Cubby

But once again redlemon it just IS. It is the way the game is played. In fact, showing how much time left near the 89th minute is a relatively new thing. They didn't used to do that.

On the other hand, why does NFL have a 2:00 minute rule? Why are the last two minutes so different that the other 28 of the half?

Once agin..it is just differences in the sports. Each sport is unique and I'm sure most sports can be enjoyed and are enjoyed much more when you know and understand the game.

__________________
Don't be irreplaceable - if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted!

Manwich

Check out college football for more on riots. I think for the NFL there is a huge disconnect just because each major city isn't fielding a team. A large number of states don't have professional teams.

On the otherhand, colleges are everywhere, and each state fields at least 2 division 1 teams. Then you get rivalries, upsets, and usually riots. Although since these riots are usually started by college idiots, they don't result in death, more property damage.

xaneidolon

To misquote P.J. O'Rourke, the reason that American's don't get into soccer is because that the equipment does not cost enough. It takes a ball, a street (or a park), and something to set up the goals. Apparently we Americans need to pay a lot for our sports equipment...

/end sarcasm...but somehow believe that's true...

cheesemoney

I'd say far more americans play soccer as kids than American football--primarily for the fact that A) it is cheaper and B) it is less dangerous (although Football as a kid isn't dangerous--you really don't have to worry much about broken limbs/necks until the highschool level).

American DO play soccer.
They just quit before high school and go into baseball/basketball/football.

mr_mcrafe

I believe they are cracking down on "simulating" (faking injuries), although I think they should take a hard line and go through all games and give everyone who hollywoods when they werent even touched a wopping big fine.

Tempboy

Soccer HIGHLIGHTS are great to watch.. a lot of the goals are things of beauty.

But as for a whole game? Last time I tried to watch one, I fell asleep..

If they had more people like the Korean girl from the World Cup, maybe I'd watch more.

Mojo_PeiPei

I got a question for all you non-yanks out there... Is soccer a profitable sport for the players? I know that David Beckham(sp) makes a killing and is a god among men, but how are they payed compared to our sports stars?

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Spartak

Actual pay rates are very hush-hush, but it is reported that top players can earn between 300,000-400,000 pounds a month, from wages alone.

Once you add in all their personal endorsments, ofcourse that figure grows substantially.

__________________
I can read your mind... looking at you... I can read your mind...

milkyp

I'm really not so sure why i don't like soccer...

It has nothing to do with the lack of contact, because I love basketball, which is not supposed to have too much contact. I guess overall there just isnt enough action.

Mojo_PeiPei

Basketball is definently 10x more contact then soccer, its just not full-on like football. I'd somewhat compare it to hockey, minus the hardcore checks.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Ace_O_Spades

The neutral zone trap in Hockey is turning it into Soccer

woe is me

i can't watch soccer on ice! RUN UP THE SCORE!!!!

floydthebarber

I read a post somewhere here on the TFP from a guy that actually thought the trap was good hockey.
Bleh, the trap fucking sucks.


I don't think you can understand the beauty of soccer unless you actually played it.

__________________
wish you were here

drown_with_me

Your kidding, right? If "10x more contact" means simply just fouling/picking then you MIGHT be close. See my earlier post.

__________________

"I wanna see the movies
of your dreams..."

- Built to Spill

JohnnyRock

any sport that doesn't require hand-eye coordination is not a sport...I'm going to watch REAL FOOTBALL in two weeks and be happy about it.

__________________
Not only do I not know the answer...I don't even know what the question is!!!

drown_with_me

I'm going to go out on a limb and be a bit presumptuous, but isn't eye-foot coordination a lot harder to master than hand-eye?

Now, I'm not downplaying the skills of say, my-man Larry Fitzgerald of Univ of Pitt.... but isn't saying "any sport that doesn't require hand-eye coordination isn't a sport" highly ridiculous?

__________________

"I wanna see the movies
of your dreams..."

- Built to Spill

Mojo_PeiPei

Injuries like that can occur in any sport. Your ever play in the paint? There's alot more to basketball then just throwing ups shots, or kicking the ball up a field.

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

Ace_O_Spades

Has anyone seen the episode of The Simpsons where soccer comes to Springfield?

The announcing is hilarious

and the neutral zone trap is killing hockey, not being good hockey.

and its impossible to say any given sport is tougher than any other sport, because they require entirely different skillsets

hell, an american football player couldnt play soccer for shit, just like a soccer player couldnt play american football for shit. Its all relative and there's no need to bash other people's sports, each to his/her own.

Tempboy

I disagree Ace_O_Spades..
If you're capable of running, as the majority of people in this world are, you can kick a ball, and therefore you're capable of playing soccer. You probably won't be GOOD at it.. but you can still play.

But for, say, hockey, if you can run, that doesn't mean you can skate. Assuming you can skate, then you have to consider stickhandling and puck work, which is an art in itself.

Soccer is THE easiest sport to pick up.. but it's not easy to be good at it.

Ace_O_Spades

man i can run fast, ~4.65 40yd time. and i play College football, but I can't play soccer at ALL. I cant kick the ball with any great force or accuracy, and my football training doesnt give me the endurance speed most soccer players have. I can hit a quarterback so hard that his girlfriend cries, but i cant kick a ball in the net.

I can also not shoot a basketball, or skate very well. Im specialized in my sport, and i play it well.

It is possible that I'm a unique case though, but i doubt it

cheesemoney

Christ.... there is no question that soccer, rugby, football, and hot dog eating are all sports...
As is the porn olympics.
But is pool a sport?
If it isn't, then is golf?

Do you ALWAYS have to run for it to be a sport.
I think baseball is a sport, but much of it involves sitting on your ass. Yet baseball players are HUGE and can kick all of our collective asses.

Yet I could kick Michelle Wie's ass in boxing... does that make me a better athelete?

Is driving a sport?
If it is, then would video game driving be a sport?
Counter-Strike?

That requires hand eye.

Personally, I consider athletes to be people that I am in awe of athletically. That is, people that are extremely strong, quick, tough, precise, etc.

I don't care how dangerous it is, I'll never think that some fat fuck of a Nascar driver (not all are fat) is an athlete. There is a chance that I could be a Nascar driver. I'll never be an NBA center.

Its just not in the cards.
Some people swear that Nascar is a sport. Some swear that golf is a sport. Some swear that bowling is a sport too.

Is poker a sport then? Are these players athletes? Chess players?

There is no conclusive fucking answer people. Get over it.

Ace_O_Spades

wow, amen to that! it puts more precisely what i was trying to say earlier

as of right now

</thread>

mbchills

wow you need to be shot

__________________
rawr.

mbchills

americans dont like football (soccer) because its non stop, all their sports have breaks in between where they can go to the bathroom, and refill their snack bowl. i guess they'll just never understand.

not like anybody cares really, let america play what they want

the world cup being the biggest sporting event in the world, came to USA and did pretty good, but maybe in 20 years or so they should try again

__________________
rawr.

Ace_O_Spades

at least i can vouch for the canadian sports (hockey + lacrosse) as being as continuous as soccer

and those sports are popular in the states as well (lacrosse not as much, but its growing)

so you cant overgeneralize and say that all american sports have stops and the americans hate soccer because its continuous

it makes you sound childish and pigheaded... neither of which are good things in my books anyway, but each to his own

cheesemoney

Please... the real reason that American's don't watch soccer is that we have 3 big sports already...
Hockey can't really even make it here.

Soccer's fun for me, in the World Cup, solely because of the stakes involved.

And yes, I played soccer for about 8 years or so, as do many american kids. If I lived in Europe, I'd watch plenty of soccer, because it is a fun group event to go to a pub, get semi-smashed, and watch sports.

Just like football.

Lunchbox7

I have only just discovered this thread and I am amazed at the amount of ignorance there is about propper football (aka soccer).

The first fallacy that I will debate is the arguement that soccer players are pussys. This is the same argument used by those faggy rugby league boys. Now that is harder than most sports but it doesnt have anywhere near the intellignec and skill that soccer has. The number of times I have heard from neaderthal rugby league player that soccer players are for poofters is uncountable. I would often ask them if I was a poof because I played soccer. They would inevitable say yes. I would then say "I am also a kickboxer. Am I still a poof". They then know that I am heaps harder than them and have to yield defeat. Now I have played almost every sport under the sun and soccer is one of the hardest games I have played. Heaps harder than Hockey. I liked hockey. I played hockey for two years and I couldnt believe how pussy it was. You have soo much protective gear on that you cant possibly get hurt (and I wore the least equipment in the league). As previously mentioned there are punishments for diving by recieving a yellow card. This is because it takes away from the game and wastes time. The reason that soccer players hit the ground so much is a case of biomechanics. If someone is sprinting at full speed (strikers usually run as fast as olympic sprinters) and they get hit full on at body level thenthey either stop dead or get hit backwards. This doesnt happen when the opposing force hits you in the ankles. Your feet, and thus base of support, is stopped but your bodys momentum continues. In such a situation the result is a pretty spectacular looking dive. It may look fake but it is the only thing that physics allows to happen.

Another point that has been commonly brought up is the low scores that are commonplace in soccer. This is a by-product of what I call 'the americanisation of sport'. By this I mean that the game is no longer designed for the players but for the spectators, often to the detriment of the game. Such examples are designated hitter rule, interchange rule, and scoring every 30 seconds. The interchange rule was experimented in both soccer and league and they realised it sucked. It took away a major strategic part of the game and denounced stamina as one of the pre requisits of the athlete. A winger averages over 11km per game (assuming he plays his position right). This means that a winger has to spread his sprinting over the 90 minutes of the game instead of the 2 minutes typically allocated to the athletes in american sports. The other point of scoring every 30 seconds like in basketball may be interesting as a show but it gets boring very quickly as tyhere is no suspense built up. Some of the best soccer games I have ever seen have been nill all draws because the entire time I have been on the edge of my seat. When two great teams are dualing then 1 mistake can cost them the game. In the higher scoring games 1 mistake can be easily remedied with subsequent opportunities. Ironically Americans use this reason to say Soccer is Boring but they find Cricket boring when they usually score a run every 30 second for 5 days. The desgniated hitter rule also fits in with the offensive/defensive teams of gridiron. A true athlete must be able to attack and defend. You dont stop a game to change your team because suddenly your not attacking anymore. It takes out the strategy of counter attack. It also lessens the quality of the athlete. It also breaks the momentum of suspense and thus amking the game harder to get into. Dont get me wrong. I think the american games such as gridiron, basketball and the canadian ice hockey have a lot of potential but you have to eliminate the americanisation of it. The game comes first.

Another point to raise is that soccer is the biggest sport in the world. They must be doing something right. The soccer world cup is second only to the olympics in media hype. True soccer fans that are found in europe and south america take their games so seriously. Countries have actually gone to war over a soccer game. You dont find that in many other sports.

As someone previously said soccer has the true claim to the title of football. Why? It uses the feet more than anything else. How can league, union or gridiron possible call themselves football when the ball spends almost the entire time in their hands. AFL could be accurately called a code of football but only as second to soccer.

The reason for stoppage time is to stop fakers from playing the clock and trhus getting advantage unfairly over the other team. The game must go on.

The people who rate gridiron as really tough should then try rugby league or rugby union. They do the same sort of hits but without helmets and their shoulder pads are paper thin. As previously said I hate league but at least I have to admit that it is harder than most sports.

I will admit that some soccer games are boring. Different countrys tend to breed different types of soccer. German soccer is as boring as shite. Spanish soccer is flairy but extremely brutal. Brazilian soccer define flair. English soccer whilst very good can appear boring if two strong defensive teams are playing each other. Dont just watch 1 or 2 games from the same league and then denounce all soccer as like that.

Thats my two cents anyway...

Ace_O_Spades

Intelligent post Lunchbox and you raise several key points which have not been fleshed out in as much detail

However, you need to realize that different sports produce different levels of athletes, utilizing different energy systems (endurance, short burst, and a mix of both) So it is pointless to say that one sports athletes are better than another sports athletes.

I am also going to look into your claim about strikers running 10 second flat 100m times, or 20 second 200m times... because that was not a fact I've heard before... Not that I'm saying you're lying, however I find it hard to believe.

I won't analyze your other comments, because trying to argue that one person's sport is better or harder than another is just a waste of breath... each to his own mate

cheers

__________________
Feh.

Speed_Gibson

Personnaly I have very little interest in Football in any form, but the proper form can hold my interest longer than the NFL anytime. As long as I do not have to hear "goooooooooooooooooooooooooal!", that kind of shit would have me changing the channel on my mythical televsion set in a heartbeat.

__________________
Started talking to yourself I see.
Yes, it's the only way I can be certain of an intelligent conversation.

Black Adder

Lunchbox7

I understand what your saying about different sports have different physical requirements and thus different athletes. My point about soccer players being fitter is based on them needing more different types of fitness: sprinting, power, endurence, agility etc. The majority of other sports dont have as large a requirement for a variety of physical fitness.

When looking into the sprinting thing remember that strikers dont run 100m or 200M. They reach the same speeds but only need to sustain them over a shorter distance. If it helps you when looking look into the biomechanical design of strikers soccer boots compared to other players boots. Strikers boots are as light and thin as possible. They resemble sprint shoes they have been stripped down in weight so much. This position specific requirements are often overlooked when players are buying boots. Professionals have biomechanical specialists to design their boots in relation to their needs. Thats just a few things you can look into when researching to verify my claim. If you find out anything particulay coo[l in your research let us know.

bond007

indoor soccer = fast paced, lots of scoring, fun to watch.
outdoor soccer = none of the above.

Ace_O_Spades

uhh... wow, how can you take anything else OFF sprint shoes? they are basically a thin layer of fabric with spikes attached to the bottom

I actually have a professor at my university who has a doctorate in Kinesiology, who I think will field the question nicely.

I'll post the results when he emails me back

__________________
Feh.

splck

Indoor soccer? Never heard of such a thing.
Why does a game need to be high scoring to be fun to watch? I mean basketball is high scoring and it's boring as hell

__________________
nice line eh?

jcookc6

have gone through this before, people who run sports TV don't understand it. and the MLS sucks with all the horn blowing, get a headache listening to it.
In fact the people who run TV sports don't understand any sports.

Ace_O_Spades

I got an e-mail back from the professor, and this is what he said:

And this seems strikingly familiar to something a Wide Receiver in american football would be capable of... in fact, Az Hakim used to be a sprinter for the USA before joining football...

although, it is once again a different energy system... so the argument rages on and on!

Glad I could shed some light on it though.

Cheers

__________________
Feh.

almostaugust

The absurdity of this thread is in the buried in the fact that Americans do like soccer, but seemingly only at an amateur level. Its very similar in Australia. Over here, everyone seems to think we only play AFL, League and Cricket- but amateur association numbers show that Soccer is the most popular.
Anyway, i think soccer is a much better sport than most. Like others have said, you need to be an almost total athlete to compete effectively. You must learn to regualte speed, strength, endurance and a heep of skill. Anyone who thinks the game is 'soft' just hasnt played it competitvely. One reason why it is 'the world game', is that although it requires all of the above, it doesnt matter what general type of body you have. Really short guys like Maradonna (one of the best players ever) can compete as efficiently as taller players. Unlike sports like Basketball or American Football, where size means everything.
America has a shitload of top goalkeepers in the premier league at the moment. people have put this down to the amount of sports that require hand/eye co-ordination that are played over there. i personally dont think the US can officially and culturally ignore it for too much longer, as it is just so freaking huge everywhere else in the world. Then again....

__________________
'And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe
Maybe this year will be better than the last
I can't remember all the times I tried to tell my myself
To hold on to these moments as they pass'

goddfather40

Now, I am not a soccer hater. I am not a soccer fanatic either. I follow the US national team periodically and have a passing interest in leagues worldwide. With that background, here is a funny site, despite that it probably has a ton of fallacies and/or inaccuracies.

www.soccersucks.org

__________________
My name is goddfather40 and I approved this message.

I got ho's and I got bitches,
In C++ I branch with switches
-MC Plus+

Lunchbox7

I meant a strikers soccer boots have been stripped down so much that they resemble sprinters boots which you have said are basically a thin layer with spikes on the bottom (studs in the strikers case)

rocinante2003

I lived in the UK all my childhood, played football daily. Someone said football is artistic, and it really is. Its a pure passion. One vast difference from NFL for example, is European football clubs are much more local for most, so people have a more direct connection to the team. Just in the UK, a vast number of teams, in several divisions. I love sports, NFL, Baseball, so dont think i am putting one against the other.

During the last world cup, the games were on late at night, and TXStar has absolutely no interest in watching them with me. She sat through a few, and one one occassion, we where watching the USA team play Germany. As soon as USA scored, against these giants, TXStar became passionate about these 11 guys she was bored at just the day before, watching them "run after a ball for 90 minutes.... yawn". She then followed the team, read a little on some of the players history and got that little sparkle in her eye.

Every sport has its followers, and its critics.

Ace_O_Spades

I can get excited about any sport... it just took some exposure to the sport (Through FIFA 2004) to get me interested... Now i manage to catch at least one match per week on Sportsnet

they are fun

__________________
Feh.

Hrothgar

I didn't grow up watching it. When i was younger I idolized baseball and football stars. That's why soccer, for me, only peaks my interest during the World Cup only.

__________________
The fortunes of war favored Hrothgar.