International Rugby is back my friends!
 

This saturday, New Zealand and the World Champs England will do battle on the pitch in "The House of Pain" (that's Dunedin for you non-rugby folks). The All Blacks 22 is as follows:
1.Kees Meeuws
2.Keven Mealamu
3.Carl Hayman
4.Chris Jack
5.Keith Robinson
6.Jono Gibbes
7.Richie McCaw(open-side flanker should be renamed to McCaw Flanker)
8.Xavier Rush
9.Justin Marshall
10. Carlos Spencer
11.Joe Rokocoko
12.Daniel Carter
13.Tana Umaga
14.Doug Howlett
15.Mils Muliaina
16.Andy Hore
17.Tony Woodcock
18.Jerry Collins
19.Marty Holah
20.Byron Kelleher
21.Nick Evans
22.Sam Tuitupou

From what I saw in the Probables v. Possibles match last week, the forwards there are pretty tight and they're mostly from the Possibles. The Possibles' scrums were much tighter and their lineouts were much better as well (mainly because the Probables didn't play Chris Jack). The weather forecast for Dunedin is rather grim, and very English, that's why Graham Henry gave Carlos Spencer the nod because there's going to be a lot of kicking going on and Spencer is a much better touch kicker than Mehrtens is. Make no mistake about it though, Mr. Henry is going big in the lineout, in effect, he really only has one flanker, Richie McCaw because Jono Gibbes usually plays lock and he's one tall dude. Things are looking up for the All Blacks because the Lions are without Martin Johnson or Johnny Wilkinson, the Forwards for the All Blacks are huge, the largest of any All Black side ever, and the Backs are quick, what more could you ask?

If anybody wishes to post the Poms' choices for their starting XV and reserves, go right ahead.

I have two concerns (and they concern Wellington players :D). Why move Gibbes to #6. Yes he played his entire career there, and only this season at lock... the season he gets the All Black callup.

Now, in the trial Gibbes was instrumental in the Possibles engine room which took apart the Probables scrum.

And, if that wasn't enough, you have one of the best #6s in the world (Jerry Collins) on the bench. I mean you're playing the world champions, why hold back ?

The only reason I can really think of is that Henry wants to play around with the lineout, using Gibbes as another option, and giving Collins a rest, as he he as been pretty beat-up for most of the S12.

Also, Kevin Meelamu at hooker. Now, Andrew Hore had a consistantly outstanding season at hooker. His line-out was nice and straight, and his power-running often added tries for the Hurricanes. Whereas Meelamu had absolute mares for most of the S12 and only got some form in the last two weeks of the comp, had an ok trial, and is suddenly the starting hooker. Hore had a decent trial where he scored a much needed try, and he outweighs Meelamu by 8 kgs, when you're facing the English forward pack which has probably the best scrum in the world, I reckon every kg you can get is crucial.

The backs look good, but I think Tuitupou is vastly overrated and undersized, and where are you going to play him off the bench ? In the place of the captain ? Unlikely. As 2nd five ? Only if you take out Spence and therefore the playmaker, and move Carter to first five, subbing Carter out is idiotic as you NEED a precise kicker to beat the poms. Put him at fullback ? Nick Evans is a better fullback for my money. Perhaps he is only there as injury cover ?

I'm hoping the All Blacks win, but I won't be surprised if they don't.

Yes, putting Gibbes in the lineup is the best option for having a third jumper. Something that they'll need against the English. I'd heard that the weather wasn't going to be that bad. Has this changed (this was about a day or two ago)?

The forecast is still for bad (English) weather.

To be honest, Spencer has not impressed me at all ever since he got tatooed and suffered his concussion. If the weather were going to be nicer and they were going to be doing a lot of running rugby, Mehrts would be the guy. You're closer to the action down there Spartak, so I may be judging just a little bit wrong on my next point here. The flow between Marshall and Mehrts is much better than Marshall and Spencer or even Devine and Spencer. This, I think is due to the fact that King Carlos has to deal with two people he doesn't particularly like, Justin Marshall and Dan Carter. The rest of the backs, with the exception of Tana Umaga (who gets along with everyone) are all from the Blues, and it always seems as if Carlos tries to do too much to get the ball to his buddies, at least, that's what I saw in the Probables vs. Possibles. Then Mehrts was put in and he just let the game flow and start working immediately with Dan Carter, who then offloads to either Tana, Dougie, Mils, or Joe if he's there. However, Carlos' big advantage is his touch kicking prowess and that's why Spencer got the nod; Graham Henry is preparing for a war in the lineout, believe me, he watched that Six Nations match between Ireland and England and dissected it, concluding that where you beat England is in the lineout. This is why Henry's Locks and blindside flanker are all tall guys, to give them an advantage in the lineout. As far as Andy Hore goes, his throw ins aren't as good as Mealamu, that's why Andy is wearing 16 and not 2. If the All Blacks end up with a pretty substantial lead, I'm betting that the reserves will get quite a bit of playing time. I don't know, maybe it's just my American optimism and naivete that thinks the All Blacks have a good chance at winning this upcoming test. Either way though, it should be a good matchup.

I don't think it's naivete at all. Henry has made some smart choices including the fact that the All Blacks will have one of the biggest packs they've ever had. A definite plus against the big English pack.

It will be a good match, but I'm predicting the All Blacks win by 7.

While I certainly expected New Zealand to win, I did not expect the spanking that England received. What a wonderful thing! I just hope the All Blacks don't get cocky and keep working hard.

FANTASTIC!!

Holy shit, the ABs absolutely CRUSHED the English.

The NZ forward pack dominated the English pack, which was talked up as being "better than the one at the World Cup". However I still think Hore should be there, he played well when Meelamu was in the blood bin, and Robinson was too busy trying to pick a fight than actually play rugby. Gibbes had an absolute blinder, dominating the lineout, so I'd move him to lock and put in Collins :D.

The All Blacks actually played a game with passion and (mostly) controlled emotion.

PS: The final score was 36-3 to the All Blacks, the English were held tryless.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Auckland next week. Man, I wish I could be there (I will be there in January but that certainly won't get me a rugby fix) to watch.

Spartak, I agree with you regarding Hore (and Gibbes-AWESOME!) but I'm not sure about putting Colllins in for Robinson. It's not his defense I question, it's his hands. And while King Carlos played well, his defense was pathetic. Everyone knows you go low on the tackle!

Yeah, Carlos isn't there for his defensive skills (though mind you not many 1st fives are), but I had a chuckle at his "human backpack" tecnhique. Where he would literally jump on the backs of English forwards to try and pull them down and they would carry on running down the field.

**bundy looks at how well the Blacks played against England**

**bundy looks at how average the Wallabies played against Scotland**

**bundy gets a little worried about this years tri nations**

**bundy hopes the Wallabies can get some more defensive coherence really soon**

**bundy hopes the Wallabies can come up with a new offensive move... the old pass it to Tuquiri is getting tired**

And these All Blacks are only at 40%???? Why oh why couldn't the RWC have been delayed?!!?!?! And note to all Northern Hem fans (blech); nanny nanny boo boo to you!

It sucks that Howlett will miss the next match but I still think the All Blacks will smoke the English.

I wouldn't worry too much bundy, it always seems to me that the Wallabies pick their game up several notches when playing the All Blacks. It used to be that the All Blacks would take the Wallabies all the time. Recent history, however, shows that those matches are not a given for the All Blacks. I think the Tri Nations this year will be VERY interesting.

The English were tired and deserved to lose. Big ups to the All Blacks, but watch out for a vengefull English side next time they play.

Ok, this time I'm predicting the All Blacks by 3.

I got to see the Maori play in edmonton this weekend. Great game, beat the English 26-19 in extra time. My first rugby game, too.

My Springboks have made the first few steps by dealing with an extremely competent Irish team. There is still hope!

Schalk Burger is amazing. As much as I like McCaw, Burger is giving him a run for his money. The Tri-Nations should be freaking awesome!

tonight was great.

Joe Roff - you are my hero...
Lote Tuquiri - so are you...

aw fuck it... all you great wallabies are legends... (yes, even big Dell, cos if he hadn't gone and injured himself in the warm-up, then Clyde Rathebone wouldn't have had the chance to get his hat-trick against England!)


edit: oh, and i should like to thank South Africa for Clyde and Dan Vickerman... thanks.

Damn, the Wallabies got the shit kicked out of them (not on the scoreboard mind you, getting beat by the PI's is kinda like getting beat by the United States). I'm just saying, even tho the PIs were outclassed as far as the quickball goes, they had a lot of heart and they hit pretty hard. Granted, the body slam of Gregan was out of line, but the rest of it was just good, hard hitting rugby. The All Blacks better be on their toes, but they'll have McCaw back, and that usually sets the tone and focus of the pack, so it should be interesting.

Given our injury worries thus far, I am fearing mass casualties vs PI.

And talking of the US, they almost beat France over the weekend!

I know, I almost went up to Connecticut to see that test match, apparently they were leading 21-17 at the half, I am very, very surprised and very happy, right now, we're the Americas Three seed in World Cup 07, if we beat Canada we'll move up to Americas Two, and maybe, just maybe, we'll beat Argentina *prays for act of God*. Hell, I'd be happy if we win two matches next World Cup, I might even have to shell out the bucks, buy an Eagle's jersey, and an All Blacks jersey (let's face it, USA won't be a contender for the title for at least another ten years if the game is nurtured right over here) and enjoy some good rugby across the pond.

while i think its a good idea to have the combined Pacific Islands team... Eddie Jones clearly does not.

watching 4 of his top players get thumped out of action for 6 weeks made him absolutely furious... and if he gets his way, don't expect Australia to be taking PI seriously any time soon (meaning that in the future we'll prob not play our top team).

i think thats a bit of a shame... because i think the more powerhouses in world rugby, the better. i mean, its great that Australia and New Zealand have this great rivalry going on, but it would be good to have rivalries with a few more countries (or almalgamations in the case of PI).

as for the upcoming games against NZ... well, no Gregan, Roff, Mortlock or Rathbone might mean we see some fresh new faces... as is Whitaker (finally getting a run on spot), Henjacke (sp?), Gerrard and others... maybe even a return of Chris Latham and Matt Burke... who knows...

you're right about the legal hits on the Aussies, arch, apart from that gregan smashing, they were all good, hard and legal hit ups... nasty... every time Rathbone got the ball i winced.

i'd be worried if i were him, since i think that his getting smashed every time in that game exposed his weakness... ie/ that he can only sprint straight, and not move, step and dance.

it'll be VERY interesting to watch the PI vs NZ match, since half of the PI team were probably knocked back by the AB's when they tried to play in NZ. the inherent problem with this combined P.Islands team is that the best players from the islands are still holding out for AB jerseys (and others ie/ Wallabies etc). with the right backing, this new PI team could attract players like CauCau and Vinebaka (sp?) back and they would be very fucking dangerous.

Looks like some of our boys are looking forward to facing ex-colleague Rathbone

I am very impressed with the PI team, they are a very talented team. However, they need to control themselves, because their discipline levels are teh suck. But anyways, they gave both the Aussies and the Kiwis a run for their money, let's see what they can do against the Bokkas.

And the All Blacks machine keeps rolling along, spent 80% of the time in the Wallabies own 22. Schweet.

Yep.

The territory/time in 22 stats say it all right there. If the ground was bone dry (and the referee somewhat competent) it would have been a 50 point blowout easily.

yeah, Kiwi offensive pressure was just too much in the wet last night.
i think we did pretty well on the score sheet when you consider those stats.

why are you complaining about the ref?

if there was a competent ref last night... there would have been about 5 penalties reversed... which would have made the territory/time in the 22 stats look rather different. (or maybe not judging by Larkhams shitty kicking performance last night... he had an absolute shocker!)

thats all i'll say about the ref.

bone dry ground... well, that would have been a MUCH different game... and i'm not going to speculate, because knowing both of these teams, it could go either way.

the best highlight from last night was the Hooker fight.

Cannons punch on Keven Mealamu (is that his name?) was sensational... it was old school rugby at its finest. the slow motion replay was hilarious. i don't think i've seen a cleaner, better punch thrown in international rugby... ever.

even Richard Lowe would have been proud... i know Kearns was.

The ref missed so many calls and gave so many non calls it wasn't even funny.

I don't know, I just like seeing games called down the middle infringement wise. You can't not call a knock-on and then a forward pass, which is what the ref was doing.

that was a hell of a punch

ahha

crazy thing was, the dude didnt drop down, if anyone else took that tho, they'd be floored!

was a crazy punch, see the whiplash!

ahahahah insane! :D

i have to say i was hurting for the Boks last night.

so close.

defense slipped up in the last minute.

looks like this is going to be a pretty interesting Tri Nations.

And I thought the refs in the Wallabies game was incompetent, fucking hell.

So many missed offsides, hands in the ruck, knocks on etc.

You play to the refs interpretation of the rules.

I went to the game, and it was pretty good all around. SA's defense was as impregnable as the virgin mary - you gotta be god to get through.


Thankfully we had the next best thing to god (Christian Cullen) in Doug Howlett.

The ref's interpretation of the rules? The rule for offsides at the ruck is explicitly clear, a player must be behind the heel of th farthest back foot, or else a penalty shall be conceded. How can you interpret that? That is implicitly clear, I oughta know because my coach drilled it into us to the point if we got five offsides calls we did extra laps, push-ups, etc. There's no excuse for that kind of reffing, there really isn't.

SA was impregnable because they hung out infront of the farthest back foot of their own ruck, and just waited for Carlos Spencer, Justin Marshall, or anyone really to get the ball and they were able to get there quickly, why? Because they were offsides, that's why. Even the announcers were like, wtf? That's a missed call, so is that, and that, I don't understand that call..... Oh well, at least the All Blacks got the win.

Haha, so true :thumbsup:

As happy as I am to see the AB's win, I have to give credit to the Boks. And yeah, as far as I could tell, they were lining up offsides but if the ref isn't going to ping you, keep doing it. They were busted a couple of times but like Nesbo and Mexted said, they were willing to concede penalties in order to not give up any tries. I don't about you guys, but I think the Boks look pretty damn good. Let's see how they do against Australia...

I agree, I underestimated the Boks so much. I am confident they can beat Australia if they play that hard against them.

Gutted but at least we're starting to win some pride back.

I think that the fact that this Bok is side is nearly completely different from last years side, Jake White included, has a lot to do with their turnaround. The ridiculousness OFF the pitch notwithstanding...

Our admin are a fucking joke.

It is telling that of the 15 that started Sat past, not one of them started in the same fixture last year. Jake is the man.

ok, the Boks vs Wallabies game was on last saturday night... and since noone else is going to comment because it doesn't concern all the AB fanboys... :lol: ...i will.

thats one tough bokka team.
thank goodness Gregan was back and Larkham was on song. otherwise we'd have lost.
Morty had a bit of a shocker, but Tuquiri and Rathbone played well.
i'm pleased the Boks are back... it certainly makes things more interesting.

hey Doos, will Rathbone ever be allowed back to South Africa? even if its just for a family holiday?

I watched that match. And once again, I was impressed with the Springboks (too many high tackles though). And I think they'll be tougher at home.

Two you forgot to mention were Latham and Sharpe. Both of them played an outstanding match!

I'll admit to being an AB fan, but I certainly realize that NO tri-nations matches are a given, especially this year. They're going to have to play as hard, and more likely harder than their first two matches to win it.

I saw the last 5 mins and stuff.

Hmm, with a win over Aussie we retain the Tri Nations.

Awesome.

Less than nine hours to go. I figured someone would have thrown a jab or two. A good-natured one of course. I'll be honest, as an AB fan, I thinks it too close to call. Alright then, ABs by three.

I swear, if that fucking flat backline doesn't click again Henry should be man enough to put his hand up, apoligise to the players and scrap it.

After all, in the NPC and the S12 what other coaches are going to bother with it ?

wow.
apparently the Wallabies won a close one.

didn't catch the match this evening, so i'll be watching the replay tomorrow morning.

Hats off to the Wallabies. They deserved to win. I've seen Kaplan referee better than that, but no matter. You cannot win (or score for that matter) when you cannot catch the ball. And WTF was Marshall doing throwing the ball all over the place like it was a hot potato?!

Spartak, you're correct. Henry needs to adjust. The flat backline is just not working.

Marshall is TOTALLY wrong for the flat backline thing. His slow hospital floaters derail whatever little momentum the backs can create. Bring in Kelleher, I swear he throws it so hard, he can break people's fingers.

AB's had some chances towards the end but silly little ball handling errors inside the Aussie 22 effectively cost them the game.

Not without a comprehensive security detail ;) he hasn't endeared himself with his media comments.

All right Doos, it's the Boks and ABs at Ellis Park. Any predictions?

I've got two words for Graham Henry: Andrew Mehrtens. Kick out Spencer, sit his ass on the bench and put the running rugby specialist fly-half in! It's just a simple fact, Mehrts distributes the ball much better than Spencer does, prolly cuz Carlos and Dan Carter don't get along, but oh well. I'm predicting an All Blacks win this weekend because of the adjustments in the backline.

You'd be surprised Archer, but Henry has already done what you said.

Spencer has been dropped altogether.

But Carter is out with an injury, which means the vastly overrated Tuitupou (or as I like to call him Tuitwopoo) will start. I swear that undersized munchkin gets so much gametime compared to other promising youngsters (namely Nick Evans), yet produces very little.

Mehrtens is a legend. its always a telling sign when the blacks bring on Mehrtens during a match.

can't wait to see the new Boks squad play at home.

hope they can really make this tri nations interesting.

Dear God, thank you for your blessings upon us at Ellis Park. Any Kiwi's want to discuss the stuff?

Not a Kiwi, but I did watch the match, and I am an AB supporter. Wow, the Boks deserved to win, they played some pretty hardcore rugby. The All Blacks just don't seem to play with passion any more. It's like after they beat England, they thought they could walk all over anyone (totally forgetting that Australia beat the Poms by a far larger score-line). I'm just at a loss for words really. Congratulations to a very hard-working Springboks team.

We got spanked :(

Everything went wrong, Henry isn't taking responsibility... something that he should have done.

that is one heck of a tough boks squad.
this saturday should be a great game. Wallabies vs Boks.

anyone done the maths and figured out who could win the Tri Nations this year?

i think NZ has beaten Aust and SA once. Aust has beaten NZ and SA once. and SA has now beaten NZ and has also managed to score bonus points in every match...

/going to check a website

What can you say? The Boks just came to play and the ABs came to goof off. No fire, no forward momentum, no hands (again), etc., etc., etc.

There is no way you can play that way against a team like the Boks and expect to even come close to winning. I fully believe that the scoreline is very flattering to the ABs. Kudos to the Boks for smacking the ABs around and for playing a fine match.

If SA win on Sat, the wallabies can do what they like and still not win the tri nations. We have a better points difference than the others. Oz and Kiwi sit on 9 points. We have 7. So if we win and the Ozzies manage 4 tries and finish withing 7 they will get 2 BP we get 4 for the win and thus end level on 11 points BUT we have a better points differential.

If we win WITH a BP then we win outright. Sweet. However, if we lose without 2 BP then we end last.

What a great competition this year!

Let me just be the first to congratulate the Springboks on a Tri Nations well played. They played smarter and harder than the other two teams and are completely deserving of this achievement. Prost!

Good effort by the Boks! Almost every single rugby pundit wrote them off at the start of the tri-nations, but they took a young squad and beat the two best teams in the world with it.

yeah. Boks were just too good.
and well done ABs for winning the Bledisloe.
Wallabies didn't finish last in the tri nations, but they didn't win any silver.

well done Sathas. what a great tri nations season...

I thought that I was better than this but: what do you call the bone in a sheep's arse?


A Rathbone

Winnig the 3N was a good start for Jake and the Boys. I must say though, that the final game against the Wallabies was a sad affair. Poor handling, little penetration from either side's backline... very sloppy stuff. Grinding Rathbone into the Shark Tank turf was an added bonus for the Boks though.

All three Southern Hemisphere sides have got work to do. The ABs especially look very a sad side, comparing them to their predecessors over the last decade. I just have this sense that all three sides have a lot more to offer, even Aus with their aging side.

that said, hopefully the Boks can take this victory forward on their tour of Europe. A win against Ireland and then England could see us up to third in the IRB rankings, where we belong.

It was a great Tri-Nations, I would have liked it if the ABs ran away with it, but this was way more exciting. I fully believe that Graham Henry was right at the beginning of the season when he said this squad is only at 40%. Oh well, congrats to the Boks for a well fought out Championship (at least the Wallabies didn't get it). ;)

I guess that the s.loppy play was infectious. You must have seen how kak the Sharks have been this year.

Hi all, back with the end of year tests where we go up North and set some things straight.

Does England play any S. hemisphere touring team ?

I know they don't play us...

Nah, they've had enough of the S. Hemispheres, then they come back as the Lions tour for more pain. Though I really can't believe that Marshall and Mehrts aren't on the ABs, the Barbarians match just got real interesting.

I hate Marshall and I think Carter is a better kicking option.. so I'm happy with the team.

Rumours are Wellington boy Conrad Smith (he's got a law degree too you know) will play #13, with Tana playing #12.

The front row will be pretty much reserves, Anton Oliver, and some props I've heardly ever heard of.

Jono Gibbes will be out for the rest of the tour after doing something bad to his calf at training, which probably means Collins at #6, and Jack and Nor Maxwell in the locks.

I think watching the Italy game at 2am would be worth it just to see how the new guys handle themselves, I'm expecting big things from Conrad :thumbsup:

anyone see the Scotland vs Wallabies match? i missed it, but apparently Eddie Jones (the toad) wasn't happy with the reduced width of Murrayfield. but then, the toad doesn't need much to get angry these days.

is there a Lions tour coming soon? thats AWESOME. i really have to get up to date with whats going on rugby wise. i'm out of the loop.

they play us the Saturday after this. Johnny W and most of their experienced loosies are out so I'm quietly optimistic.

Bundy, there is a Lions tour sometime in 2005... I think maybe around our winter. They play 5 games in NZ, although some of them are against the NZ Maori XV :/

I'm really worried about the scrumhalf position, sure, there's talent there, but not experience. Byron Kelleher is a hothead who doesn't play like his age. I would much rather have Marshall and Mehrts in there, at least on reserves, because I don't think that there's a better scrumhalf to flyhalf channel in the world than those two. I agree, Conrad should do some great things, and you could probably put Tana anywhere and he'll kick ass. The pack is rather solid, and I'm not worried about it, I'm concerned about the backline chemistry though, I think it's been disrupted and that could spell disaster.

It's Italy, I mean COME ON!!!

Their only upside is their coach, the legendary John Kirwin.

It's France I'm worried about, they beat the Wallabies 27-14.

yeah, France is a strong squad at the moment, and i don't want to take anything away from their win, but the Wallabies haven't exactly been a tour de force in this european tour.
i wonder if they're suffering from any delayed morale damage from losing the World Cup, and not winning the Bledisloe or Tri Nations?
right now i'd rank New Zealand, South Africa, France and maybe even England (nah, not England, never England) above Australia.

France are such a scrappy team it'll be really interesting to see the Blacks take them on since they've got such a tough front row to compliment that back line.