Bondra to Senators - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

AL9045 · 02-18-2004, 01:44 PM

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

Quote:

Capitals trade Bondra, all-time leading scorer, to Senators

By JOSEPH WHITE, AP Sports Writer
February 18, 2004
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Peter Bondra choked up twice while talking about his trade to the Ottawa Senators. Not even the prospect of playing for a Stanley Cup contender could ease the trauma of a sudden goodbye after 14 years with the Washington Capitals.

``I grew up here. I grew up as a player. I grew up as a person,'' Bondra said in an emotional farewell appearance Wednesday in the Capitals locker room. ``I have to understand that I have to move on.''

Bondra became the latest victim of the Capitals' salary purge. The franchise's all-time leading scorer is heading north, giving the Senators another potent offensive threat in their drive toward the Stanley Cup playoffs.

The Capitals received prospect center Brooks Laich and a 2005 second-round pick for the fan favorite who had spent his entire NHL career in Washington.

``We're supposed to be big, tough guys, but there were a lot of tears this morning,'' general manager George McPhee said. ``We thought it was best for Peter. We worked harder to find the best place for him to play. Peter didn't want to leave. This wasn't something management and ownership wanted to do. We thought it was good for Peter and good for us.''

Unaware that something was up, Bondra showed up for practice Wednesday morning with his two children, who had the day off from school. Then Bondra noticed McPhee at the rink.

``I never see George that early,'' Bondra said. He said he then instinctively turned to his kids and said: ``This is it. This is my last day here.''

``When George told me, I was so shocked and, like, my stomach had butterflies,'' Bondra said. ``It was almost emotionally a breakdown. It was tough. ... I was here for 14 years, and all of sudden it's gone.''

The money-losing, last-place Capitals have been trying all season to trim payroll and start rebuilding. Captain Steve Konowalchuk was sent to Colorado in October, and Jaromir Jagr went to the New York Rangers last month.

Goaltender Olaf Kolzig, defenseman Sergei Gonchar or center Robert Lang could be next, but no one has represented the Capitals over the past decade like Bondra.

``When you say Washington Capitals, the first thing you think is Peter Bondra,'' Kolzig said.

Bondra said all the right things about Ottawa, but it was clear his heart had not yet accepted the trade. He will join the Senators for Thursday's home game against Atlanta, but the Slovak native's family will stay in the Washington area.

``I still don't believe it,'' Bondra said.

Ottawa moved into a first-place tie with Toronto in the Northeast Division with a 1-1 tie last night at Washington. Already the NHL's top-scoring team with 196 goals, the Senators now have added the player who trails only Brett Hull, Jagr and Brendan Shanahan in goals scored among active players since 1990.

A five-time NHL All-Star, Bondra has 21 goals and 14 assists in 54 games this season, including four game-winning goals. The Senators are now the only team in the NHL with 10 players who have scored 10 or more goals this season.

``Peter Bondra deserves a chance to compete for a Stanley Cup,'' Capitals owner Ted Leonsis said. ``I know what he means to our fan base, but allowing him the opportunity to win a Cup is important. This was a difficult trade.''

Bondra, who turned 36 this month, leaves the Capitals as the franchise's career leader in goals (472), points (825), power-play goals (137), game-winning goals (73), short-handed goals (32) and hat tricks (19). Had he finished the season with the Caps, he would have become the leader in games played, passing Calle Johansson.

``If Peter was 26, we wouldn't have done it,'' McPhee said. ``He's sort of on the back nine at 36.''

Bondra is in the third year of a four-year $18 million contract, and the final year is an option year. He will become a free agent this summer and could be re-signed by the Capitals if the Senators decide not to keep him, but Ottawa general manager John Muckler said he intends to exercise the option.

``He is not a rental,'' Muckler said.

Laich was a sixth-round pick in the 2001 draft. He has played this season with the AHL's Binghamton Senators, scoring 15 goals with 18 assists in 44 games. He made his NHL debut this season when he was called up for one game with Ottawa.

absorbentishe · 02-18-2004, 01:49 PM

Great for the Sens, but crappy for the Caps. Not sure how they could get rid of the guy, he's been through thick and thin with them. That's s tough thing to do non the less.

clifclav · 02-18-2004, 01:50 PM

Damn. That hurts. He is the Caps in my mind and it will be very odd seeing him in a Sens sweater. I hope this helps them get leaner for next year. The one thing I'm afraid they need to do is -gulp- start looking for a replacement for Olie. He is just a second too slow nowadays.

AL9045 · 02-18-2004, 01:52 PM

The Caps are fucking fire sale-ing...

Nikilidstrom · 02-18-2004, 03:46 PM

As far as fantasy league news, this is music to my ears. With Bonk injured, I had no one left playing for Ottawa, the leagues leading scorers. As far as real life news, its a shame to see a team have to sell off its franchise players. I think the only player that is identified more with his team is Yzerman with the Wings, and I know how I'd feel if Yzerman had ever been traded. It was also a big crush when Doug Weight was traded from the Oilers, especially to those bastards the Blues. Well, hopefully this trade works out for Washington as well as trading Yashin worked for the Sens, but probably not.

I was really hoping the trade was going to be Robert Lang to Detroit.

rockzilla · 02-18-2004, 08:34 PM

We don't need Bondra, we need Kolzig.
But hey, we got him for a song.

silent_jay · 02-18-2004, 09:14 PM

Goaltending won't solve all problems and neither will Bondra

Quadraton · 02-19-2004, 11:45 AM

While I think it's a good thing that Bondra is heading up here to Ottawa, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the man. I mean, he's the kind of player that every GM would sell their own mother for. Not only is he good both on and off the ice, but he's extremely dedicated to his team. This is a man who, despite playing with one of the worst teams in the NHL today, still stuck by his team. He wanted to be there throughout the rebuilding process. You can't buy that level of dedication.

Still, he's going to be an unrestricted free-agent next year, and while Ottawa has stated that they'll most likely exercise his option, if they don't, there's nothing stopping him from heading back down to Washington.

FlyinHawaiin343 · 02-19-2004, 01:33 PM

As a Caps fan I hate to see Bondra leave. However this does give him an opportunity at a Cup. This gives the Senators arguably the best offense in the leage not to mention Bondra is playoff gold. He seems on top of his game in the playoffs.

silent_jay · 02-19-2004, 02:08 PM

The Sens the best offense in the league are you serious, they have Hossa, Alfredson, and now Bondra and after that nothing.

djtestudo · 02-19-2004, 03:39 PM

This could be a hockey version of the Mike Bordick deal the Orioles pulled off in 2000. Basically, he was at the end of his contract, so they traded him to the Mets for Melvin Mora and crap. He got a chance at a WS (though he lost) and immediatly resigned with the Orioles that offseason. Mora is now the starting 3B, and led the AL in batting much of last year.

Sounds like a good plan if it's what the Caps intend to do.

rockzilla · 02-19-2004, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
The Sens the best offense in the league are you serious, they have Hossa, Alfredson, and now Bondra and after that nothing.

They have 10 guys on the roster with 10+ goals, who else in the league does right now? Hossa and Alfredsson will have 40 goal seasons, Spezza and Havlat, and now Bondra will probably end up with 30+ each, and there are 5 more guys on track to have 20 goal seasons. They also lead the league in goals, and Detroit is the only team that's close behind.
If Ottawa doesn't have the best offence in the league, you've gotta at least put them in the top 3.

silent_jay · 02-19-2004, 05:58 PM

they have 9 guys with 10+ goals unless white scored tonight I don't know and those 9 guys have played well in excess of 50 games and the majority of them have between 12-15 goals which with the amount of games played is not really that many goals. I would put the Sens in the top 5 offences in the league.

Quadraton · 02-19-2004, 06:07 PM

Okay. First game in Ottawa, first goal in the game by Ottawa, and guess who it is. It's Peter Bondra. And it was a really nice goal too. This trade is looking better and better as things go on.

FleaCircus · 02-19-2004, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nikilidstrom
I was really hoping the trade was going to be Robert Lang to Detroit.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lacroix makes a move to bring Lang to the Avs. Myabe for Skoula and/or draft picks and/or prospects. Especially if Nikolishin's injury is going to last a while.

clifclav · 02-20-2004, 12:57 PM

Any one see Bondra crying on Sportscenter. That was actually freaking sad. I really am going to miss him here. I'm going to the game on March 8 just to welcome him back.

djtestudo · 02-20-2004, 01:11 PM

I'll bet he gets one HELL of an ovation when he comes back to DC.

I'd even bet he'd try to resign with them when he becomes an FA; they should have a plan in place by then hopefully.

silent_jay · 02-20-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Quadraton
Okay. First game in Ottawa, first goal in the game by Ottawa, and guess who it is. It's Peter Bondra. And it was a really nice goal too. This trade is looking better and better as things go on.

Just because he has 1 goal in 1 game does not mean everything is going to be great there are still plenty of things to happen this season, although it is always nice to score in your first game after a trade.

Tempboy · 02-20-2004, 09:23 PM

Who do you guys think have more in terms of pure offence (when everyone's healthy).. Avs or Sens?

silent_jay · 02-20-2004, 09:41 PM

Why just these two teams, where did you come up with them or are these the best offensive on paper. there are many more deserving teams to be in this comparrison, or do you consider these two teams to have the most potent offences in the league, if this is the case i pick neither, as Ottawa has a couple of vets and then a whole lot of filler, but if i absolutely had to pick one it would be the Avs.

Sakic,Forsberg,Tanguay,Blake(injured),Hejduk,Konowalchuck,Selanne,Kariya,Foote,MorrisLiles, Skoula,Nicolishn.

even though more teams should have been in this question and I don't see where the Sens fit in, the Avs are the obvious choice, thier talent is more proven in the league and they have the play-off history to back it up.

bigbad · 02-21-2004, 04:25 AM

In the Canucks game the other night, they had Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne, and Foote on a line together, the salary of that LINE alone is probably greater than that of the Senators or the Canucks whole team, so I'd go with them having the most firepower at the moment.

As for actual numbers...

Ottawa - 3.25 goals per game
Detroit - 3.21 goals per game
Colorado - 2.92 goals per game

as of Feb 21st.

silent_jay · 02-21-2004, 06:43 AM

I highly doubt that those 5 players make up the entire Sens pay-roll, although there are some teams that it would cover there entire team, the Sens aren't one of these teams that gets by with cheap players. Those 5 players don't even come close to equalling the entire Canucks team sorry. As for the way you ended at the Sens being the most offensive team I don't get how you ended up there. Is it because you thought these 5 players were worth so much that I don't know.

FleaCircus · 02-21-2004, 11:46 AM

I'd say the Avs have more overall firepower, which might be irrelevant since Kariya and Selanne have been pretty inconsistent.

None of it matters if the team doesn't start scoring soon. The Avs were outscored 11-2 in their past three games.

bigbad · 02-21-2004, 07:34 PM

Senators have the most goals per game in the league. That means you total up the number of goals and divide by the number of games. Therefore they have the best offense. Detroit's second, Colorado's third.

And...

2002-2003 Season

5 Colorado $60.8
19 Vancouver $35.3 million
25 Ottawa $28.5 million

Colorado has over twice the payroll of Ottawa and almost twice that of Vancouver. You should check out some stats before criticizing, the facts are all out there if you only look.

silent_jay · 02-21-2004, 08:29 PM

Is this not the 03-04 season or could you not find these facts. I wasn't criticizing so chill, and don't try to explain most goals per game or any other hockey related subjects to me trust me I know what I'm talking about. The question wasn't fact based it was opinionated based so therefore your little blurb about them having the most goals per game is useless, because I was basing my answer on players skill and ability not stats.

one last question have you ever played the game or are you one of these people who are stats smart on the game, not trying to start anything but when someone tries and explains something simple to me about hockey I at least like to know if the person has actually played a game.

bigbad · 02-23-2004, 01:29 AM

This season's payrolls aren't finalized, as a trade can change the numbers (look at Washington for example, their payroll is much different now than at beginning of year), so decided to use last year's stats. And my little "blurb" wasn't useless, the question was neither fact nor opinion based, it was just a question, and stats can be proven quantitatively, while opinion is just that, an opinion, and as the saying goes, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"

And I pointed out something simple like goals per game not because I doubted you knew it, but because you said "As for the way you ended at the Sens being the most offensive team I don't get how you ended up there."

As for your last question, I played a bit when I was younger, stopped at about age 10, and play in a beer league nowadays, so I have a tiny bit of experience, not very much though. I don't see how it is relevent anyways, participating in something does not necessarily make one an expert (eg I could do a couple stock trades over the internet, that does not make me a stock market guru

).

silent_jay · 02-23-2004, 06:33 AM

so me playing for 22 years does not make me an expert on the subject of hockey, keep reading your stats my friend

Tempboy · 02-23-2004, 12:28 PM

I picked those two teams just in terms of how the team looks on paper.

Of course, if it was just ON PAPER, the Rags should be in there too, lol.

So I guess.. teams on paper that actually perform well.

silent_jay · 02-23-2004, 01:11 PM

exactly it doesn't matter how a team looks on paper the game is played on ice.

Tempboy · 02-23-2004, 05:32 PM

Yes, thank you for that great insight... I wasn't aware of that.

silent_jay · 02-23-2004, 08:52 PM

wow aren't we touchy, I was merely stating that it doesn't matter how a team looks on paper, maybe next time you should the best offence in the league, and not merely go by stats, because there are a lot more deserving teams that need to be considered.

bigbad · 02-23-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by silent_jay
so me playing for 22 years does not make me an expert on the subject of hockey, keep reading your stats my friend

Of course not, length of time at something does not equal being an expert. Most of my dad's friends have used computers for years and years, but they still need to call me in do repairs. I bet if you asked someone like Scotty Bowman he would not claim to be an expert, and no matter how much experience you have it pales in comparison to his. I'm not saying that you know nothing of the game or anything like that, just that there is so much to learn about the game, INCLUDING USING STATISTICS, that anyone who claims to be an expert has to be lying.

silent_jay · 02-23-2004, 10:44 PM

experience overrules a person who reads stats anyday, you have a fans perspective on the game whereas I see things from the players standpoint the way things really are, I have friends who are stats readrers too and we always have trouble when hockey comes to topic, but it always makes for interesting conversation, maybe calling myself an expert was a little much but there is a lot of knowledge you can learn in 22 years.

bigbad · 02-24-2004, 12:13 AM

I never meant to imply that you never learned anything, but really man, fact overrules opinion, and when you are using your experiences as a basis for your arguments thats all they are, opinions, and you shouldn't pass them off as otherwise.

silent_jay · 02-24-2004, 05:29 AM

my experiences in a game that we are talking about I have never passed my experiences off as otherwise I do see things from a players perspectrive because that's what I was, you on the other hand have no perspective to be talking about because the only experiences you have involve reading the paper and wondering why this or that happened. I'll take my experience over your reading anyday as I am positive there is nothing new that you could teach me, you can spout stats all day there are more things to hockey than stats, and you my friend have no clue.

Tempboy · 02-24-2004, 04:27 PM

Man.. your 'I played for X years so I know more than you' attitude is starting to get annoying. :P

Your OPINION is no more valid than anybody else's simply because you've played the game for a long period of time.. Have you played in the NHL before? No. I can tell you, the game at that level is almost certainly completely different than what you've experienced.

So please, no more talking down as if you're the oracle of hockey.. kthxbye.

silent_jay · 02-24-2004, 05:15 PM

well when i have someone telling me that me playing for x number of years means that i have no knowledge i have trhe right to prove myself. my opinion means more than most because I actually have played a high calibre of hockey, not that I have played for a long period. How can you tell me that the NHL is completely different have you played there no so what are you talking about. I know it is different because I have friends who play there, and they all went through the same leagues as I. I have never claimed to be the "oracle" of hockey but when I have someone who hasn't played the game telling me how things are I will speak up, I'm sorry if I have come off as arrogant but when the subject is about something I know a thing or two about I will speak up and I don't really care whether you think it is annoying or not. Good day

Tempboy · 02-24-2004, 05:21 PM

No.
I'm not annoyed at you voicing your thoughts and opinions on the subject.
I AM annoyed at the fact that you assume you know so much more about the sport than other people here simply because you've played the game at that level.
You may not have claimed you're the oracle of hockey, but from what I've read of your posts so far, it seems you feel, compared to us, you are.

silent_jay · 02-24-2004, 05:35 PM

No i don't feel i am the oracle never claimed to be but I do feel that I have more knowledge than the average person about the sport this I will not deny, yes playing at that level does give me an advantage wether you like it or not or does the kid playing Bantam have the same knowledge as the NHLer? You can't help but learn something when it is part of your life for so long, do you have any idea how much I gave up for the sport no you don't, and to have someone tell me it means nothing, and someone who sits there and reads a paper and all he can do is spout stats, knows the game in and out like I do is quite insulting, especially someone who only watches the game, at least if it was someone with experience (equal or greater) I could tolerate it. If I come off as being conceited or a prick about my hockey knowledge so be it I really don't care anymore I know more than you get over it and move on I've tried saying sorry with no effect, you go through what I went through for this game I love, I've dislocated and separated both shoulders the right one 9 times and the left one 7 I'm 26 and filled with arthritis from being smashed around the rink, my kneesd are trashed, my body is like an orchestra when I walk everything creaks and cracks when you have made that kind of sacrifice then maybe just maybe I will value your opinion until then you are some guy who thinks he knows something and doesn't really know anything.

I am still curious how my opinion is no more valid than the average person when you do something for a long period of time you get good at it unless you really suck and you learn things about the game or whatever it is you are doing. Does a mechanics opinion hold the same value as someone who has just looked under the hood of a car for the first time? I think not unless you are an idiot you will listen to the mechanic.

Well I've had enough for now I'm sure i'll have more to deal with later so keep em coming I can handle it. Good Day

Tempboy · 02-25-2004, 07:18 AM

Hah.. Okay man, whatever floats your boat.
I guess me, knowing 'nothing', won't ever amount to nearly as much as you. My apologies, your highness.

What a joke.
Your arrogance is....amusing. But not worth my time anymore.. don't even want to bother picking apart your post.

Byebye.

02-18-2004, 01:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
clifclav absolute relativist Location: D.C.	Damn. That hurts. He is the Caps in my mind and it will be very odd seeing him in a Sens sweater. I hope this helps them get leaner for next year. The one thing I'm afraid they need to do is -gulp- start looking for a replacement for Olie. He is just a second too slow nowadays. __________________ Neither rain , nor cold, nor dark of night shall.......ahh whatever, just get me a beer!

02-18-2004, 09:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Goaltending won't solve all problems and neither will Bondra __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-19-2004, 11:45 AM	#8 (permalink)
Quadraton Addict Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada	While I think it's a good thing that Bondra is heading up here to Ottawa, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the man. I mean, he's the kind of player that every GM would sell their own mother for. Not only is he good both on and off the ice, but he's extremely dedicated to his team. This is a man who, despite playing with one of the worst teams in the NHL today, still stuck by his team. He wanted to be there throughout the rebuilding process. You can't buy that level of dedication. Still, he's going to be an unrestricted free-agent next year, and while Ottawa has stated that they'll most likely exercise his option, if they don't, there's nothing stopping him from heading back down to Washington. __________________ "A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire

02-19-2004, 02:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	The Sens the best offense in the league are you serious, they have Hossa, Alfredson, and now Bondra and after that nothing. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-19-2004, 03:39 PM	#11 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	This could be a hockey version of the Mike Bordick deal the Orioles pulled off in 2000. Basically, he was at the end of his contract, so they traded him to the Mets for Melvin Mora and crap. He got a chance at a WS (though he lost) and immediatly resigned with the Orioles that offseason. Mora is now the starting 3B, and led the AL in batting much of last year. Sounds like a good plan if it's what the Caps intend to do. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

02-18-2004, 01:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
absorbentishe Boy am I horny today Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!	Great for the Sens, but crappy for the Caps. Not sure how they could get rid of the guy, he's been through thick and thin with them. That's s tough thing to do non the less.

02-18-2004, 01:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
AL9045 Addict Location: Virginia	The Caps are fucking fire sale-ing...

02-18-2004, 03:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
Nikilidstrom Stick it in your five hole! Location: Michigan, USA	As far as fantasy league news, this is music to my ears. With Bonk injured, I had no one left playing for Ottawa, the leagues leading scorers. As far as real life news, its a shame to see a team have to sell off its franchise players. I think the only player that is identified more with his team is Yzerman with the Wings, and I know how I'd feel if Yzerman had ever been traded. It was also a big crush when Doug Weight was traded from the Oilers, especially to those bastards the Blues. Well, hopefully this trade works out for Washington as well as trading Yashin worked for the Sens, but probably not. I was really hoping the trade was going to be Robert Lang to Detroit.

02-18-2004, 08:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
rockzilla Junkie Location: The Kitchen	We don't need Bondra, we need Kolzig. But hey, we got him for a song.

02-19-2004, 01:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
FlyinHawaiin343 Upright	As a Caps fan I hate to see Bondra leave. However this does give him an opportunity at a Cup. This gives the Senators arguably the best offense in the leage not to mention Bondra is playoff gold. He seems on top of his game in the playoffs.

02-19-2004, 05:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	they have 9 guys with 10+ goals unless white scored tonight I don't know and those 9 guys have played well in excess of 50 games and the majority of them have between 12-15 goals which with the amount of games played is not really that many goals. I would put the Sens in the top 5 offences in the league. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-19-2004, 06:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
Quadraton Addict Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada	Okay. First game in Ottawa, first goal in the game by Ottawa, and guess who it is. It's Peter Bondra. And it was a really nice goal too. This trade is looking better and better as things go on. __________________ "A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire

02-20-2004, 12:57 PM	#16 (permalink)
clifclav absolute relativist Location: D.C.	Any one see Bondra crying on Sportscenter. That was actually freaking sad. I really am going to miss him here. I'm going to the game on March 8 just to welcome him back. __________________ Neither rain , nor cold, nor dark of night shall.......ahh whatever, just get me a beer!

02-20-2004, 01:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	I'll bet he gets one HELL of an ovation when he comes back to DC. I'd even bet he'd try to resign with them when he becomes an FA; they should have a plan in place by then hopefully. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

02-20-2004, 09:23 PM	#19 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	Who do you guys think have more in terms of pure offence (when everyone's healthy).. Avs or Sens?

02-20-2004, 09:41 PM	#20 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Why just these two teams, where did you come up with them or are these the best offensive on paper. there are many more deserving teams to be in this comparrison, or do you consider these two teams to have the most potent offences in the league, if this is the case i pick neither, as Ottawa has a couple of vets and then a whole lot of filler, but if i absolutely had to pick one it would be the Avs. Sakic,Forsberg,Tanguay,Blake(injured),Hejduk,Konowalchuck,Selanne,Kariya,Foote,MorrisLiles, Skoula,Nicolishn. even though more teams should have been in this question and I don't see where the Sens fit in, the Avs are the obvious choice, thier talent is more proven in the league and they have the play-off history to back it up. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-21-2004, 04:25 AM	#21 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	In the Canucks game the other night, they had Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya, Selanne, and Foote on a line together, the salary of that LINE alone is probably greater than that of the Senators or the Canucks whole team, so I'd go with them having the most firepower at the moment. As for actual numbers... Ottawa - 3.25 goals per game Detroit - 3.21 goals per game Colorado - 2.92 goals per game as of Feb 21st.

02-21-2004, 06:43 AM	#22 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	I highly doubt that those 5 players make up the entire Sens pay-roll, although there are some teams that it would cover there entire team, the Sens aren't one of these teams that gets by with cheap players. Those 5 players don't even come close to equalling the entire Canucks team sorry. As for the way you ended at the Sens being the most offensive team I don't get how you ended up there. Is it because you thought these 5 players were worth so much that I don't know. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-21-2004, 11:46 AM	#23 (permalink)
FleaCircus Insane Location: Denver, CO	I'd say the Avs have more overall firepower, which might be irrelevant since Kariya and Selanne have been pretty inconsistent. None of it matters if the team doesn't start scoring soon. The Avs were outscored 11-2 in their past three games. __________________ "We must have waffles. We must all have waffles, forthwith. Oh, we must think. We must all have waffles and think, each and every one of us to the very best of his ability." -- Professor Goldthwait Higginson Dorr, Ph.D.

02-21-2004, 07:34 PM	#24 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	Senators have the most goals per game in the league. That means you total up the number of goals and divide by the number of games. Therefore they have the best offense. Detroit's second, Colorado's third. And... 2002-2003 Season 5 Colorado $60.8 19 Vancouver $35.3 million 25 Ottawa $28.5 million Colorado has over twice the payroll of Ottawa and almost twice that of Vancouver. You should check out some stats before criticizing, the facts are all out there if you only look.

02-21-2004, 08:29 PM	#25 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	Is this not the 03-04 season or could you not find these facts. I wasn't criticizing so chill, and don't try to explain most goals per game or any other hockey related subjects to me trust me I know what I'm talking about. The question wasn't fact based it was opinionated based so therefore your little blurb about them having the most goals per game is useless, because I was basing my answer on players skill and ability not stats. one last question have you ever played the game or are you one of these people who are stats smart on the game, not trying to start anything but when someone tries and explains something simple to me about hockey I at least like to know if the person has actually played a game. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-22-2004 at 06:51 PM..

02-23-2004, 01:29 AM	#26 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	This season's payrolls aren't finalized, as a trade can change the numbers (look at Washington for example, their payroll is much different now than at beginning of year), so decided to use last year's stats. And my little "blurb" wasn't useless, the question was neither fact nor opinion based, it was just a question, and stats can be proven quantitatively, while opinion is just that, an opinion, and as the saying goes, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one" And I pointed out something simple like goals per game not because I doubted you knew it, but because you said "As for the way you ended at the Sens being the most offensive team I don't get how you ended up there." As for your last question, I played a bit when I was younger, stopped at about age 10, and play in a beer league nowadays, so I have a tiny bit of experience, not very much though. I don't see how it is relevent anyways, participating in something does not necessarily make one an expert (eg I could do a couple stock trades over the internet, that does not make me a stock market guru ).

02-23-2004, 06:33 AM	#27 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	so me playing for 22 years does not make me an expert on the subject of hockey, keep reading your stats my friend __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-23-2004, 12:28 PM	#28 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	I picked those two teams just in terms of how the team looks on paper. Of course, if it was just ON PAPER, the Rags should be in there too, lol. So I guess.. teams on paper that actually perform well.

02-23-2004, 01:11 PM	#29 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	exactly it doesn't matter how a team looks on paper the game is played on ice. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-23-2004, 05:32 PM	#30 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	Yes, thank you for that great insight... I wasn't aware of that.

02-23-2004, 08:52 PM	#31 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	wow aren't we touchy, I was merely stating that it doesn't matter how a team looks on paper, maybe next time you should the best offence in the league, and not merely go by stats, because there are a lot more deserving teams that need to be considered. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-23-2004, 10:44 PM	#33 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	experience overrules a person who reads stats anyday, you have a fans perspective on the game whereas I see things from the players standpoint the way things really are, I have friends who are stats readrers too and we always have trouble when hockey comes to topic, but it always makes for interesting conversation, maybe calling myself an expert was a little much but there is a lot of knowledge you can learn in 22 years. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-24-2004, 12:13 AM	#34 (permalink)
bigbad Insane	I never meant to imply that you never learned anything, but really man, fact overrules opinion, and when you are using your experiences as a basis for your arguments thats all they are, opinions, and you shouldn't pass them off as otherwise.

02-24-2004, 05:29 AM	#35 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	my experiences in a game that we are talking about I have never passed my experiences off as otherwise I do see things from a players perspectrive because that's what I was, you on the other hand have no perspective to be talking about because the only experiences you have involve reading the paper and wondering why this or that happened. I'll take my experience over your reading anyday as I am positive there is nothing new that you could teach me, you can spout stats all day there are more things to hockey than stats, and you my friend have no clue. __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-24-2004 at 05:36 AM..

02-24-2004, 04:27 PM	#36 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	Man.. your 'I played for X years so I know more than you' attitude is starting to get annoying. :P Your OPINION is no more valid than anybody else's simply because you've played the game for a long period of time.. Have you played in the NHL before? No. I can tell you, the game at that level is almost certainly completely different than what you've experienced. So please, no more talking down as if you're the oracle of hockey.. kthxbye.

02-24-2004, 05:15 PM	#37 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	well when i have someone telling me that me playing for x number of years means that i have no knowledge i have trhe right to prove myself. my opinion means more than most because I actually have played a high calibre of hockey, not that I have played for a long period. How can you tell me that the NHL is completely different have you played there no so what are you talking about. I know it is different because I have friends who play there, and they all went through the same leagues as I. I have never claimed to be the "oracle" of hockey but when I have someone who hasn't played the game telling me how things are I will speak up, I'm sorry if I have come off as arrogant but when the subject is about something I know a thing or two about I will speak up and I don't really care whether you think it is annoying or not. Good day __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder

02-24-2004, 05:21 PM	#38 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	No. I'm not annoyed at you voicing your thoughts and opinions on the subject. I AM annoyed at the fact that you assume you know so much more about the sport than other people here simply because you've played the game at that level. You may not have claimed you're the oracle of hockey, but from what I've read of your posts so far, it seems you feel, compared to us, you are.

02-24-2004, 05:35 PM	#39 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	No i don't feel i am the oracle never claimed to be but I do feel that I have more knowledge than the average person about the sport this I will not deny, yes playing at that level does give me an advantage wether you like it or not or does the kid playing Bantam have the same knowledge as the NHLer? You can't help but learn something when it is part of your life for so long, do you have any idea how much I gave up for the sport no you don't, and to have someone tell me it means nothing, and someone who sits there and reads a paper and all he can do is spout stats, knows the game in and out like I do is quite insulting, especially someone who only watches the game, at least if it was someone with experience (equal or greater) I could tolerate it. If I come off as being conceited or a prick about my hockey knowledge so be it I really don't care anymore I know more than you get over it and move on I've tried saying sorry with no effect, you go through what I went through for this game I love, I've dislocated and separated both shoulders the right one 9 times and the left one 7 I'm 26 and filled with arthritis from being smashed around the rink, my kneesd are trashed, my body is like an orchestra when I walk everything creaks and cracks when you have made that kind of sacrifice then maybe just maybe I will value your opinion until then you are some guy who thinks he knows something and doesn't really know anything. I am still curious how my opinion is no more valid than the average person when you do something for a long period of time you get good at it unless you really suck and you learn things about the game or whatever it is you are doing. Does a mechanics opinion hold the same value as someone who has just looked under the hood of a car for the first time? I think not unless you are an idiot you will listen to the mechanic. Well I've had enough for now I'm sure i'll have more to deal with later so keep em coming I can handle it. Good Day __________________ Absence makes the heart grow fonder Last edited by silent_jay; 02-25-2004 at 12:29 AM..

02-25-2004, 07:18 AM	#40 (permalink)
Tempboy Insane Location: The Red Mile	Hah.. Okay man, whatever floats your boat. I guess me, knowing 'nothing', won't ever amount to nearly as much as you. My apologies, your highness. What a joke. Your arrogance is....amusing. But not worth my time anymore.. don't even want to bother picking apart your post. Byebye.