Friday Night Fights (Pistons/Pacers Game)
 

...in Detroit.

For those of whom didn't see:

Ron Artest fouls Ben Wallace near the end of the Pacers-Pistons game. Wallace comes after him and shoves him. They are seperated and move toward the bench, where Artest ends up on the scorers' table. He is then hit in the face by someone's cup with whatever the drink was still there, and he goes into the stands after the guy who threw it followed by teammates. After getting seperated, the Pacers are pelted with everything not nailed down walking off the floor.

Absolutely shameful performance.

Im guessing it just happened today? Cuz i really want to see this. Ill make sure to check sports center later.

They just showed that on the news here. Holy shit! I gotta imagine there will be some massive suspensions for this one.

It just happened about a half hour ago from this post. I live 15 minutes from the Palace (where it happened), used to work there, and have a few friends that do. One just told me he was down in the middle of it, and got hurt pretty bad.

The sports fan in me is going "WOOHOOOOO!!! This makes up for no hockey!" But the compassionate human in me thinks it was disgraceful and cowardly. Regardless, it will be all over espn. As one of the announcers said, "you'll never see anything like this in professional sports ever again". It was NUTS.

After watching it several times, here's what I think:

- There needs to be one suspension here: Ben Wallace. He escalated the situation by going after Artest even after being restrained.

- Detroit needs to be forced to forfeit games. There is NO EXCUSE for this. The fans of Detroit should be ashamed.

Artest layed down on the announcer table to encourage Ben, put on the announcers headset with Ben after him, went INTO THE STANDS after the WRONG guy, punched numerous people in the face, including a towel boy, and you don't think he should be suspended? Remember, the pacers ran into the crowd first, not the pistons. Stephen Jackson and Ron Artest should be fined and suspsended just like Big Ben (who overreacted, hardcore). As far as forfeiting games, please. Larry Brown, two weeks off hip surgery, was running around trying to make announcements for people to stop, Rasheed of all people was trying to break it up, and even Ben was trying to stop it after Artest the crazy ran into the stands. They have no control over the thousands that were there to see the game.

At least Artest will have time to promote his rap album now. November 23rd!

Damnit, Artest is on my fantasy team.

What does that have to do with anything?

Artest went after someone who THREW A FULL CUP at his FACE. I consider that self-defense.

Well, good for them. The forfeiting is about the fans. Show that the TEAM gets hurt by YOUR actions, and maybe there won't be any more events like this.

In my opinion, yes there should be several smaller, but still many many game suspensions, for a lot of people, least of all Big Ben for causing it to start.

However, they need to make an example of this debacle, and a huge one at that. I say any player for either team that hit anyone in the stands gets at least a half-season suspension, if not full season. The only ones I saw were the two Pacers players, though there could've been more and/or on the other team. Also, because of the crowd inciting parts of it themselves, I believe the Pistons should have to forfiet several games because of the incident, to show all crowds that shit like that will not be accepted.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=241119008

Wow.......... is all i have to say. I just saw the replay, and it was just sad. People throwing stuff at players, fist being thrown, and i think i saw a Pacer pick up a broom stick and hold it like a bat as to hit someone. I also saw when Artest stragiht up threw a punch at a guy that seemed like was gonna start a fight with him, and other fans going after Artest. Totally shameful.

Saw the replay.... thought I was watching the Vibe awards. Pretty sorry sight for all involved.

wow
Ron Ron and Stephen Jackson were beastin' out there. Laughing at that old dude that got rocked.

You guys see the Street Fighter lunge and punch by J. O Neal? Holy Crap. It happened after Artest punched that fat guy in the Pistons jersey on the court. In the background, you see J Oneal slide like hes playing for the Yankees and land a punch right in the guys face/throat.

Definitely some 15+ game suspensions, and some fans will definitely make some money off civil lawsuits, especially with so many cameras.

That money will serve them well in prison, where they'll be since there were so many cameras.

That was fucking awsome!! I just saw the whole thing on ESPN... man

Ok now on a serious note... there is too much crowd involvement going on with taunting and assaulting players, and something needs to be done, things are getting out of hand...

But really we just witnessed some history here....

That was crazy I was watching the game but switched to a different channel in the 3rd. Watching sportscenter and see the punch by punch analysis.. Chaos

i don't agree with artest punching the guy in the pistons jersey, but i wonder "what the hell was the guy thinking?" maybe, i'll show some fist, maybe get hit and get a shit ton of cash? just a thought. with america's sue-happy society, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he thought about this.

That's just uncalled for these people are supposed to be PROFESSIONAL athletes. If they can't take a little bit of heckling, they shouldn't play the fucking game. Self-defense??? it was a plastic cup. Every player that hit any fans should just be fired, period!!

Fans were definitely in the wrong here. The only players that should be suspended here are Wallace (for the original, totally uncalled for shove), Jackson (for enciting more fighting), and O'Neil (for sucker punching that fan when he was already down).

Artest did nothing wrong, he was just defending himself which he has every right to do.

And the detroit fans should be ashamed of themselves. That was horrible.

Hitting someone with a cup full of beer is considered assault. The players had every right to defend themselves. If fans are allowed to do things like that with no consequences we'd be seeing things like this a lot more often.

In under 5 years you will see someone in the NFL, NBA or Baseball killed or seriously injured by a fan during a game. Where the hell was the security/police. 10 cops jumping into the stands right at the start of this fight would've made a difference. But they are Detroit cops and they were probably watching and laughing until it got ugly.

The old bald dude who was uppercutting artest from behind after trying to peel Artest off should be thrown in jail as should that fat fool in the jersey who went onto the floor. At some point I would've been a little freaked out if I were a Pacer player and throwing punches is a natural reaction when some creep chucks his foul hepetitis/cold sore sour beer in your face.

If I were a player I would hire two huge guys to go to games with me and jump in the stands to take care of this shit.

Artest was wrong, but remember you don't know what kinda liquid crap is being thrown on you and what might follow next raining down from the crowd.

What a disgrace. The Pistons should be ashamed that their fans acted in such a matter. Yes, Artest, Stephen Jackson, O'Neal, Ben Wallace, among others, should be suspended and fined heavily. The riot ensued due to the countless debris...including chairs, that were thrown into the melee by the mob action. I'm sorry if the majority of Pistons fans were not involved or whatever, but this incident is one of a kind and will serve as an example of their fans.

Artest should be banned from basketball. (Pete Rose was banned for less). That was the most disgraceful ghetto shit I've ever seen in my life. On the other hand, that was fucking awesome. I'm watching every basketball game I can until June. Who misses hockey now? Not me.

Still, Artest should never play another NBA game again. He is supposed to be a professional. If a professional gets a cup of beer thrown at him he should be mature enough to have the sense to know the consequences of his actions. It was just a fucking beer. Go to the locker room and take a breath. You are getting paid millions. There is no reason for this. The fans that participated in the riot should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but a paid professional should behave like one, and if not, should no longer be a professional, but he's nothing but a thug. That is all Artest is, a thug, a ghetto-ass thug. Ban his ghetto-ass from basketball.

Any fans injured in that melee should sue Artest, the Pacers, and the NBA. There is no legitimate excuse for such unprofessional, immature nonsense. If I didn't get off on such shit I would be pissed. Don't get me wrong, it was the highlight of my night, but those responsible for such an unprofessional display of ghettoism and thuggery (and their children) should be banned from the sport forever. Fucking hoodlems.

Artest overreacted.

The fans should be punished somehow, I hope some are arrested. They were truly the worst part of all of this.

Except for any fan that threw something, jumped in, raised a fist, or threw a punch. All of those fans got what they deserved.

I've seen crazy fights at local hockey and soccer games where the fans were related to the players getting punched and most fans behave with more honor than what I saw tonight. I think I saw maybe one fan in 20 trying to make a responsible choice and not just egging shit on.

If you really want to hurt piston fans they should do something creative and take away beer sales for the year.

Also, I would make it a rule that any player jumping into the stands for any reason is subject to a half-season unpaid suspension. period.

Teams also should be fined heavily whenever their security fails to protect players in the field of play.

The fat guy who came on the court and got sucker punched for his troubles got exactly what he deserved.

Ron Artest is about to get a rather big suspension. Whether it's deserved or not is debatable. I really can't blame him for being that angry, and I know it's hard in the heat of the moment, but he HAS to know better than to jump in the crowd. As soon as he did that, all bets were off.

For the people saying Ben Wallace is to blame for all this, look closer...Wallace may have started it, but Stephen Jackson did all he could to look for fights. His suspension should be the biggest of all.

Pistons fans should be ashamed of themselves, they really should. But this could happen at any arena in the country (except maybe Salt Lake City). So stop with the Detroit stereotypes.

Finally, John Saunders is a complete asshat. Yes, the fans are at fault, but, no matter what happened to provoke it, it is NOT OK to jump in the stands. For Saunders, as a "responsible" journalist, to absolve the players of responsibility is absolutely ridiculous. I'm so sick of holier-than-thou types such as Saunders. But this is the same guy who's touting Braylon Edwards for the Heisman, which shows his complete lack of credibility for...anything. (By the way, that's a joke).

I'm sure this is exactly what the NBA needed.

Riots in the stands...they're faaaaaaaantastic!

It's actually what I needed. This has been the only thing this season that has taken my mind off the fact that I'm a Laker fan and have to hope Kobe does well every night so my team can win.

The NBA is truly craptastic.

True. I wasn't thinking about them. they have no right to any compensation whatsoever, but as for any innocent bystander...

wowowow....that was insane. everyone is to blame here, but those fans were just awful. and for any of those fans that stormed the court on their own will (like the dude who walked up to artest with his buddy looking like they wanted to start some trouble) are as guilty as anyone. but wow...that guy just got DECKED by Jermaine O'Neal. I feel kind of guilty for laughing, but after watching the replay on ESPN about 20 times in the past 5 minutes, I can't help but watch it over and over again and just laugh.


it'll be interesting to see what kind of suspensions and fines are handed down.

I've been to plenty of Lakers games at Staples Center in LA. There are so many security guards in red jackets on the court everytime there is a timeout or stoppage, NOBODY can get onto the court without getting taken down.

Besides that, do yo know how many bodyguards Kobe, Jack Nicholson and those types have with them? this wouldnt happen inside Staples.

Those of you who defend Artest by claiming what he did was in self-defense are just plain wrong. The plastic cup full of beer was already thrown. What the hell was he defending himself from? He didn't go into the stands to defend himself, he went in there for revenge. I don't care if getting hit with a beer constitutes as assalt. By charging into the stands and hitting the first person you see you are not acting in self-defense, you are acting like a criminal. Artest should be banned from basketball, period. And they might as well discontinue beer sales at NBA games, although that might cause more riots than it prevents...l

Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson need to be suspended for double digit games. NOW I know why San Antonio didn't want Jackson, with his idotic thug mentality. He was provoking Detroit to throw with him right before the melee started. Dumbass.

Ben Wallace should be suspended for at least 5 games. He reacted stupidly to a foul that wasn't even flagrant.

What saddens me is that this is such a knock on the NBA. Rules are going to change that are going to affect the REAL fans and level-headed players on every other team who don't go beserk when they are provoked. Sure, long gone are the days of Larry Bird, Magic and MJ, but for these fools to go and ATTACK the fans is, as Bill Walton put it: "A disgrace." Show some class, walk away, and in the end you are the better man and these "fans" are in jail.

Well I know how to punish the fans, that is an easy one.
Just make them endure Nets games for the rest of the season, nothing but Nets games.

As for Stephen Jackson, leave the guy alone he is a complete angel. He went out there to protect Artest. Oh and ya he is a driving force on my fantasy B-ball team.

I have to say the smartest guy in ths whole entire thing was Tinsley.
You know that everyone that went into the stands even those who were peacekeepers
potentailly can be in big trouble. Golden rule never go in stands.
Well Tinsley was breaking up the fight but doing it from the floor lol.
Did you see him trying to grab Artest while making sure his feet did't leave the court heh heh.
Good thing that Reggie Miller was injured, if he was out there in good health he would have had to pay a lot of milk money to the fans to not beat him up :)

I agree that the Detroit "fans" were way out of hand, thats for sure. But Ron Artest started a snowball of events that led to, in my opinion, the worst display of fan/player situation in all of sports history. Truely a black eye.

The defense of saying "Artest got hit with a cup and reacted in self defense, just how we all would" is bullshit. He makes millions of dollars to play the game and keep his cool. If I knew millions of my dollars were on the line, there is no WAY I would charge into the stands and attack someone (especially the WRONG someone, like Artest did).

Oh, and did anyone see O'Neal drill the player on the court that Artest hit first? Holy crap, he'll be hit hard for that one. The fan didn't attack Artest, but still dropped him, and as he gets up, O'Neal basically knocked him out. I bet he's sore right now.

As a Pistons fan, i'm ashamed that those people are fans of the same team as me, but there's nothing I can do about it. There's stupid cowards everywhere.

http://img119.exs.cx/img119/7963/artestowningfan1.jpg

Haha, man. Poor guy with the "oh shit" face didn't even do anything. But he's the first guy Artest went after.

watched the replay game on espn... I gotta say those fans were out of control!!!

I did like to see those pacer teammates go running up after there boys and throwing KOs were applicable. Perhaps if it was the Bulls they would just give the player to the crowd and hope the human sacrifice would please the b-ball gods.

Wow, the NBA is going to have a hell of a time sorting this mess out.
When Artest got hit with the bottle, he and the Pacers should have walked off the court immediately. Artest is obviously not a calm guy though and he went over the line in going into the stands and attacking the fans. He should be punished, but anything over 10 games would be too much although that's what I expect given his reputation.
After that, I don't think the rest of the Pacers who joined in should be judged too harshly since it was a melee at that point and they were just trying to protect each other for the most part.
Also, I think the fans should be ashamed. I don't know if alcohol played a role or if it was pure stupidity, but it needs to stop. Seeing the video of kids crying in the stands made me realize who the true victims are here.

Ben Wallace compeletely overreacted to the foul and should be suspended for a few games.

Ron Artest and Steven Jackson should get at least 10 games for going into the stands and fighting.

A player has no business being in the stands and fans have no business being on the court. Any fan who was on the court and got popped had it coming.

At least now the NBA has a real rivalry.

Well first off I'm a huge Pacers fan. That being said, I'm pretty embarassed by the actions of Artest, O'Neal and Jackson.

However, I can completely understand why. That doesn't make it right obviously, but the Pistons fans where completely out of line. And where the hell was security?

--jaded

This is just more tell-tale evidence that the entire sports world is getting out of hand - the only thing capable of surmounting the attitudes of most of these "athletes" are their paychecks. As the ones who "make the game worth playing" and make it possible to do so, hitting a fan under any circumstance other than self defense deserves nothing less than a beheading and that's exactly what these "athletes" deserve.

If I were running the ship these guys would no longer have jobs and they'd be fined to the point that they'd have to pawn their grandmother's gold teeth.

Stevo22, if you are truely demanding Artest get banned, then I demand Ben Wallace get banned, because he was the ultimate start of it all when he came after Artest.

And anyone in that same situation of having taunts shouted, followed by a FULL CUP OF BEER thrown at your FACE would have acted exactly as Artest acted.

I would accept suspensions for Artest and Jackson, although I believe they did absolutely nothing truely wrong. But Ben Wallace needs to be suspended at least as long, Detroit needs to have games forfeited due to the actions of the fans, and a very large number of those fans need to go to prison.

But fans are allowed to assualt players?

I dont want to hear these fans whining about getting hit.

If you taunt, insult, pelt a player, and get hit back... GOOD, you just got what you were asking for. Anyone has the right to defend themselves, NBA players included,,,

i got sick to my stomach listening to the lame ESPN commentary on the link Hanxter provided. how many times can you scapegoat the fans in one sequence? the players were clearly out of control before the fans got involved. and how do you think that media would treat you if a player threw a water bottle at you from the bench and you came down swinging? you'd be banned from the arena for life. i think the players lose track of the fact that all they can do is play a game well. the media loses track that all they do is talk about a bunch of people playing a game. beyond that, many of them aren't qualified to do anything but bag my groceries. their money, power, and prestige go out the window when the working stiff stops paying 70 dollars for a replica jersey and 125 bucks for decent seats.

i'd like to see the NBA take a hard look at the type of people that are employed throughout their league. they've either got to cut down hard on this stuff or face the fact that they've let the game become a circus.

Once again...so the fans should be allowed to assualt players?

The problem was on the court and calming down when the beer was thrown at Artest. Fans then came ONTO THE COURT after players, and threw stuff as they were walking back to the locker rooms, even at uninvolved players. It IS the fans fault.

I got into a big arguement with my friends over this.

No doubt players like Artest and Jackson were at least somewhat at fault for charging into the stands, but I personally don't blame them.

Fans on the floor is another thing. I have never laughed so hard in all my life when I saw Artest and O'Neal steal on those two fat sons of bitches who walked onto the court like they were going to do something. I'd say those guys got off light, they should've been torn limb from fucking limb, fans should not be allowed on the court like that.

of course the fans shouldn't be allowed to assault players. do you really think anyone is suggesting that?

my point is that no where but the NBA (with the possible exception of the Vibe awards :) ) is running up to someone and punching them out an acceptable response to getting hit with a plastic cup filled with beer. both you and i would get thrown IN JAIL for acting like that in a sports arena... yet the players receive empathy from the media (at least the ESPN commentators anyway) because the fan's usual annoying behavior justifies such an outrageous response.

well, i say "tough titties" to our dear mister artest. enduring jeering and the occassional sailing beer cup is just part of getting paid millions to play a game. they have no problem getting a paycheck that benefits from the NBA's rabid atmosphere yet go out of control when the situation crosses from their bank account into a personal inconvenience. so you got hit w/a cup of beer from one of your patrons... suck it up.

No, WE would go with self-defense and have no problems.

That is exactly what it was.

Ben Wallace overreacted, yes. But what he did was still on the court of play. He should be punnished for it.

If Artest did not go into the stands, none of this would have happened. The players have to be above the fans in such situations, and Artest acting like nothing more than a highschool punk deserves nothing more than to be banned from the sport. Think about what would have happened had Artest only stood up and let his teammates hold him back while the offending beer thrower is pointed out and escorted out of the stands. There is NO excuse for what Artest did. Ban his punk-ass from basketball.

And claiming self-defense is complete bullshit. The beer was already thrown. no fan came onto the court to attack a player until AFTER Artest went into the stands to attack random fans. You make it sound as if beer started raining from the stands and fans flooded the court to attack the Pacers. You know thats not how it happened. If Artest never entered the stands none of this would have happened.

Wonder if the networks will see any fines for this? People get their panties in a bunch about a white woman in a towel, but all out brawls are acceptable behavior and are ok to be televised? Why, because it's 'entertainment'?

Come on. get real. How can you even compare the two? This riot was not a planned publicity stunt. It was a random act of chaos. What are the camera men supposed to do? Turn off their cameras? What is the producer supposed to do? Cut to a commercial? I'm not even going to get dragged into the MNF fiasco, but comparing the two is absurd.

Me too and I also have Big Ben and Tinsley. What a bunch of morons.

What possesses a dipshit like Artest to track down and pummel a guy who threw a plastic cup at him is beyond stupid. I've been hit with cups, sneakers, nachos, hockey pucks and other objects at sporting events and I've managed to keep my cool and not attack an entire stadium to get after one guy who I think threw something at me. Artest is the biggest moron in NBA since the glory days of Dennis Rodman; ironic he's where Rodman's #91.

There are so many things wrong with this.
1) Just because you would have acted the same way as Artest did, DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!! He will get suspended, and he SHOULD get suspended. And his suspension will be incredibly lengthy, as it should be. He will probably get sued by the fan that he hit first, because, as mentioned before, that was NOT the guy who threw the beer. That is assault, any way you slice it, and I have a feeling that Artest is going to wish he had picked the correct guy. (By the way, the guy who DID throw the beer was subsequently punched out by Jermaine O'Neal). As hard as it might be, as much against your nature as it must be, you absolutely have to keep yourself from going up in the stands. Artest and his teammates made a choice. It was a choice that, granted, most of us (including me) would probably make, but again...it DOESN'T MAKE IT THE RIGHT CHOICE! The fan who threw the beer got what he deserved, and Artest will soon get what he deserves (lawsuit, suspension, etc.).

2) Anyone who watched the entire game knows that Artest had no real reason for fouling Wallace on the play. He did not make any kind of play on the ball until Wallace started the layup, so it was a cheap shot. And, if you look at the tape, Artest completely expected to get shoved by Wallace and got precisely the reaction he wanted. Again, Wallace definitely shares the blame of the situation and deserves the suspension that he will inevitably get, but no one can honestly say (in an unbiased manner) that Wallace was completely at fault. Artest was completely goading him by hitting him the way he did, and Artest got the shove in the face that he richly deserved. Wallace will (and should) get suspended, but Artest's suspension will (and should) be just as long, because it was Artest who truly started this completely unnecessary situation.

3) If you believe Stephen Jackson did absolutely nothing wrong, then I believe you did not watch the tape carefully enough. He tried absolutely everything he could to incite something, instead of doing what he should have done and playing a role in calming things down (like just about everyone else was trying to do.) He started going after people like Lindsey Hunter who had nothing at all to do with what was going on, and his despicable actions were even mentioned by the announcers before the really rough stuff started happening. I ask you, again, to watch the tape more closely before making your sanctimonious assertions of blame.


4) The Pistons need to have games forfeited because of the actions of 50 or so fans out of 22,076? Absolutely ridiculous. The arena was two-thirds empty because the game was out of reach, so to blame the majority of Pistons fans for the actions of an idiotic few is ludicrous. To punish the Pistons team for those same actions of those idiotic few is equally as ludicrous. I'll say it again, this could truly happen almost anywhere, especially when someone as provocative and hot-headed as Ron Artest is concerned.


No one is absolved of blame in this situation. Wallace, Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, Stephen Jackson, the moron that threw the initial beer, the two chubby guys who got what they deserved, the media for promoting a thug like Artest, the incredibly horrible security at the Palace: all of these share the blame. Everyone is at fault here, and consequences will, and should be dire.

The hypocrasy from some people saying "artest is a pro athlete, he's paid to take abuse from fans! he's to blame!" , and then turning around and saying "there was no need for artest to foul wallace! you can't blame big ben for shoving artest after that unneccesary foul! "

is hilarious.

The first time I watched the replay of it, I thought Artest and Jackson were suspended for the length of the season. After watching ESPN disect in every possible way, my opinion changed a bit.

I'm not going into who should get suspended/fined/arrested. The NBA doesn't care about my opinion, so what's the point?

Artest may have over reacted but even that is a tough decision considering he was trying to calm down after the initial fight. I cant say I wouldn't do the same. I think the fans got out of hand after Artest went after the first guy. Some guy who was trying to hold Artest back just started punching him in the back of the head, then Jackson comes to Artest's aid to get punched in the back of the head by some huge black guy.

The shit on the floor, I just cant see how that was allowed to happen at all. Some guy trying to start shit on the floor deserves to get punched, and Artest did just that. Fair enough. I cant see why O'Neal would punch some other guy the way he did though. He flew in from off camera and laid that guy out. From what I saw it didn't look like that guy was starting anything, but I cant say for sure, as I wasn't there.

I cant agree with anyone saying Wallace should be suspended or anything else. That fight was over by the time the cup was thrown, and it isn't like Wallace told anyone to throw anything.

Anyone got a link where I don't have to download some exe player thing?

Well Artest, O'Neal, Jackson and Wallace have been suspended "indefinitely".
There goes the Pacers season.

Linky

--jaded

Completely unbelievable, on all ends!

I'd hardly say this is the end of the Pacers season.

Artest started the whole thing, from the initial stupidly flagrant foul, to being the first one in the stands. I thought Wallace was really going to tear into him, he looked PISSED. Why they gave Wallace an indefinite suspension for only pushing Artest is beyond me...makes no sense. He pushed him, big deal. This kind of crap is best forgotten - just get all these guys (who all happen to be great players, not no-name journeymen) back playing ASAP. Everybody knows its pro sports, yes there's a double standard, yes people would have gone to jail if it happened in a bar, but its the NBA. Don't go screwing up any teams seasons by suspending their best players. Doesn't this happen in hockey like every month or so anyway??

I think Wallace should get about five games for going after Artest's face/head, and then:
-refusing to calm down,
-refusing to leave the court in a timely manner (if ejected at that time)
-escalating the incident by throwing a towel at a idle Artest.

Artest should only get suspended for going into the stands and putting his hands on a defenseless person. I say about 5 games. Hitting that guy on the floor should go unpunished, we dont have audio or tape on what led up to the guy and his friend coming onto the floor towards Artest.

I know Jackson will get suspended, but I dont think he should I have heard that he didnt go into the stands as a peacemaker, instead as a brawler. At this point though, Artest was already yoked up by another fan and surrounded by more. Jackson went to help his teamate as far I am concerned. I play basketball, I would do the same thing for a teamate.
(On the floor, Jackson did the same as Lindsey Hunter accept with less body language. He also didn't push as many guys as Rasheed did.)

Oneal should probably get about 5 games for charging at that guy who didnt appear to pose a threat at the time.

I'm not into sports at all... but that was goddamn AWESOME.

I don't care what anyone says, it was good: far from a "disgrace" as people are calling it. I applaud all those involved!

If sports was like that more often, I'd watch and be all into it.

I think they should get a slap on the wrist... and then a rematch on THEIR turf! :thumbsup:

If they're suspended for the rest of the year it is. Remember, Latrell got 68 games for choking a coach. Even if they are out long enough for them to lose a lot of games... without those three, they might barely make the playoffs if at all. Injuries and losing your best two players will have a HUGE impact, no matter how deep.

As commish David Stern said, there is NO reason for players to go into the stands! Ron Artest knew what he was doing, and I think the Pacers were taking out their frustrations for losing the Eastern Conference Finals last year. He got hit in the chest with a cup, big freakin deal. That is NO reason to assault fans.

Ben Wallace overreacted to the foul, but he should have been ejected and suspended 1 - 5 games. But to be suspended indefinitely? Out of control fans and Artest, Jackson, and O'neal were out of line in this.

There needs to be swift and harsh punishment for ANYONE who goes into the stands. LET LAW ENFORCEMENT HANDLE THE FANS!

Im thinking this way tho: even if they are suspended for the rest of the year, it would only be for the rest of the regular season. The pacers are deep enough, and the east is weak enough, that they can still get into the playoffs without those guys, albeit a 7th or 8th seed. As long as they get to the playoffs..well..I mean the pacers are one of the best teams in the league, plus artest and o'neal and co would come back BANGIN in the playoffs. theyd be pissed

re
 

European soccer fans are watching all this commotion and saying to themselves, "you should come to a Soccer game here".

You can Literally get killed for cheering the wrong team!

The two fans that Artest and Jermaine O'Neal punched on the court deserved what they got.

From what I have seen, read and heard, there is no excuse for a player to EVER go into the stands unless physically life or death jeopardy, and even then it would be smart just to go to the lockerroom..

Having a soda cup thrown at you is nothing. Someone saying that throwing a cup at an athlete gives that athlete the right to go into the stands and start kicking the fans asses is something I can't understand at all.

Hell, when I was a kid I remember in Pittsburgh people literally throwing batteries at Dave Parker. He didn't charge the stands.

When you buy a ticket you have the right to sit there and say whatever you want about an athlete. I have always believed that it relieves stress and allows people an outlet to say something about high priced pussies who can't take a little name calling, that is their job. If they are in a bar or regular people that's one thing but as a celebrity and athlete that comes with the territory always has always will.

Should the guy have thrown the soda? No, and he should have been found and arrested. Instead, there are fans that are going to become very rich because they have the right to sue big time. Especially that first guy who didn't do anything.

I think with the baseball incidents that have happened recently and other sports.... serves as a warning. I think there are fans that are getting tired of over paid crybabies in sports that care nothing about the fans and unfortunately until these players recognize the fans things will get worse.

I'm in Metro Detroit, so this melee is a treat for the media here at the end of sweeps period.

Anywho, watching the 11pm news earlier tonight, the latest poop is a 30 game suspension for Artest, 20 game suspensions for the other two Pacers guys, and a 5 game suspension for Wallace.

BTW, the Pacers game today, combined with suspensions and injuries, left 6 healthy players to go.

Sadly enough, trash-talking and disrespectfulness is all a part of the game. I will admit, however, that going as far as throwing something at the player is too much - still, Artest HAD NO RIGHT to jump into the stands and GO AFTER THE WRONG GUY. Plus, if you watch the video carefully, Artest is a dumbass and goes after the guy WITH A DRINK IN HIS HAND! (I LIKE CAPS!)

Here's how things went, in my opinion:

-Artest fouls Wallace
-Wallace shoves Artest
-Short hell breaks out, but order is more-or-less restored...
-Artest lies down on judges table and lies down on the table like he owns the place
-This prevokes ONE Pistons fan to throw a beer at Artest (According to Local 4 Detroit here, the guy actually came down from an above section to throw the beer... however he didn't get hit. If he did get hit, he would've deserved whatever he got)
-Artest becomes infuriated, runs up the stands to the general area where the beer was thrown from, trys to find the guy who threw it.
-Jackson runs after Artest, first appearing to stop him, but instead attacks at random
-Two fat guys in Pistons jerseys, seeing that all hell is breaking loose, run down into the court (is there proof that these guys came down from the stands?)
-Prevoked by Artest's horrible reaction to everything in the stands, Pistons fans become angry and begin throwing more shit into the general Pacers area (yes, including a chair)
-Artest and Jackson punch the two fat guys (one of which left the Palace in an ambulence)
-Artest is taken down the tunnel and into the locker room... however something happened in the tunnel that wasn't on a camera (?)

...and less than 24 hours later, "ArrestArtest.com" appears, and "Detroit Fans Suck" hats appear at the Pacers arena

Who's to blame? At the bottom of the list, Wallace and Palace Security. At the top of the list, 1) Artest, and 2) Detroit fans. Although if you ask me (and I've only watched the videos tonight, didn't watch the game, and I'm not into sports much), the original only fan to blame was the first guy that threw the beer. (Local 4 Detroit 11pm's news started today with a "Who is this fan?", pointing out who really did throw the beer initially.)

I'm done ranting... I'm sure someone will prove this all wrong, but this is the highlight of my weekend.

Edit: BTW, I'm happy everyone is a professional on Detroit. I know I'm not a professional, but we're not all the riot-enducing, building-burning people that everyone has made us out to be. (side rant, not necessarily people here on TFP)

I though it was pretty amazing that Pacers only lost by 3 to Orlando only dressing six players :)

But yeah I agree with suspensions, but I also think the Detroit fans should be punished as well. And that fat fuck who ran onto the court got exactly what he deserved...twice :D

--jaded

The fat fuck in the Pistons jersey who ran onto the court was looking for some millionnaires to hit him so that he could sue - and he ended up bagging two of richest of them.

Artest and O'Neal should be banned for just being plain fucking stupid. And I hope the fat fuck inthe Pistons jersey takes them to the cleaners.

Sad sight all around but along with suspensions and fines (for players and fans) who ever runs security for the Pistons should be fired to. Where the hell was the security. The lack thereof is worse than what happened

For those who put the blame on the players, I think you're missing or not considering a lot of info. Look, everything that went on was completely human. I think those who expect others to act beyond or above the realm of basic human emotion are far too self-illusioned about people. None of us are budhist monks, we have survival instincts. When we feel threatened, we will attack.

Of course the NBA is not gonna consider these points. Not because they expect the players to be calm, docile sheep, but because an example has to be made. The league has to show that it has dignity.

With all that said, I feel like Artest should be banned for life. That's my personal opinion. A hell of a player, but a major nuisance.

Here's a question.

Say you are sitting in a bar with your buddies, and you get into an argument with another patron. He is a regular, and has a lot of friends there. He attacks you, but you back off while his friends are egging everything on. Suddenly, out of nowhere a cup of beer comes flying and hits you in the face.

What would you do?

A lot of people will say that they would turn and walk out, but I would be sure that in most people it is a 50/50 chance that you would go after the guy who threw it instead.

Now, after hearing all sorts of opinions on this, seeing it again and again and again, and thinking about it, here's what I think.

1) Artest is more in the wrong then I first thought, but not 30 games worth. I would fine and suspend him though.

2) Wallace still needs much more then a five game suspention, but less then what Artest gets, since he was the ultimate start of it all.

3) Stephen Jackson should get the most severe penalty, since he has no excuse. He went in and started swinging. O'Neal should get less, because he did try to break the fight up in the stands, and the fan on the court doesn't get any sympathy.

4) The two guys who came onto the court have no legal recourse. They had no reason to go out there other then for neferious reasons, and got whatever they deserved.

5) There still needs to be MAJOR sanctions against the Pistons fans to show that throwing things will NOT be tolerated, as well as coming onto the court after players. Personally, I would make the Pistons forfeit their remaining home game against the Pacers, that way the fans know how their actions can have consequences. This is in addition to any criminal prosecutions.

The NBA needs to make a statement.

Banned for life? Artest is no worse the Sprewell, or Rodman in his days. Now, this is on another level, but banned for life? I woulden't go that far. However, banned for the season, while I may not agree with such a suspension, woulden't be too far fetched. It's entirely possibly. Matter in fact, I woulden't doubt Artest gets suspended for the season.

I don't find what Wallace did all that bad. Shaq a few years ago took a swing at Brad Miller and missed, benches cleared, all he got was 3 games and 10 grand. Because Wallace pushed him and the benches cleared, has nothing to do with Artest laying on the scores table and cups start flying, and then all hell breaks loose. Wallace had nothing to do with it after the shove and the benches cleared. Overeaction to the foul or not, he had nothing to do with the fan interaction. You can't punish Wallace based on Artests and O'Neals retaliation on a bunch of crazy fuckin fans. If all that happend was the shove and bench clearing, with no fans, does Wallace still derserve such a harsh suspension? I didn't think so.

It's everyones fault involved. The Pacers players involved took it to another level by beating fans. Wrong, or right, the NBA does need to make a statement, and all of these players, deserve whatever they get. However, in no way does this justify a life-long banning. It's not drugs, or a killing, it's a fight. Shit happens.

Get real. Your example is nothing like what actually went on. We're not talking about people in a bar. We're talking about "professional" athletes. What if your doctor did shit like that? I damn sure would find a new one before my next check-up.

To the people that think the fans are responsible, do me a favor and let someone kick you in the nuts 10-20 times. Perhaps they started the feud so to speak, but they did not ignite it. Fans are shitty everywhere. I went to a few college football games and in my experience, the fans were much worse than most sporting events. A few times I had beer thrown onto me by some drunk dumbass that decides it would be fun to toss his liquor into the stands. Did I punch the guy out? No. Do you know why? Because I would go to jail.

It seems like when you are making around 5 millions dollars or more(every player in this Pacer-Piston fued was), you could shut the fuck up and try to handle to situation appropriately. I wouldn't think that someone would be stupid enough to deck someone on television like that. I guess I was wrong.

Players are not supposed to take abuse, but they are not suppose to instigate more problems as well. It wasn't right for the guy to throw ice at him. I'm sure a number of the fans are drunk or low class shit heads. Maybe both. What do you expect? Like Artest, I would have been pissed, but I wouldn't deck someone because of it.

On a side note, for Artest or Jermaine O'neal's (close to 15million a year) salary, you can throw ice at me all you want.

I blame Wallace because he had no reason to go after Artest. It got the teams riled up and the fans riled up so that when Artest lay down on the table the fans started chucking, and the players got pissed. If he had kept his cool none of it would have happened at all.

I think that there is plenty of blame to spread all around.
Ben Wallace completely overeacted to the foul,
Ron Artest decided to take matters into his own hands which I believe is completely unacceptable. He didn't know who to hit, so he decided to go after whoever he could get his hands on. What if there was a small child in the third row? What if the kid had gotten injured in the scuffle?
Jermaine O'neil and Jackson were trying to protect their own, but they made it worse rather than stopping the violence.
The fans were completely out of control.
Each party uniquely contributed to the violence and I believe they all should be held accountable for their actions.
This seems to be a growing trend in sports. Remember when Carl Everett was hit by a cell phone thrown by a fan? Remember when the Yankees bullpen got in a fight with some fans during a game? And now this. We've always had such a luxury in sports to go watch teams compete and be close to the action. Parents used to be able to take their kids to sporting venues enjoy the game and not worry about their own well-being. This may be changing.

Here we go folks, the verdicts are in (courtesy ESPN):

Ron Artest: suspended for remainder of season
Stephen Jackson: 30 games
Jermaine O'Neal: 25 games
Anthony Johnson: 5 games
Reggie Miller: 1 game

Ben Wallace: 6 games
Elden Campbell: 1 game
Chauncey Billups: 1 game
Derrick Coleman: 1 game

Maybe a little harsher than expected, but probably justified. O'Neal's 25 games suspension may be the biggest surprise, given it seemed as if his activity was only on the court.

I think O'Neal should have gotten a few less, but not much. That fan was on the court, yes, but he didn't hit anyone and didn't even taunt O'Neal. That punch was killer though, phew. He MUST be a street fighter fan.

And possibly my fantasy season. Artest was killer up until his freak-out. Plastic cups hurt and anyone that throws one and hits someone should get the ever-loving shit kicked out of them. Bravo, Ron. :thumbsup:

But the problem with this outlook is the rest of the story. After you go back and start slugging around, the cops show up pronto and arrest you for assault and anything else they feel like piling on. Yes you got hit with a cup, but if they can even figure out who did it, they will most likely get no charges or just slapped on the wrist, after all it was only a cup. You, however, are up the creek without a paddle because of the fight that you threw the initial punches in. This is why yes, you may be tempted to do it, but its still not right and you know you will cause an absolute shit-storm for yourself and others if you do it.

I do agree with this, not sure about against the Pacers specifically, but there has to be some punishment against the team for the fans' actions. I know it really isn't all that fair to the team, but take a look at the situation you face. Now you've got rowdy fans from all over the country who see that those few Detroit fans managed to provoke three of the Pacers fans into significant suspensions, all by some taunts and beer throwing. Hell, it looks like a major win for fans everywhere who want to sabotage their hated rivals. There has to be a backlash against the team they love as well to balance it out and show that no, you can't get away with shit like this just to hurt the other team. Yes, arrests may do a little bit, but on the whole there will always be people who won't care about arrests as much as they care about hurting the other team, as long as their team doesn't get hurt in the process. It doesn't have to be too drastic, but they do have to forfeit some games I believe.

No, no, no. Making the team forfeit games because of people they can't control is not the way to go. You want to deter people from acting up at games? Beef up security, rescrict alchohol sales, and prosecute anyone that threw a punch heavily. No team would have had enough security to stop that kind of riot. You can't punish the team because the fans acted up. ESPECIALLY since it wasn't the fans that charged on first, but the pacers that charged the fans.

I think the suspensions are well warrantied. This is only the beginning, Artest I'm sure will get sued, or charges filed, as well as the other 2.

Well, I guess an example had to be set. Condolences to the Pacers fans anyway. To go from a Championship contender to just another team has gotta hurt. I wonder if the Pacers will keep Artest next year or trade him; the whole city, the fans, the season ticket holders, the Owner, Management, Reggie, have got to be Royally Pissed Off. It's unfortunate all the way around.

The NBA fucks up again.

Artest and Jackson should have their suspensions switched.

O'Neal should get half that, and switch THAT with Wallace.

And apparently there is no penalty to the Pistons fans as a group, which there should be to set an example.

Go Terps! Fuck the NBA!

*Goes back to watching REAL basketball*

Well, this majorly sucks if I'm an Indiana fan. Fortunately, I'm not.

The reputation that Detroit has is a bad enough penalty. Besides, on the fans' side I see only one fan at fault for labeling all Detroit fans "punks". The guy who threw the beer is the punk (who, according to Local 4 Detroit here has been positively ID'd and was supposed to turn himself in to Auburn Hills Police today... and didn't...). When players goes up into the stands and starts beating up spectators, well of course the fans will react against it.

And I've gotta agree with bawanaal on Fark.com said:
"For all the trolling asshats out there that are ripping Detroit, this could have happened in any city. Remember Cleveland throwing hundreds of beer bottles at players and refs at a Browns game a couple of years ago? The iceball throwing incidents in NY not long ago? There was rioting in Denver after the Stanley Cup. You had NASCAR fans pelting the track with debris at Tallagega this summer. There is now a dead woman in Boston for chrissakes... So look in your own backyards as well.

This is ALL on Artest. I have no idea how anyone can defend him. "

Wow! I thought the NBA was way to harsh with Artest. He did nothing at first only after being douced with beer from the crowd did he react. I also think that Ben Wallace who by my account can easily be seen as the guy who initiated this whole debacle got off way to easy when compairing his suspension to that of Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal. I can't see how the NBA could justify giving him only 6 games when the others are out for 25, 30, and the season.

Wallace had no idea that Artest would run into the stands and start a riot. I think the fines and penalties were fair, even though Jackson could've been given the season along with Artest. The emotions were up from the rivalry, and anyone watching the game realizes that Artest just went off the handle. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think Artest knew he was going to get suspended, so he could promote his rap album. Everything just kind of snowballed and got waaaaaaay out of control.

Jackson got off lightly in my opinion. He wasn't even provoked - he just went into the stands to dust some fans. He should have got at least what Artest did.

why can't the suspensions wait until after their next meeting? i wouldn't mind watching *one* game this season...

the Pacers will still make the playoffs, and no matter where they're seeded, they will be dangerous.

Please, I'm a huge pacers fan but seriously. They just lost 3 of their best players for an extended period of time (one for the season). There will be no playoffs until next year.

I'd love to be wrong on this one but I doubt it.

--jaded

If the wacko Artest doesn't go in the stands, nothing happens! Hockey players and football players get beer thrown at them all the time, what they do is get security and have the a-hole thrown out.....happens all of the time in cities other than Detroit (believe it or not). As far as Wallace being the blame, give me a fucking break, anyone who knows basketball know you don't throw a hard foul with 45 seconds left in the game when your winning by 17.

You must be forgetting when Tie Domi had a beer thrown at him while in the penalty box. The fan fell in, and Domi fought him. I forget how long he was suspended for, but it sure wasnt a whole season.

The point is Domi didn't go into the stands. The fan came to him (accidentaly or not)

I can't complain witht the suspensions, since I didn't expect anyone to be banned for life. What I like about the whole deal is the suspension without pay. That means Artest forfeits $5.5 mil, Jackson looses something like $1.4 mil and O'neil is out $4.5 mil. Ha Ha Ha, I hope it was worth it.

i think jackson got off light. to me, he was the worst one in this whole thing. i think he should have gotten a season suspension as well. i don't blalme artest for what he did but a player can never go into the stands. if there is a problem then the player should have the fan removed or arrested. it's a shame there haven't been any arrests made because, like the players, the fans need to be taught a lesson in this as well. there should be severe consequences for people throwing things or running onto the field. these actions can not be tolerated and i wish an example could have been set here.