video editors

[hannukah harry]

any ideas on what are good video editors? i'm familiar with final cut pro, but don't have a mac so i can't pick it up. do any of you know any programs that work on XP and, while they don't have to be as good as final cut, are at least decent?

thanks!

[vanblah]

Sony Vegas is pretty much the same league as Final Cut Pro; even better depending on who you ask. It's what I use: Sony Creative Software - Vegas Pro 8 video editing & dvd authoring software - Free Download

Some people like Adobe Premier; but I don't care for it--the interface seems a little cluttered: video editing software, digital video editing | Adobe Premiere Pro CS4

Doug

[shakran]

I'll vote Premiere. It's every bit as good as final cut, and since it's not on a Mac, it's even better

Pricey, though.

[LoganSnake]

Pinnacle Studio is pretty good. I've used it a few times.

[Glory's Sun]

Sony Vegas is not .. even.. close.. to Final Cut. Sorry. Vegas is for home editing. and that's it. Nobody would use Vegas for a real workflow.

Adobe Premiere is about as good as Final Cut but again it depends on what you are doing. It won't be used for a heavy workflow or heavy media management, but if you're just cutting and chopping up some home movies it's fine. (Yes it is heavier than that.. so don't get pissy all you adobe fanboys)

Final Cut is great..but I hate it's media management.

I'm on Media Composer from Avid.. but.. it's a bit pricey. It will work on XP just fine. It has a very steep learning curve however. So, since I don't know what you're doing with the NLE I don't know how to really direct you in your purchase.

Another great option is Edius Pro. Edius software doesn't need any hardware add-ons like FCP and Avid generally do and for the $1,000 program..you get Real Time Render. That's a huge bargain for $1,000. It's interface is fairly clean and easy so you shouldn't have any problems using it.

So really.. what are you going to be using an NLE for? Hell you may even just be able to get by with After Effects. The right NLE is real dependent on work flow and media management.

I love Avid but it's not for the faint of heart.. and I like Final Cut .. but for me it's like this Avid>DPS Velocity>FCP>Edius>Premiere>>>>>Vegas

and just an FYI, Pinnacle was bought out by Avid a few years back.

[vanblah]

Originally Posted by guccilvr

Nobody would use Vegas for a real workflow.

Thanks for calling me "Nobody." I really appreciate your personal feelings.

[Glory's Sun]

Originally Posted by vanblah

Thanks for calling me "Nobody." I really appreciate your personal feelings.

I appreciate you taking general statements and making them personal.



I'm in the biz.. I know what works and what doesn't. Vegas is crap when it comes to media management and output. It's a huge joke in the industry. If you don't know Avid or Final Cut.. you won't have a job. It's that simple.

That's why I was asking what the OP was going to be using the NLE for. He may very well get by with Vegas. However, if he's trying to get into a production house or start a career, he can just leave it on the shelf. It serves no purpose at that point.

Editing comes down to which you prefer. They all function in the same basic setup (timeline, cut, dissolve blah blah) but the way they react and how effects are applied and power as well as resolution base is different. That's why Vegas will never be used for a real workflow. It just can't handle a workflow.. and when I say real workflow.. I'm talking broadcast workflow. Premiere is light years ahead of Vegas and nobody even uses that for a real workflow. There is a reason behind this.. they are slow, fussy and just don't manage media very well.

If however, the OP is just interested in cutting some basic music vids or home movies or just playing around.. vegas will work fine.

So, I wasn't calling *YOU* a nobody.. I was merely pointing out that it's a waste of money unless you are just using it to do simple things.

[vanblah]

Yes. I'm in the entertainment biz too (at least as far as music production goes). Most of what I hear borders religious zealotry when it comes to preferred editors for music and video.

Personally, I'm agnostic when it comes to operating systems and work-flow methods and software used to produce "works-of-art." It's not the tools you use ... it's the results you get. It's the sign of a poor carpenter who blames his tools etc., ad nauseum. Besides, I prefer to work in the real world, not the digital world.

I do appreciate that you are much more proficient and knowledgeable about video editing. My suggestions were based on the fact that Final Cut Pro and Vegas and Premiere all cost about the same price and produce about the same quality of material without getting into broadcast quality.

I feel the same about music production. If you have a crappy microphone and a crappy sound card and you use Audacity to produce your music you probably won't be getting a job at a recording studio anytime soon. But that shouldn't stop you from doing what you love.

I also realize that you were not talking directly to me in your reply. It was just a snarky reply from me. Perhaps I should have used a smilie face.

[hannukah harry]

hey guys, thanks for the replies!

i just finished a beginner digital video class, had to make a documentary for it and we used Final Cut. I'll be taking the advanced class next semester. So I'll have use of Final Cut until the end of April, but I'm hoping to start working on a short film by the end of the summer, and I won't have FC to use anymore. So I'm looking for something that I can use to practice editing with, and use for any film projects I do until I can afford to pick up a Mac and FC. I'm not looking at film being a career (although I'd love that) but I wouldn't mind turning film or video production into a second/part-time career after I finish nursing school and am only working 3 days a week. So whatever can help me learn to edit proficiently, works for me. I figure at the moment the particular product isn't as important as learning editing techniques, transitions, etc.

[Glory's Sun]

Well if you're used to FC, then Premiere is probably the way to go. Avid is probably too pricey, as well as too steep. I've yet to see an FCP editor sit in front of an Avid station and handle it properly.. but I've seen Avid editors pick up FCP quickly. If you're just learning the basics then go with Premiere or Edius. Edius has real time render and that is a lovely feature.

As far as the product not being important, well..as you can tell from the exchange between me and vanblah (no hard feelings ...) it does matter. Since you don't have to worry about media management as much.. either of the "lower" setups will work.

vanblah: I'm not an Avid fanboy per say, I just like how I can do things on it, it's layout and it's features as well as the media management aspect. Media Management is a huge factor for me, so you can see why I don't like vegas. I know FCP and while it's relatively easy to learn and cut on, I hate it's media management. I've used Vegas once.. and cursed it so much I swore it down from that day on.

Since hannukah is going to be using it for some film projects I still recommend picking up avid if affordable since media management will be important. I think Avid has done away with XpressPro, but there may be some other options.. if not then Premiere is still the best bet. Since After Effects integrates well with Premiere (duh Adobe right?) that may be the best option at this point.

One word of advice hannukah.. transitions and effects may be fun to play with.. but don't get carried away. If your final product looks like an effect bin threw up on your project.. you'll lose your message.

Edit: hannukah: check out creativecow.net for tons of tutorials and great articles on film effects and everything in between. There's great stuff on there.. and it's free

[sapiens]

My wife bought Avid while she was in grad school at a steeply discounted price. You can find Media Composer 3.0 for around $295 if you're a current student, faculty, or staff member at an accredited academic institution. Not a bad deal.

[shakran]

Final Cut and Premiere can and often are used for broadcast-quality work. In fact, were either of them to get a decent back end for direct-to-air video servers, I think they'd kill Avid. The Airspeed system is nice and everything, but the actual editing in Avid is archaic compared to the ease of FC or Premiere. The only editing advantage Avid has over those two is that its color corrector is worlds better, and some of its more jazzy effects are. . well. . more jazzy Nothing that After Effects or Motion can't wipe the floor with, though.

Basically, if you don't need a tapeless broadcast environment (i.e. your video gets uploaded from the edit bay to the on-air server, and is played without the need of a tape) then Avid is not, in my opinion, the editor for you.

[Glory's Sun]

Motion is horrible. That's the one aspect of Apples suite that just sucks. Other than it's CC.Thankfully, we have a great product like After Effects so I don't have to worry about motion. See I find Premiere to be archaic compared to Avid. Which is why I say it's often up to the actual person using the software to determine which is the best solution for them.

I wasn't saying that FCP and Premiere aren't used for broadcast.. in fact, you pretty much have to know FCP along with Avid to get anywhere these days.. except in the larger production houses and film houses. Those are still Avid dominated. There is a lot of hype surrounding FCP, but most of it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. If you notice, Avid seems to be hitting the industry from the top down..while FCP hits it from the bottom up. Alot of freelance editors are fresh out of school and have that "mac is the only decent thing for creative use" mentality so naturally they are on FCP.

We all know that I'm a mac fan, but since Avid works fine on a mac, no problems .. The thing is however, that most high paying jobs still require Avid experience and knowledge. It's still the industry standard and I don't think that's going to change. Ok back to the Apple hype. Alot of people noticed that the BBC changed over to an FCP setup.. and that you see alot of jobs for FCP editors online etc. Well the BBC changed over merely for the fact that Apple came out with and HDV solution first.... now they probably wish they would have waited. Jobs online? well.. there probably isn't going to be a very high paying job online like craigslist. Most of those if you read are pay is part of profit or no pay, but may lead to pay later type jobs. So basically Avid has locked up the film and big house market, while Apple has locked up the independent market.

One thing that's beautiful about Avid is I can media and everything on my computer. I can put that media onto a harddrive, FedEx it to another freelance editor, and he can just email his bins to me when he's done and voila I can post from there. Just try to do that on FCP or Premiere.. see what happens.

Plus, now that the beautiful piece of software named Automatic Duck is out, I can go back and forth between FCP and Avid if necessary.

FCP contrary to alot of popular belief is not the only application that can handle native HD and SD on the same timeline. Media Composer does this with ease. Native P2 editing is simple with Media Composer and there is Red on the way (if not already..haven't had the need for it yet)

This isn't about which is the best NLE in the world as people in the biz need to know how to use many different tools. I'm just stating how the hype around FCP and that horrible motion isn't as grand as it would first appear.