The problem with the NBA.. the coaches. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 01-14-2004, 04:10 PM

Ok.. here's a question..

What current NBA coach besides Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich has won a title as a coach?

Think about it.

You see... all the current coaches suck. Except Pop and PJ of course. I think Rick Adelman is close behind, but he still cant get his team to stop choking.

Anomaly_ · 01-14-2004, 04:35 PM

Well do you think the NBA was any better a few years ago when Rudy T. and Pat Riley were still coaching? Their past titles certainly weren't doing much for them. I do agree in that there are too many green, former players being hired without much coaching experience (i.e. Doc Rivers and Maurice Cheeks). Not only that, good coaches like Rick Carlisle and Paul Silas get the boot without good reason. I think if coaches like Carlisle and Silas are given some time to develop a team then we will see a new guard of championship teams (or maybe just consistent Eastern Conference champions).

Kurant · 01-14-2004, 07:06 PM

I'm not sure the coaches suck, it's just bad basketball. It really is. Selfishness, personalities are dull, and the players are bigger then the league is.

It's hard to know who's a good coach with the talent level outside the Lakers and the Spurs and Bulls in the last 15 years.

That's why the NBA is dying, Jordan was a marketing hound. The NBA markets it's players, not the game itself. I haven't watched an NBA game all year, and I won't till April. It's bad, boring, and I'm not so sure the coaches are to blame. The NBA is.

Halx · 01-14-2004, 07:16 PM

I dunno about all that Kurant.. they market the "I Love This Game" campaign pretty aggressively and just leave the individual player endorsements up to the corporations.

Zeld2.0 · 01-14-2004, 07:43 PM

I'd have to agree with Kurant on some points - the game has really deteriorated.

Most people can remember the 80's to 90's basketball era - often considered one of the golden ages - why? Because of great players and far more competition between teams.

Theres defenitely a shift now - West dominance and the titles being in the hands of a few teams in the last 5 years (the Lakers and Spurs of course).

I've been a fan of basketball for a long time but IMO its true the players are what draw fans - Jordan even playing with the shitty Wizards practically assured sell outs - hell I remember the last game Jordan played against Lakers w/ Washington was sold out months before and no other games near it were sold out at the time.

Problem is that many players these days no longer draw fans like they used to - name whatever you want, from controversy over salaries to huge egos, they're no longer the draws they once were and ever since the game has sagged imo.

People would pay to watch Jordan, Bird, Johnson, etc. - but I cant say many people would pay to watch Iverson, McGrady, etc.

LeBron is an example of a player who can sell tickets similar to Jordan and what not.

And I do want to make it a point that basketball is really like the one sport where a majority of teams can exist 30 years and still have no championships

just my take anyways

thephuse · 01-14-2004, 09:42 PM

I think the problem is that the regular season almost doesnt matter. Its a race to not be eliminated, rather than to make the playoffs... Its just not worth watching till the playoffs start.

Not to mention the complete unbalanced teams from the West to the East...

grumpyolddude · 01-14-2004, 10:12 PM

The coaches don't put the ball in the hole.... but, then, the players seem to be having a problem with that part of the game this season.
Word is that attendance is up and ratings are up, but is the product very good? Does anybody really enjoy watching games with sub-80 point scores?
There's been an errosion of fundemental skills going on for several years. The fault lies with coaches on all levels. For every LeBron or Kobe, there are 10 who should have stayed in school and learned their game and developed their skills... and their teamwork attitude.

RE: the dearth of coaches with titles, If Midhael Jordan hadn't taken a couple of years off, Houston wouldn't have interrupted Jackson's string of championships during the 90's. It takes coaches AND players to win. When Shaq and Kobe click, Phil Jackson's a genius. With Jordan and Pippen, same story. Pippen without Jordan, Jackson's an also-ran.
Tim Duncan has made Popvich's career for him. Isiah Thomas running Chuck Daley's system made the Pistons champs. Rudy T. rode Alajuwon.

I'm no sayin that the coaches DON'T suck. But the coach doesn't brick that clutch free throw, either.

Kurant · 01-14-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
I dunno about all that Kurant.. they market the "I Love This Game" campaign pretty aggressively and just leave the individual player endorsements up to the corporations.

Your right, they do, however. Basketball woulden't be basketball without the personalities and the people they market. Every Wizards game (During the Jordan time) and now every Clevelend game sells out, why? It's surely not because of good marketing. Then again, in Lebron's case, it's all about marketing. People couldn't give a shit less if the Cavs win or lose, as long as they see Lebron.

In the NFL it doesn't matter who plays, every team, every week almost every stadium sells out, because the game is marketed, and it's a well played, and refined product that's shown to the public. People come to watch football, not Randy Moss, not Ricky Williams, they come to see football. That's whats being sold.

Basketball is generally selfish play, bad attitudes, whiners and people bitching about needing more money, because they spend more money (The famous Patrick Ewing line). It's a bad product. It's bad basketball. I'd rather get run over on I-5 then watch the NBA regular season.

aswo · 01-14-2004, 11:27 PM

Although i am a big basketball fan i agree, the problem i feel lies in the media's perception of a good player and the amount of attention focused on that one "good" Player. LIke take for instance football this year Peyton Manning and Steve mcnair tied or the MVP, but everyone feels that they got there because of a team whereas in basketball there is a notion that great players are the ones who win championships, but that really isn't the case if you look back at the last dynasty's in basketball in the last 15 years you will see teams that had th marquee player, but around him where teams that were exellent. In basketball now though considering how short contracts are and how many times players are traded it is much harder to develop rivalries and matchups that draws a fans interest.

Hrothgar · 01-15-2004, 01:35 AM

It's deteriorated to 1 on 1 with 8 other guys being cleared out while the "star" from team 1 tries to break the "star" of team 2 off the dribble and shoot a 3 pointer or a double reverse dispy doo dunkaroo no look behind the back dunk. Yay!!! Not!!!

jay-g · 01-15-2004, 02:40 AM

When you have Shaq and Kobe or Timmy and the admiral, i think it shouldnt be hard to win eventually. Phil should really test his skills and see if he can build and make a sorry team good. As for other good coaches, dont know his name but the coach for the Detroit is bringing them back. I would really like to see what some of the premier colleges coaches could do. Like coach k, lute olson, or even the ex coach of georgetown, Thompson.

BigBlueWrecking · 01-15-2004, 06:19 AM

Lenny Wilkens won a title back in the day.

I think the players suck now!

sixate · 01-15-2004, 12:26 PM

I hate when people say they played better ball back in the 80's. That's bullshit. The top teams today would destroy the top teams of the 80's. The athletes are bigger and better. Period.

Just think about it. Back when Dr J was playing he was the best athlete in the game. There are at least 4 guys on every team right now who are better athletes than Dr J. Sure, it's a different style game today, but I love it.

Halx · 01-15-2004, 01:11 PM

a big contrast with the 80's is the 3 point shooting. One of the mid-80's Lakers championship teams shot a team FG% of like 53%... the highest ever. That year, they attempted about 1/4 the amount of 3 point FGs that the avg NBA team attempts today.

Higher percentage shots = higher score

BigBlueWrecking · 01-15-2004, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixate
I hate when people say they played better ball back in the 80's. That's bullshit. The top teams today would destroy the top teams of the 80's. The athletes are bigger and better. Period.

Just think about it. Back when Dr J was playing he was the best athlete in the game. There are at least 4 guys on every team right now who are better athletes than Dr J. Sure, it's a different style game today, but I love it.

The athletes are bigger and stronger and may win, but players back in the 80's and earlier were better basketball players. They could shoot better, pass better, and defend better. Now they can dunk better.

The_Dude · 01-15-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jay-g
When you have Shaq and Kobe or Timmy and the admiral, i think it shouldnt be hard to win eventually. Phil should really test his skills and see if he can build and make a sorry team good. As for other good coaches, dont know his name but the coach for the Detroit is bringing them back. I would really like to see what some of the premier colleges coaches could do. Like coach k, lute olson, or even the ex coach of georgetown, Thompson.

you mean larry brown.

he's also the coach of the US olympic team i think.

i really like the guy. he coached at kansas and won the NC and left for the NBA.

dragon2fire · 01-15-2004, 03:17 PM

yea larry brown is good coach so is paul sialis oki cant spell the cavs coach

sixate · 01-15-2004, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigBlueWrecking
The athletes are bigger and stronger and may win, but players back in the 80's and earlier were better basketball players. They could shoot better, pass better, and defend better. Now they can dunk better.

If they were that much better an 80's squad could smash a team of today. It just wouldn't happen. These players are better than you think.

Hal makes a good point. Although, I think it has more to do with the fact that team defense has gotten better. It was just easier to get better shots back then, and because shots were easy to come by it was a big mans games. Back when the Bad Boy Pistons won their rings they were the best defensive team in the league, and they allowed over 100 a game.

I'll add that Dallas is the only team who allows over 100 a game, and they're considered a weak ass team that plays no D. Times have changed. People need to get over it.

Kurant · 01-15-2004, 06:18 PM

First off, there was no Mid 90's Lakers championship team. 87 was the last time before 2000.

Second off, you can't find a guy on those old Laker and Celtic teams that coulden't shoot a 15 footer. Make the bounce pass, play basketball to play ball. It was a team game, alot less isolation, and was very popular. You can argue defense wasen't played them, but you can also argue almost every guy could knock down a 15 footer.

Today's game, while quite different, can be entertaining, but to me, it's very dull, poorly played, and just generally bad basketball. They don't shoot as well, but drive and dish better. Don't play offense as well as a team, but defend better as a team. It's changed with time...

It's faster, and to some better. I just enjoyed watching Bird, Magic and Jordan. To me, that was good basketball.

sixate · 01-15-2004, 07:11 PM

First off, I'm sure Hal meant mid 80's Lakers squad.

If an NBA player is left open at the 15 foot range the shot will go down most of the time. You put a hand in his face and the shooting percentages drop drastically. It's a fact. I can knock down a shot from 12 to 20 feet at around 60% when nobody is on me. Put some tight D and a hand in my grill and it drops down to 20%. Why? Defense! For the record. In my hoops career I shot over 55% from the field, over 40% from 3, and just over 80% from the line. That's because I didn't try to do things I wasn't capable of.

Just because the Lakers and Celtics had great shooters doesn't mean that every team was full of jump shooters. Because they weren't.

Kurant · 01-15-2004, 11:34 PM

It's pointless to argue.

Here is the bottom line, and you can have whatever opinion you want. Ask people why they don't watch the NBA - The ego's, the attitude, the selfishness, and the lack of GOOD basketball, and it's bloody boring to watch when it doesn't mean anything.

People go to see the personalities, and the players, proven very easily by the Wizards selling out practically every game Jordan played, as well as Lebron. You can't argue that, because it's a fact. People could give a shit less who wins, who loses, as long as they see Michael Jordan or Lebron play, they are happy. I really thought when ESPN started hitting the NBA big, it would rebound and start becoming a house hold thing again. It hasen't. People don't even talk about it till April.

If you want to argue that, then so be it. I can't change what you think of today's game. You can fight kicking and screaming the whole way about how good today's game is, it doesn't change the bottom line that the NBA is not as popular as it used to be, and we're discussing why, not arguing about todays game and yesterday's game.

Those are nice #'s BTW.

Halx · 01-15-2004, 11:57 PM

I did mean mid 80's.. WHOOPS

cactus_bangers · 01-19-2004, 10:47 PM

a huge problem with games is lack of excitement.....that is, lack of excitement for the average fan. defense has improved drastically, with better individual defenders on the perimeter, better help defense on the inside, overall team defense, and of course the zone. all this defense translates into poorer percentages and less shots falling, and Joe Everyfan doesnt wanna tune in to see players missing their shots.

also, the length of the season contributes to the "problem", in the same way that it does with hockey and baseball. with football, the regular season lasts around 18 games....which means that each week the game means a whole heck of a lot. basketball seasons last 82 games....and while each game does mean a lot, it just doesnt seem that way.

also, tv networks can't really air games in a way that would get fans involved. sadly, its the nature of the beast....there are 29 teams in the NBA right now (i think)....and only a fraction of the games for each team are televised on popular networks. how can anyone get interested in following the progress of a team when you only get to see a few of their games....on random days of the week....well over a week apart?

Nimbletoe · 01-20-2004, 09:54 AM

Cactus hit the nail on the head. Comparing the popularity of football to basketball is stupid. The ONLY thing they have in common is that they are both sports. Basketball teams play about 5 times as many games in not that much longer of a season, which obviously means multiple games per week. At different times, on different stations, and sometimes not even televised, ESPECIALLY if your favorite team isn't the team that plays close to you. Football is every sunday (for the most part), with all the games being televised on prime time. If each NBA team played 1 game a week, people would go to see it more, because there would be less of it. Has VERY little to do with marketing.

Bookman · 01-20-2004, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halx
Ok.. here's a question..

What current NBA coach besides Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich has won a title as a coach?

Think about it.

You see... all the current coaches suck. Except Pop and PJ of course. I think Rick Adelman is close behind, but he still cant get his team to stop choking.

Lenny Wilkens

Nimbletoe · 01-20-2004, 12:29 PM

Thats cheating, he just got hired and wasn't coaching when he posted that!

jobu · 01-23-2004, 10:43 AM

I don’t think that the coaches suck in the NBA. They wouldn’t be there if they didn’t know how to coach. The real problem lies with the players that are coming into the league. Today’s player is usually out of H.S. or has 1-2 years of playing in college. Most are now H.S. players who lack the fundamentals to play in the NBA. I heard on the radio the other day that the top 5 prospects for this years draft are all in H.S. These guys have yet to refine their skills and really learn the game of basketball. NBA coaches are not there to teach the players the fundamentals. They are there to game plan and teach the intricacies of the game. NBA coaches expect their players to come in and do things that they have never been asked or shown how to do in the past. Because of this they usually end up failing. Also, with the addition of the zone defense, there has been more of an emphasis on shooting from the outside. I think this is why there has been an influx of European players in the league. I saw a special on how they train their players in Europe. They start when these kids are very young and they are sent to “basketball schools” where they are taught the fundamentals. They learn shooting, passing, free throws, blocking out, etc. American players don’t have the fundamentals that they used. People have become enamored with the dunk. They want to make the highlight films and they usually end up focusing on the areas that get them in the spotlight as opposed to the NBA finals. The other problem I see with the coach/player relationship is respect. Before Jackson, the Lakers couldn’t get it done. Jackson stepped in and immediately Kobe and Shaq gave him the respect that a coach needs to get the job done. The only reason he got the respect was that he had one before. With players being pampered and getting millions it is very hard for them to take orders from a guy that gets paid significantly less. A coach can’t cut a player if he feels players aren’t giving their all. The other problem is that with all this money is that they have no motivation to better themselves. No matter what a coach says or does he can’t make these guys have heart. So to say that the coaching is poor in the NBA I think is an inaccurate statement. I think the quality of players in the NBA is poor.

cactus_bangers · 01-23-2004, 11:58 PM

i dont like when people fall back onto "players coming into this league arent ready" crap....true, most players coming into this league arent ready to play fantastic NBA ball. they're not supposed to. players drafted into the league are expected to be ready to LEARN how to play in the NBA, not take over teams and grab starting spots all the time - very few picks can enter the league and start at their position and excel. drafted players are supposed to take a few years before they become anything special. look at corey maggette....elton brand.....shawn marion...all players who have been in the league 5 or fewer years and are only now starting to do really well.

as for euro players, its dead on that they're taught the fundamentals....fundamentals of pure shooting and general offense. defense isnt really emphasized there, and if you took a european player and put him on the court with an NBA defense, he'd most likely get ripped up.

defense is what's killing the NBA.....so many defensive-minded teams out there, with every team getting so efficient at running a good defensive set, reading the offense, going over screens, collapsing on great offensive players, forcing turnovers and bad shots. people think so much stock is placed in players making that dunk....players take just as much pride in swatting down a jumper or forcing their man to throw up a horrible shot. teams and coaches see that defense wins championships.....sucks that viewers wanna see points first, rings later.

01-14-2004, 04:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	The problem with the NBA.. the coaches. Ok.. here's a question.. What current NBA coach besides Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich has won a title as a coach? Think about it. You see... all the current coaches suck. Except Pop and PJ of course. I think Rick Adelman is close behind, but he still cant get his team to stop choking. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

01-14-2004, 07:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I dunno about all that Kurant.. they market the "I Love This Game" campaign pretty aggressively and just leave the individual player endorsements up to the corporations. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

01-14-2004, 09:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
thephuse Psycho Location: NY	I think the problem is that the regular season almost doesnt matter. Its a race to not be eliminated, rather than to make the playoffs... Its just not worth watching till the playoffs start. Not to mention the complete unbalanced teams from the West to the East... __________________ b000yahed up your w000pah!! Joygasm~!!

01-14-2004, 10:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	The coaches don't put the ball in the hole.... but, then, the players seem to be having a problem with that part of the game this season. Word is that attendance is up and ratings are up, but is the product very good? Does anybody really enjoy watching games with sub-80 point scores? There's been an errosion of fundemental skills going on for several years. The fault lies with coaches on all levels. For every LeBron or Kobe, there are 10 who should have stayed in school and learned their game and developed their skills... and their teamwork attitude. RE: the dearth of coaches with titles, If Midhael Jordan hadn't taken a couple of years off, Houston wouldn't have interrupted Jackson's string of championships during the 90's. It takes coaches AND players to win. When Shaq and Kobe click, Phil Jackson's a genius. With Jordan and Pippen, same story. Pippen without Jordan, Jackson's an also-ran. Tim Duncan has made Popvich's career for him. Isiah Thomas running Chuck Daley's system made the Pistons champs. Rudy T. rode Alajuwon. I'm no sayin that the coaches DON'T suck. But the coach doesn't brick that clutch free throw, either. __________________ "Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard

01-14-2004, 11:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
aswo Crazy	Although i am a big basketball fan i agree, the problem i feel lies in the media's perception of a good player and the amount of attention focused on that one "good" Player. LIke take for instance football this year Peyton Manning and Steve mcnair tied or the MVP, but everyone feels that they got there because of a team whereas in basketball there is a notion that great players are the ones who win championships, but that really isn't the case if you look back at the last dynasty's in basketball in the last 15 years you will see teams that had th marquee player, but around him where teams that were exellent. In basketball now though considering how short contracts are and how many times players are traded it is much harder to develop rivalries and matchups that draws a fans interest. __________________ People who love people

01-14-2004, 04:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Anomaly_ Insane	Well do you think the NBA was any better a few years ago when Rudy T. and Pat Riley were still coaching? Their past titles certainly weren't doing much for them. I do agree in that there are too many green, former players being hired without much coaching experience (i.e. Doc Rivers and Maurice Cheeks). Not only that, good coaches like Rick Carlisle and Paul Silas get the boot without good reason. I think if coaches like Carlisle and Silas are given some time to develop a team then we will see a new guard of championship teams (or maybe just consistent Eastern Conference champions).

01-14-2004, 07:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	I'm not sure the coaches suck, it's just bad basketball. It really is. Selfishness, personalities are dull, and the players are bigger then the league is. It's hard to know who's a good coach with the talent level outside the Lakers and the Spurs and Bulls in the last 15 years. That's why the NBA is dying, Jordan was a marketing hound. The NBA markets it's players, not the game itself. I haven't watched an NBA game all year, and I won't till April. It's bad, boring, and I'm not so sure the coaches are to blame. The NBA is.

01-14-2004, 07:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zeld2.0 Cherry-pickin' devil's advocate Location: Los Angeles	I'd have to agree with Kurant on some points - the game has really deteriorated. Most people can remember the 80's to 90's basketball era - often considered one of the golden ages - why? Because of great players and far more competition between teams. Theres defenitely a shift now - West dominance and the titles being in the hands of a few teams in the last 5 years (the Lakers and Spurs of course). I've been a fan of basketball for a long time but IMO its true the players are what draw fans - Jordan even playing with the shitty Wizards practically assured sell outs - hell I remember the last game Jordan played against Lakers w/ Washington was sold out months before and no other games near it were sold out at the time. Problem is that many players these days no longer draw fans like they used to - name whatever you want, from controversy over salaries to huge egos, they're no longer the draws they once were and ever since the game has sagged imo. People would pay to watch Jordan, Bird, Johnson, etc. - but I cant say many people would pay to watch Iverson, McGrady, etc. LeBron is an example of a player who can sell tickets similar to Jordan and what not. And I do want to make it a point that basketball is really like the one sport where a majority of teams can exist 30 years and still have no championships just my take anyways

01-15-2004, 01:35 AM	#10 (permalink)
Hrothgar He's My Girl Location: The Champagne Douche	It's deteriorated to 1 on 1 with 8 other guys being cleared out while the "star" from team 1 tries to break the "star" of team 2 off the dribble and shoot a 3 pointer or a double reverse dispy doo dunkaroo no look behind the back dunk. Yay!!! Not!!! __________________ The fortunes of war favored Hrothgar. Last edited by Hrothgar; 01-15-2004 at 01:37 AM..

01-15-2004, 02:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
jay-g Addict	When you have Shaq and Kobe or Timmy and the admiral, i think it shouldnt be hard to win eventually. Phil should really test his skills and see if he can build and make a sorry team good. As for other good coaches, dont know his name but the coach for the Detroit is bringing them back. I would really like to see what some of the premier colleges coaches could do. Like coach k, lute olson, or even the ex coach of georgetown, Thompson.

01-15-2004, 06:19 AM	#12 (permalink)
BigBlueWrecking Psycho	Lenny Wilkens won a title back in the day. I think the players suck now!

01-15-2004, 12:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	I hate when people say they played better ball back in the 80's. That's bullshit. The top teams today would destroy the top teams of the 80's. The athletes are bigger and better. Period. Just think about it. Back when Dr J was playing he was the best athlete in the game. There are at least 4 guys on every team right now who are better athletes than Dr J. Sure, it's a different style game today, but I love it.

01-15-2004, 01:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	a big contrast with the 80's is the 3 point shooting. One of the mid-80's Lakers championship teams shot a team FG% of like 53%... the highest ever. That year, they attempted about 1/4 the amount of 3 point FGs that the avg NBA team attempts today. Higher percentage shots = higher score __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals] Last edited by Halx; 01-15-2004 at 11:58 PM..

01-15-2004, 03:17 PM	#17 (permalink)
dragon2fire Junkie	yea larry brown is good coach so is paul sialis oki cant spell the cavs coach

01-15-2004, 06:18 PM	#19 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	First off, there was no Mid 90's Lakers championship team. 87 was the last time before 2000. Second off, you can't find a guy on those old Laker and Celtic teams that coulden't shoot a 15 footer. Make the bounce pass, play basketball to play ball. It was a team game, alot less isolation, and was very popular. You can argue defense wasen't played them, but you can also argue almost every guy could knock down a 15 footer. Today's game, while quite different, can be entertaining, but to me, it's very dull, poorly played, and just generally bad basketball. They don't shoot as well, but drive and dish better. Don't play offense as well as a team, but defend better as a team. It's changed with time... It's faster, and to some better. I just enjoyed watching Bird, Magic and Jordan. To me, that was good basketball. Last edited by Kurant; 01-15-2004 at 06:30 PM..

01-15-2004, 07:11 PM	#20 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	First off, I'm sure Hal meant mid 80's Lakers squad. If an NBA player is left open at the 15 foot range the shot will go down most of the time. You put a hand in his face and the shooting percentages drop drastically. It's a fact. I can knock down a shot from 12 to 20 feet at around 60% when nobody is on me. Put some tight D and a hand in my grill and it drops down to 20%. Why? Defense! For the record. In my hoops career I shot over 55% from the field, over 40% from 3, and just over 80% from the line. That's because I didn't try to do things I wasn't capable of. Just because the Lakers and Celtics had great shooters doesn't mean that every team was full of jump shooters. Because they weren't.

01-15-2004, 11:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
Kurant Junkie Location: Don't worry about it.	It's pointless to argue. Here is the bottom line, and you can have whatever opinion you want. Ask people why they don't watch the NBA - The ego's, the attitude, the selfishness, and the lack of GOOD basketball, and it's bloody boring to watch when it doesn't mean anything. People go to see the personalities, and the players, proven very easily by the Wizards selling out practically every game Jordan played, as well as Lebron. You can't argue that, because it's a fact. People could give a shit less who wins, who loses, as long as they see Michael Jordan or Lebron play, they are happy. I really thought when ESPN started hitting the NBA big, it would rebound and start becoming a house hold thing again. It hasen't. People don't even talk about it till April. If you want to argue that, then so be it. I can't change what you think of today's game. You can fight kicking and screaming the whole way about how good today's game is, it doesn't change the bottom line that the NBA is not as popular as it used to be, and we're discussing why, not arguing about todays game and yesterday's game. Those are nice #'s BTW. Last edited by Kurant; 01-15-2004 at 11:39 PM..

01-15-2004, 11:57 PM	#22 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I did mean mid 80's.. WHOOPS __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

01-19-2004, 10:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
cactus_bangers Upright	a huge problem with games is lack of excitement.....that is, lack of excitement for the average fan. defense has improved drastically, with better individual defenders on the perimeter, better help defense on the inside, overall team defense, and of course the zone. all this defense translates into poorer percentages and less shots falling, and Joe Everyfan doesnt wanna tune in to see players missing their shots. also, the length of the season contributes to the "problem", in the same way that it does with hockey and baseball. with football, the regular season lasts around 18 games....which means that each week the game means a whole heck of a lot. basketball seasons last 82 games....and while each game does mean a lot, it just doesnt seem that way. also, tv networks can't really air games in a way that would get fans involved. sadly, its the nature of the beast....there are 29 teams in the NBA right now (i think)....and only a fraction of the games for each team are televised on popular networks. how can anyone get interested in following the progress of a team when you only get to see a few of their games....on random days of the week....well over a week apart?

01-20-2004, 09:54 AM	#24 (permalink)
Nimbletoe Junkie Location: Michigan	Cactus hit the nail on the head. Comparing the popularity of football to basketball is stupid. The ONLY thing they have in common is that they are both sports. Basketball teams play about 5 times as many games in not that much longer of a season, which obviously means multiple games per week. At different times, on different stations, and sometimes not even televised, ESPECIALLY if your favorite team isn't the team that plays close to you. Football is every sunday (for the most part), with all the games being televised on prime time. If each NBA team played 1 game a week, people would go to see it more, because there would be less of it. Has VERY little to do with marketing. __________________ Go Pistons!

01-20-2004, 12:29 PM	#26 (permalink)
Nimbletoe Junkie Location: Michigan	Thats cheating, he just got hired and wasn't coaching when he posted that! __________________ Go Pistons!

01-23-2004, 10:43 AM	#27 (permalink)
jobu Crazy	I don’t think that the coaches suck in the NBA. They wouldn’t be there if they didn’t know how to coach. The real problem lies with the players that are coming into the league. Today’s player is usually out of H.S. or has 1-2 years of playing in college. Most are now H.S. players who lack the fundamentals to play in the NBA. I heard on the radio the other day that the top 5 prospects for this years draft are all in H.S. These guys have yet to refine their skills and really learn the game of basketball. NBA coaches are not there to teach the players the fundamentals. They are there to game plan and teach the intricacies of the game. NBA coaches expect their players to come in and do things that they have never been asked or shown how to do in the past. Because of this they usually end up failing. Also, with the addition of the zone defense, there has been more of an emphasis on shooting from the outside. I think this is why there has been an influx of European players in the league. I saw a special on how they train their players in Europe. They start when these kids are very young and they are sent to “basketball schools” where they are taught the fundamentals. They learn shooting, passing, free throws, blocking out, etc. American players don’t have the fundamentals that they used. People have become enamored with the dunk. They want to make the highlight films and they usually end up focusing on the areas that get them in the spotlight as opposed to the NBA finals. The other problem I see with the coach/player relationship is respect. Before Jackson, the Lakers couldn’t get it done. Jackson stepped in and immediately Kobe and Shaq gave him the respect that a coach needs to get the job done. The only reason he got the respect was that he had one before. With players being pampered and getting millions it is very hard for them to take orders from a guy that gets paid significantly less. A coach can’t cut a player if he feels players aren’t giving their all. The other problem is that with all this money is that they have no motivation to better themselves. No matter what a coach says or does he can’t make these guys have heart. So to say that the coaching is poor in the NBA I think is an inaccurate statement. I think the quality of players in the NBA is poor.

01-23-2004, 11:58 PM	#28 (permalink)
cactus_bangers Upright	i dont like when people fall back onto "players coming into this league arent ready" crap....true, most players coming into this league arent ready to play fantastic NBA ball. they're not supposed to. players drafted into the league are expected to be ready to LEARN how to play in the NBA, not take over teams and grab starting spots all the time - very few picks can enter the league and start at their position and excel. drafted players are supposed to take a few years before they become anything special. look at corey maggette....elton brand.....shawn marion...all players who have been in the league 5 or fewer years and are only now starting to do really well. as for euro players, its dead on that they're taught the fundamentals....fundamentals of pure shooting and general offense. defense isnt really emphasized there, and if you took a european player and put him on the court with an NBA defense, he'd most likely get ripped up. defense is what's killing the NBA.....so many defensive-minded teams out there, with every team getting so efficient at running a good defensive set, reading the offense, going over screens, collapsing on great offensive players, forcing turnovers and bad shots. people think so much stock is placed in players making that dunk....players take just as much pride in swatting down a jumper or forcing their man to throw up a horrible shot. teams and coaches see that defense wins championships.....sucks that viewers wanna see points first, rings later.