hell people call X-Play. "Brutally honest" game reviews (as they call it) is one thing, but they step over the line. Tommy Tallarico on Judgement Day does a great job of giving "brutally honest" game reviews to bad games. Adam Sessler, on the other hand, is just stupid about it. It's tough to take him, and Morgan Webb at times, seriously when they act like immature retards.

There are, however, SOME good things about G4TV. Some shows I really enjoy include Icons, Judgement Day, and though horribly scripted, Attack of the show. I love learning the history of great games, software, hardware, and developers on Icons, even if the show is a complete rip off of VH1's "I Love the 80s" series. On Judgement Day, Tommy Tallarico and Victor Lucas in my opinion give the best video game reviews around right now. They're funny, always have a fair amount of pros and cons for the games, and always find the interesting and appealing points of the game to share.

I think that show Arena is a great idea but, that host has got to go. I always thought it would be cool if video gaming was considered a sport, but I think they approached it the wrong way. I'm not exactly sure how, but I do believe there is a way to make the show work, and be very enjoyable to watch. I'll have to give it some thought.


Anyway...
thats my $0.02 :D

Martin's show was titled "Unscrewed"

We have different opinions but I think we can all agree G4 killed TechTV.

I gotta disagree with ya a bit, Todd. X-Play is one of the two shows (the other being Icons) on G4 that I actually watch. If you watched the E3 coverage, Adam Sessler actually had the best information and opinions to give during the conference (in my opinion). On top of that, he's a true geek, which earns major respect points from me. Plus the sense of humor he has (or perhaps scripted for him, whichever) goes with me.

Hehehe, nearly 5 years ago now I got to meet Leo Laporte and Kate Botello. Not only did I get to shake their hands and everything, but I have an autographed pic of them on the ORIGINAL TSS set, with "ZDTV" written in the corner. Man, that thing has got to be worth alot now...