2004 MLB Free Agent Class
 

Now that I've come out of the haze of the Red Sox World Series Championship, it occured to me that the 2004 free agent class is one of the deepest in recent memory. Here is the list of the bigger names out there:

Adrian Beltre (signed with Seattle: 5yrs/$64M)
Roger Clemens
Carl Pavano (signed with NYY: 4 yrs/$40M) :|
J.D. Drew (signed with Los Angeles: 5yrs/$55M)
Jeff Kent (signed with the Dodgers: 2yrs/$17M)
Jason Varitek (re-signed: 4yrs/$40M) :thumbsup:
Troy Glaus (signed with Arizona: 4yrs/$45M)
Pedro Martinez (signed with NYM: 4yrs/$54M) :lol:
Odalis Perez
Carlos Beltran
Nomar Garciaparra (re-signed: 1yr/$8M)
Carlos Delgado
Edgar Renteria (signed with Boston: 4yrs/$40M) :thumbsup:
Magglio Ordonez
Eric Milton (signed with Cincinnati: 3yrs/$25.5M)
Brad Radke (re-signed: 2yrs/$18M)
Richie Sexson (signed with Seattle: 4yrs/$48M)
Orlando Cabrera (signed with Anaheim: 4yrs/$32M)

Aside from the free agents, Sammy Sosa, Kevin Brown, Javier Vasquez, Randy Johnson, et al, might also be on the move.

So, any thoughts as to where some of these guys might end up? I would be absolutely shocked if Varitek left Boston or if the Yanks didn't over pay for a middle of the road starting pitcher.

No...we don't want Pedro. :thumbsup:

Nobody will be surprised if Steinbrenner takes his pick from this deep free agent class. He is expected to seriously pursue Carlos Beltran, as well as, of course, pitching. I would expect Pavano and Milton or Russ Ortiz to be on his list, not to mention trading for Randy Johnson.

You know who is going to have the best offseason of anyone? Scott Boras. According to ESPN, he represents Beltran, Beltre, Drew, Mags, Varitek, Lowe, and Kevin Millwood. Good God.

I hear a lot of things around Baltimore, especially about Carlos Delgado wanting to come here. Also rumors about Glaus willing to move to first base for a team to sign him.

There are also stories about Beltran not wanting to go to the Yankees, so we'll see on that (he'd look nice in center in OPACY, that's for sure :p).

One thing on Ordonez: supposedly Boras is not allowing any team to examine his injured knee before signing him.

You have to think the George S. is smarting from losing to the Red Sox. He is going to go shopping that is for sure, and he is sure to start with the pitching.

In a Peter Gammons' chat on Boston.com, he said that Beltran is deeply religious and would feel more comfortable in an area which suits those attributes. In other words, working for Satan and living in NYC doesn't really seem to fit his desires. I think he'll probably stay in Houston and take Kent's money to pad his own contract.

I don't understand the obsession with Pavano. I see him as somewhere between fool's gold and high risk/high reward. The guy has had exactly one good season. Why does that make him so coveted? Before this year, here are his ERA and IP:

1998 134.2 4.21
1999 104.0 5.63
2000 97.0 3.06
2001 42.2 6.33
2002 136.0 5.16
2003 201.0 4.30

Look at his record. What is there in his history that indicates he will build on this year?

Milton is another enigma to me. Sure, he went 14-6, but he had a 4.75 ERA. It was no off year for him either, he has a 4.76 CAREER ERA. The only way for a pitcher like that to win is to have a very good offensive team when he pitches.

I'd take a chance on Javier Vazquez but not Kevin Brown. Vazquez did so bad in NY that a good GM might be able to get the Yanks to pay off half of his salary for the right player.

Clement could be a nice #2 starter. He's been fairly consistant the last three years. Since people put so much stock in records, his 9-13 record might turn some teams off and drop his value. I'd love to see the DBacks make a push for him.

Russ Ortiz is also a free agent. Although he's no ace, he's a consistant #3 guy. You know what to expect from him, lots of innings and a high 3's - low 4's ERA.

JD Drew had one HELL of a career year at the perfect time. I'd love to have him on my team. He always has a high OBP (.391 career OBP!) and fairly good slg% (31HR is a bit of a fluke for him though).

Glendon Rusch also gets my interest. He had a great year but has never been good at all. If he could sign for cheap I'd take a chance.

I'm a DBacks fan and many think we need a new SS. I don't necessarily agree. Sure, there are great names like Rentaria and Nomar but those guys are out of out price range. We keep hearing about Larkin and Royce Clayton. I hope the talk radio guys are joking. I'd rather we hope Alex Cintron can rebound and hit well next year than take one of two over the hill players.

The problem with Carl Pavano is that he has an alter ego named Sidney Ponson.

Underacheiving most of their careers, with an okay year and a great year in the last two before FA.

Of course, Pavano will get WAY more then Ponson got.

Dodgers are gonna try their hardest to get Beltre back. I think he enjoyed the team chemistry last year and will return.

If beltre doesn't return you will have the same anemic offense you had a year ago. Pavano is overated. I hope Nomar goes to Yankeeville because I don't want him in chitown. Milton is way overated too, but u can count on the Yanks overbidding a ton for everybody. Varitek is solid, it would be a big blow to boston if they can't resign him.

I've heard alot of places that Beltran would love to play for new york, since his idol plays there too. Bernie basically tought Carlos what he knows about the game and he says he'd love to play alongside him.

And if it goes to a bidding war....

well nuff said.

I also heard the A's are tryign to deal one of the big three and I've been hearing that a posada/gordon/prospects deal for Hudson could be made, that is if the Yankees eat some of Jorges contract.

This deal makes absolutely no sense from the A's standpoint. Hudson is only going to make $6M next year. And for their slightly above average talent, Gordon and Posada make an obscene amount of money ($12M total in 2004). Jermaine Dye was the highest paid Athletic last year with $11.6M and the A's declined his 2005 option. Billy Beane is not going to make this deal unless he wants to destroy the A's and hand the AL pennant to the MFYs. Also, what prospects could the MFYs send in a trade that anyone would be interested in? Their farm system is bare.

The A's would do better to unload Zito (Arizona?) and keep the Hudson-Mulder duo.

I keep waiting like everyone else to see Zito put it together like he did during his cy year. I would be scared to trade him as he could win 10 games or 22 next year. wish i had his curve.

So Borass came out and said Beltran wants a 10 year deal. Any team that does that deserves the future torment that they would recieve for it.

Supposedly Manny may be on the move as well. He would look great in a Mets uniform :)

Please let someone make an offer for Sammy, so the Cubs can give a wad of dough to Beltran. Am I just dreaming?

My take on where these guys go:

Adrian Beltre: Cubs or LA

Roger Clemens: back to Houston (but maybe the surprise of the offseason and sign with.......... BOSTON)

Carl Pavano: Indians say they are going to chase Clement but I think Pavano will be more affordable

J.D. Drew: Houston or REDS

Jeff Kent: Cubs

Jason Varitek: White Sox with Omar Vizquel

Troy Glaus: Stays on WC San Francisco

Pedro Martinez: goes cheaply to Baltimore

Odalis Perez: another Cleveland possibility but Red Sox

Carlos Beltran: Rangers

Nomar Garciaparra: A's

Carlos Delgado: NY Yankees over priced

Edgar Renteria: stays with St. Louis

Magglio Ordonez: My opinion best offensive FA LA

Brad Radke: St. Louis

Percival: Cubs

Benitez: INDIANS

Clement: back to the REDS

Wickman: Orioles or retires

My take.... I might have 1 right......

I think you may be way odd, Pedro will not go cheaply, he did good in post season

According to ESPNews, Omar Vizquel signed a 3 year deal with the Giants today. More pressure for the BoSox to get off their ass and sign a solid SS.

get off there asses? did the free agent period just start on friday!

SF gave a 37 yr old Vizquel too many years ..... 3 yrs for a SS with bad knees? I love Omar but couldn't believe it when I heard about the new contract.

Either SF is stupid or this is going to be a very HUGE spending F/A off season by some teams.

I have heard Boston is looking at Barry Larkin...... I find that hard to believe.... could see Larkin going to the Indians though

I heard from ESPN that Delgado may go to the Marlins, which makes no sense because the Marlins probably can't afford him. But, they definately could use the offense.
I see Beltre staying with the Dodgers. He had one heck of a year (Good for my fantasy baseball tearm), but it was just that, one year. I think that he won't get as much as he may be worth, and he'll stay a dodger.
Pavano is a good location pitcher, but he's not lights out. It's amazing that he won 18 games with the Marlins and their offense. I see him going to the Orioles.

Anyways, I'm sure most of you have seen this, but here is ESPN's top 50 Free Agents, and their prediction as to where they are going.
ESPN Free Agents

Let's see... the Sox didn't waste any time last year when Schilling and Foulke were available and we all saw how that turned out. SS is a huge position to fill, especially with the terrifying thought of Pokey Reese taking Cabrera's place in the everyday line-up. So, yes, they need to get off their asses and get the stability back.

As a jays fan I really do like delgado but I see him as wanting the money and not caring about winning. Which is terrible since the guy has been one of the highest paid players for years so he has tons in the bank. I hope we can resign him (doubt it!) as he is a fan fav, and does loads for the community, but I think he'll end up in LA with his friend green, or in baltimore with rafi at dh.

I don't belive much that ESPN writes. If they get 10% of their predictions right they had a good year.

And the FA list expands: Al Leiter. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1923626)

The Mets didn't feel that his $10M option for next year was worth it. Screw Pavano and Radke, I'll take Pedro and Leiter as the BoSox two and three starters.

The Mets made a good choice. Leiter is too old to make that kind of money. He had a great season last year but at his age the likelyhood of him repeating it is not good. A fine #3 starter though...

Lidle signed with the Phils today. Guzman and Castilla signed with the Expos.

Lidle was not on the top 50. Guzman was predicted to stay with the Twins and Castilla was predicted to go to the Reds.

ESPN is now 0-3.

Ummmm, don't the Expos know that Castilla is the epitome of suckiness when he plays anywhere but Coors Field? I wouldn't pay him $5.00 let alone the $6.2M the Expos are now stuck with for the next two years. What a joke.

ESPN is never right, btw. Last year they picked 9 out of 50 free agent destinations correctly, with only three actually changing teams (Sheffield, Ponson and Pettitte).

Thats pretty interesting, I've never really checked up on their predictions much. I guess I assumed they knew what they were talking about. I still hope that Delgado goes to the Marlins as they predicted, they could really use the offense.

Troy Percival signed with Tigers for some stupid reason today. 2 years for $12M. Wait, I just figured out why he signed there.

Omar for 3 years 12 mill, Percival for 2 years 12 mil? Can anyone say over paying over their prime players?

It looks like another free spending year. The Indians are done, lol. Reds are probably done.

I could've seen 1yr/6mil for Percy. He has probably one solid year left before his arm falls off. The one year he'll give you will be solid though, he's money for 35 saves. It's very hard to see him go, he's from my hometown, and I'm a huge Angel fan. But, alas, it's time for K-Rod to take the closer reins, just like Percy did from Lee Smith.

Adios Guillen
 

Well Halx and Goddfather, looks like you guys got rid of some of your Angel clubhouse cancer today:

From FoxSports

I believe Maicer Izturis is the little brother of Caesar Izturis, the Dodgers' SS.

nice trade for both teams (esp the angels)

Maybe the Expos can sign Raul Mondasi, Milton (the Game) Bradley, and Albert (I SAID don't $&^@ing call me JOEY!) Belle too.

Then when it gets to midseason and the Washington fans realize that the Wizards playing baseball would be better to watch and stop coming, they can have promotions like four-way steel cage matches.

Don't forget Carl Everett and managing they can have Bob Boone.

I really don't understand what Detroit was trying to do with the Percival signing when they already picked up the option for Urbina, who is 5 or 6 years younger. Urbina did have a bit of a down year, but Percival is on the back side of his career and has had trouble staying healthy. It seems to me Detroit has a number of other needs beyond Closer. Though bullpen depth is always a plus, a decent setup man could've been had for much less I think. There are guys out there that would've come alot cheaper is your are looking to add depth in the pen -- Kline, Fox, Mercker, Medoza, etc.

Urbina is a huge question mark for next season; he is still in South America trying to get his mother released from her kidnappers. If he does come back, having a bullpen with two guys like this is not a such a bad thing. Case in point: Tom Gordon and Mariano Rivera.

Oh, I didn't realize the situation with his mother was still unresolved.

Armando Benitez, formerly of the Florida Marlins, signed with the G-Men: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1935338

This should greatly displease Halx.

Actually it should greatly PLEASE Halx, because he couldn't win a big game if he was playing in the Little League World Series.

Nomar is staying with the Cubs. $8M plus incentives for one year. A steal for the Cubs. This makes ESPN somehting like 1-7 in their predictions so far. The only one they got right was Benson staying with the Mets...

Looks like Clement will be an Angel. According to WTAM 1100AM in Cleveland Clement's agent is claiming his client has narrowed the choices to Cleveland and Anaheim.

We all know that is so the Angels will up their bid a few pennies more and Cleveland can say they couldn't afford him.

Clement IMO is better than Pavano, Radke, or Odalis Perez, and on the same plane as Benson and Milton (perhaps better), so IF the Tribe do get Matt, I think they may have landed a pretty good starter.

Speaking of the AL Central, word going around the Cleveland media is there are 2 reason Ilitch has money to spend on the Tigers and make them a contender, those reasons:

1) Money unspent on his Redwings.

2) He is building up the Tigers to sell them.

While 1 to me sounds kind of ridiculous (the NHL owners lose money if there is no season, right?) 2 sounds more believable. I do hope it is 2 and Ilitch finds a buyer fast, Dolan sees this and does the same to the Indians.

As a Phillies phan, I can confirm that Clement is certainly better than Milton. While Milton was the Phils' best pitcher this year, he had terrific run support and seemed to get rocked at least every other start. I'd gladly lose Milton for Clement, though that looks next to impossible now.

Edit: Didn't want to double post, so here's a late FA add:

The latest from the FA front has the Yankees adding Tony Womack and Jaret Wright:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1940995

You'd think that sooner or later teams would realize not to go anywhere near a pitcher that the Braves let a pitcher go.

It'll be a steal if Nomie can keep his gimpy heel healthy. This deal makes me wonder what sort of money/years Cabrera and Renteria are looking to get. I would think this leaves the Cubs searching for a SS next off-season, as well.

BTW, ESPN.com never gets anything right. Here's my not-so-bold predictions for the remaining SS: Cabrera to the Angels, Renteria stays in St. Louis, Jose Valentin and Placido Polanco both head to beantown.

LMAO

The Yankees decided to open the flood gates tonight and signed 35 year old Tony Womack to a 2-year contract (nice one, George). They're also supposedly close to signing Milton and Jaret Wright.

Also, Radke is back with the Twinkies for the next two years.

Actually seeing the Yankees signing Wright and Milton shows they are money stupid and I seriously doubt they will sign Martinez now.

Wright is NOT Yankee material, unless something in him has changed greatly, he'll more than likely end up a NY nightlife casualty. The talent that kid had when he first came to Cleveland and pissed away in the Flats.

As for Milton, again nothing in his stats or from what I have seen of him makes me think he is going to help the Yankees pass the BoSox. But we'll see.

I am very surprised at the Yankees choices. Clement and Benson were my 2 big pitchers this FA season. Of course the Yankees also went with Womack???? Is Cashman trying to sabotage the Yankees, he couldn't do a better job at it. Going after Lieber and Orlando Hernandez???? ESPN is either smoking something or King George is having his yes men sell him piles of bullshit. I'd take Odalis Perez over either of them.

Martinez I think with all his talk and selfishness, he'll be back in Boston.

Milton makes some sense, because Yankee Stadium is a little better then most places for a lefty pitcher, especially since the Yankees don't have one.

Wright, in New York, with that contract, is going to make Sidney Ponson with his contract look like Walter Johnson.

Joe Morgan at his age is probably a better option then Tony Womack at his age. Especially since Cairo was servicable for them.

What a dumb team.

The thing with the Womack signing is that for a little bit more money, they coulda had Placido Polanco who was been one of the more productive middle infielders in recent years and he isn't even 30:

2003 - .289/.352/.447/.799
2004 - .298/.345/.441/.786

I could see Milton succeeding but not 20 wins or even 15. He'll be the Jon Leiber of this team; 14 wins or less.

Wright will be the 2005 version of Jeff Weaver in pinstripes. 3 years at $21M is completely ridiculous for Wright. This is Cashman's final year -- maybe on earth.

(I'm beginning to love the Yankees' front office. There has to be a Sox fan in there somewhere.)

Me too. 21M for Wright. What a joke. The first two rules for signing free agents:

1) Don't sign a hitter that sucked, went to Colorado for a year and kicked ass. They will regress (a lot).

2) Don't sign a pitcher that sucked, went to the Braves for a year or two and 'resurrected' his career. He will regress.

The guys at Sabernomics concluded that Leo Mazzone has a 0.55-0.85 effect on a pitcher's ERA. That is one hell of an effect:

Milton is bad for a #3 starter and good for a #4 starter. Somehow (*cough* run support *cough*) he won a bunch of games last year. Sadly, he'll get paid like a #2 starter.

I think Clement was the one of the best free agent pitchers on the market this year if you consider age, IP, 2004 ERA, career ERA, likeliness to sign with a new club, and expected competition from other clubs. I wish the DBakcs would have made him their #1 FA pitcher target. Instead, they are going after Russ Ortiz (see Mazzone rant above) and will probably give him more money than Clement will sign for.

Clement's offer in Cleveland is being reported at between 21-24 million for 3 years.

He's also a very very close friend of CC Sabathia (so they report) and if he signs CC would have been a major reason he even considered us to begin with. (Got to love the way the press sometimes build up athletes.)

I see Clement (if Cleveland truly wants him coming in for 4 years and 27 million). Not bad this day and age, and for the best FA pitcher out there not named Martinez it may really help Cleveland.

Another huge and horrible contract:

Jon Leiber: 3yrs, $21M with the Phillies

Also, Al Leiter signed with the Marlins for one-year.

And my beloved Red Sox (better known as God's Team), signed Matt Mantei to a one-year, $750K contract.

At this rate, Pedro and Pavano will probably get $50M a piece. I'm amazed at the contracts these middle of the road pitchers get in this day and age.

I still don't see anything in Pavano's past that is any indicater he is a great pitcher. He had 1 ONE good year...... where are these "he's right behind Pedro in attractiveness" stats. Sounds more like a one year wonder who in contract year went out and tried.

Before I'd give him a great contract I'd want to see him string together 2-3 more seasons IN A ROW like last season. THEN I'd consider him a #1 starter.


#45 Carl Pavano Florida Marlins | Roster | Statistics | MLB Index

Age: 28
Height: 6-5
Weight: 241 lbs.
Bats: Right
Throws: Right
Pos: SP


PITCHING STATISTICS
CAREER: BATTING | PITCHING | FIELDING
Season TM G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L ERA
1998 Mon 24 23 0 0 134.2 130 70 63 18 43 83 6 9 -- 4.21
1999 Mon 19 18 1 1 104.0 117 66 65 8 35 70 6 8 -- 5.63
2000 Mon 15 15 0 0 97.0 89 40 33 8 34 64 8 4 -- 3.06
2001 Mon 8 8 0 0 42.2 59 33 30 7 16 36 1 6 -- 6.33
2002 Mon 15 14 0 0 74.1 98 55 52 14 31 51 3 8 -- 6.30
2002 Fla 22 8 0 0 61.2 76 33 26 5 14 41 3 2 -- 3.80
2002 -- 37 22 0 0 136.0 174 88 78 19 45 92 6 10 -- 5.16
2003 Fla 33 32 2 0 201.0 204 99 96 19 49 133 12 13 -- 4.30
2004 Fla 31 31 2 2 222.1 212 80 74 16 49 139 18 8 -- 3.00
Total -- 167 149 5 3 937.2 985 476 439 95 271 617 57 58 -- 4.21

Pavano's has shown a workhorse mentality the past few years. He's physically built like Schilling and Clemens and his BB/K ratio has been pretty consistent. I'd pay him in the $30M range but he scares me like Neagle and Hampton did when they got their huge contracts. Some team will take the risk. I'm guessing the Tigers will scoop up either Pavano or Lowe.

Pavano=Overrated.

I think the "yankee hate mentality" really takes some credit out of some posters posts.

Then refute it.

Steinbrenner is running the team into the ground with bad contracts and over-rated players. Jaret Wright is not worth $21M just as Kevin Brown wasn't worth the cost of dental insurance last season.

Carl Pavano: Sidney Ponson: Notice how similar their career paths are: both had several years of inconsistant potential, a decent year, and a great contract year.

Ponson got $22.5 million last year, and promptly had one of the worst first-halves of a pitcher in the last ten years (though he pitched well later in the season).

Pavano will likely get at least 4 years, $40 million.

Risky pick.

There is one glaring thing that is left out of your analysis: Ponson weighs 500 lbs. I definitely agree, however, that Sid and Carl have gone down similar career paths. Ponson fluctuating weight has to be a factor when discussing them, though. I think if Pavano is smart and goes to Boston, he could learn quite a bit from Schilling and perhaps continue the upward trend of his career. Of course, Pavano might also benefit from a vet like Mussina, if George breaks the bank.

Pavano will get a minimum of $40M and possibly more if teams get desperate.

Troy Glaus signed a 4 year, $45M contract today with the Diamondbacks. I can think of worse places to spend the next four years than beautiful and sunny Arizona.

True ... as long as you don't mind playing for a team that loses around 100 games a year. And where in the world did they find that kind of coin? I thought the reason they were going to trade Randy Johnson and not bring back Sexson was they were in such bad financial shape.

The only thing I can figure on the Polanco front is they were scared off by the Phillies offering arbitration. Of course, when have the Yankees ever worried about losing a draft pick or two?

Pavano - 241
Ponson - 266

Not a severe difference there.

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5945.jpg

6'5" and 241 lbs. = 3.13 lbs/inch

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5984.jpg

6'1" and 266 lbs. = 3.64 lbs/inch

If Ponson was Pavano's height, he would weigh 280lbs. If Pavano was Ponson's height, he would weigh 228.5 lbs. So, yes, there is a pretty large difference. Just look at the pics! Ponson is a house! ;)

The only thing about Ponson's weight is this: He's listed at 266. Having seen him pitch a couple of times late last year, either the camera adds 30 pounds or he's at least 280.

Nobody commented on that signing, but I LOVE that deal for the Red Sox. It has the potential to be the best bullpend aquisitions in the offseason. If he stays healthy (BIG if) he will be just as good as or better than Foulke.

First of all, the 110 losses was an arberation. Take a team and remove a 40HR slugger, destroy the LF'ers throwing arm (which fucks his offensive game up too), trade away one of the top CF's in the game, and then add injuries to both catchers, your 2B, two starting pitchers and replace all of those guys with AAA and AA players and see if any team can avoid that record. It was train wreck after train wreck last year. This year could be totally different.

Finding that money was no problem. We have three players under contract for 2005 (RJ-16, Gonzo-10, Webb-about 2) and lots of young pre-arbitration players that can make big contributions. That is 28M and we plan on having a payroll of about 75M.

We've tried out hardest to resign Sexson to a fair contract for both sides. We offered 3yr/30M but we tied some of the first two years' money to him staying healthy. He wouldn't take it. We did offer arbitration to Richie but I doubt he'll take it. If he did we'd have one hell of a middle of the lineup.

The only word on trading RJ came from RJ himself. He wants out and the team wants to keep him. We told him we'd try to accomidate him so we've tried to make deals. Basically we set the price so high that nobody will take it, therefore he'll probably stay which is fine with the management.

I have mixed feelings about the Glaus signing. Although we can afford him, we have somewhere around $150M in deferred salaries that we owe. There is loads of talent in the farm system (superstar types) that are going to make an impact by 2007. I would have been fine with staying in last place for two years and getting rid of the deferred money ASAP.

Wow, that's a lot of deferred money. I guess the Glaus signing just blew my mind because it looked like the kind of signing you make when you think you're just a player away from doing something big and not coming off a 100-loss season.

Of course, it doesn't take much any more for a team to go from last to first.

Hey now, there's a LOT of cameras at a baseball game :p

Seriously though, I could (and have in the past elsewhere) post a list of pitchers who are around/over Ponson's weight and pitch well. For example: Cleveland Browns offensive lineman...I mean, Cleveland Indians starting pitcher C.C Sabathia, at 6-7 290, or 3.67 ibs/inch.

Weight means very little.

You're right, we should be talking about Body Fat% versus Muscle. :D

Bastard...;)

Seriously, though, apparently the Orioles are deep in discussions for Tim Hudson, so I'm worried about that right now :)

Look at Curt Schilling and Bartolo Colon. Both have had weight issues but Curt and to a lesser extent, Colon, have not been affected by their weight. I do see the similarity between the career paths of Ponson and Pavano. Pavano would be a fine #3 starter but a team would be insane to rely on him to be their ace. I'd also be cautious of having him be my second best pitcher. Don't forget that he pitched in a pretty good pitchers park also.

He also isn't the workhorse people make him out to be. He's only hit 200 inning twice last year. And really, 200 innings isn't that great. All it means is that you didn't get hurt and were effective enought to go at least 6 innings with the occasional 7, 8 or complete game. I compare him to Miguel Batista last season. He's had his ups and downs over the years but in his contract year he put up career numbers. The only real difference is 4 years (which can be a big deal depending on your view of aging). Batista got a 3yr/13M deal. It really shows the difference between this years market adn last years market. Everybody is overpaying for sightly above average talent this year.

You know, Hudson does kinda worry me. He's not built all that well, I think he weighs like 160 or something, and I wonder if he might run into the Pedro syndrome where he can't go beyond 7 innings or 100 pitches. In fact, Pedro has him by 25 lbs. I think that could be one of the concerns/reasons why the A's are trying to unload him and not someone else like Zito.

*edit*

Jeff Kent signed with the Dodgers.

Steve Finley with the Angels and Russ Ortiz with the D-Backs also inked deals.

Pavano to Yankees; four years, $44 million.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?...mlb&id=1944227

Jeez, if they wanted Sidney Ponson THAT bad, I'm sure they could have worked out a deal with the Orioles :p

Yankees and Pavano have come to terms on a 4 year 39 million dollar contract with an option for a fifth year. Sweet.


EDIT:
It was 44 million?

As to Hudson, his former pitching coach Rick Peterson (sp?) has concerns about his delivery. Apparently as part of their pre-hab, Hudson had his delivery checked out by computer in Alabama. System said the force produced by his hips was off the charts and could lead to back problems in the future.

Take it FWIW, obviously.

Looks like Richie Sexson is escaping Arizona for the M's and, in turn, is solidifying one of the worst trades made in the history of baseball. The D-Backs gave up Spivey, Overbay, Counsel, Moeller, Capanuano, de la Rosa and cash for a couple of minor leaguers and two months of Richie Sexson.

The only thing that bugs me about Sexson leaving was his crap line about wanting to play for a winner. The M's are no more of a winner than the DBacks.

Well it looks like Seson and Delgado might both wind up with the M's
and I can't believe iy, but there is actually a realistic chance that Pedro will wind up with the MEts.
I would say at this point it is like a 90% chance he will be a met. of course until all is signed and done a 10% margin is still huge.
We will see.
Now if they were able to ditch piazza and get soem money up for Beltran that would be nice!

Honestly with Pedro as a met, there pitching staff is not really that bad.
1) Pedro
2) Glavine
3) Trachel
4) Benson
5) Zambrano

Now a lot of people may rag on both Benson ans Zambrano. but as 4th and 5th spot pitchers that is incredible! really you got to step back and say for 4th and 5th spot pitchers that is really nice.

On many teams they would be forced to be 2 and 3 pitchers. so you got to give the mets credit.

And even if Glavine and Traschel leave within 2 years, they will still have Martinez, Benson and Zambrano. that is a nice core to build around.

I dispise Boston but I am proud of the Mets if they pick up Pedro.
I mean shoot he is only 34. Even as a Hard thrower I think he can give them Mets for good years.

Also it would be rad to see him batting against the Yankees in an interleague game , can anyone say the most hit pitcher of all time.

I think for that chance alone the Yankees should help pay part of his contract. just so they can throw at him when he is batting.

I wonder if he thought about that?

If the Mets really want to make this the real deal they will go out and make ther relief pitching the strongest in all of baseball and go and make Pedro a 6 inning only pitcher.

Benson isn't a bad pitcher. In fact I truly believe he will be an ace very soon. Zambrano is young and getting better every year great k potential in both of them.

Glavine still has some life, Pedro is Pedro and you never truly know how long he'll pitch before injury, but as far as K power pitchers go he's in his prime.

The only pitcher I don't like on the Mets staff is Trachsel. I think he's overrated but as a 4th or 5th he's damn good.... as a 1, 2 or 3 SP he sucks.

I love my Indians and I love my Reds, who are far too quiet this year "LIDNER SPEND SOME FUCKING MONEY YOU HAVE A DECENT TEAM THAT CAN COMPETE, JUST GET A STARTER YA TIGHTWAD." But it does my heart good to see the Yankees take chumps like Pavano while the Mets grab up Pedro....

At best it is a solid rotation. Pedro is, of course, a legitimate ace. Depending on which Glavine shows up, they may have a real #2. But Benson (overrated), Zambrano (WAY overrated), and Trachsel are not #3s. It is solid, yes. Better than last year. But not equal to the A's, the Yanks, the Red Sox, the Cubs, and probably some other teams depending on how the rest of the winter shakes out.

blah - im behind. had something to add then lost it after reading the whole thread :)

Just update the main list with the latest signs.

There are conflicting reports this morning of where Renteria is heading: St. Louis and Boston.

Supposedly, Renteria would take $8M less to stay in St. Louis:

Bos: 4 yrs/$40M
StL: 4 yrs/$32M

If you believe the Boston Globe, it's the Sox:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...our_years_40m/

It looks official, now: http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/..._mlb&fext=.jsp

Renteria to the BoSox for $40M

how can Renteria be worth that much, just comparing caberra and Renteria's numbers they look very similar. don't know much about renteria, but why would boston give up a clutch perform for him? crazy money for a guy who it like 290 with 10 bombs.

Yeah the Renteria signing was horrible, I mean for the amount of cash. He is a good glove, but no power at all.

I stopped questioning Sox management since Theo and Co. took over. :hmm: From what I have heard, Cabrera wanted 5 or 6 years and the Sox weren't interested. I don't know what Theo was thinking giving him this much money, but Renteria was one of John Henry's boys back in the Florida days, just like Mantei.

I think this deal sets the mark, though, for the rest of the good, not superstar, free agents.

i like that mantei guy, does he not throw like 100mph? when not injuried i guess. He was a pretty good closer before and should be a nice addition. things are not looking good for my blue jays.......

Blue Jays fan? Ouch. Being in a division with the Yankees, Red Sox and Orioles is a killer. Of course, since your boys broke my heart in 93, I can't feel too sorry for you.

Man, what a weird off-season. The M's reportedly have just signed Adrian Beltre to a 5 year, $64M deal. :crazy:


Tim Hudson is a Brave. The A's received a couple of minor leaguers and OF Charlie Thomas.

:D my condolenses, although i love my jays, i am more of a fan of the game itself, i usually cheer for the underdog in any matchup outside of the jays. although i hate the yankee's not because of there spending, but more for there attitude. baltimore will never win with the fool owner running the show, and well boston, i do like alot of the players, but now that they've won it, i hope they lose since i was cheering for them most of the year after my jays when in the tank again.... i get my winning feeling from my fav hockey team (when they play!!) the red wings.

I realize the Astros are trying to save their pennies for Beltran, but why on earth would they non-tender a talent like Wade Miller? I know he had shoulder problem but with his contract valued at less than $4M, I would think the Astros would try to keep him to set-up Lidge. I guess some other team got an early Christmas present.

BTW, looks like the Dodgers wrapped up JD Drew: $55M over 5 years.

I think his shoulder must be really messed up. However, if I were a GM I'd try to get Miller to sign an incentive-laden backloaded deal with money escalators that become guaranteed once he demonstrates he's healthy (200 innings).

Well, that didn't take long: Wade Miller to the Red Sox, 1yr/$1.5 with $3M in incentives

This is could be either the steal of the FA season or just a meaningless signing.

*edit* Varitek just re-signed with the Red Sox: $4yrs/$40M. Merry X-Mas, RSN. :thumbsup:

*edit, again* Eric Milton signed with the Reds for $25.5M over 3 years