I probably wouldn't dispute that if not for Dan "Choke" Cloutier.

I've known players in the minors who havw said this. I know it makes no sense for them to say this. I'm glad you caught the underlying meaning.

yup............that fucker better pull his head outta his ass this playoffs.

it's his time to shine ...............fucker better do it too.

or i'll personally go kick his choking ass myself.


canucks all the way.

Don't hold back, tell us what you really think :)

I think dan could take you... although i dont know what im basing that on hahaha

[edit]

oh yeah, because bertuzzi would have his back

I'm just hoping my Flames make it in, and make a splash. :)

I wanna see Cloutier for Kolzig by the trade deadline, or else...

the wings should be a little higher than that... c'mon seriously

Well my Blues have done everything except win in the past month. This blows so goddamn much, watching them lose game after game after game, even after building a decent lead.

The Wings haven't been very crisp either of late. Although they did destroy New Jersey with Brodeur in net, which is more than enough to hold me over until they get their shit together again.

holy shit the sens blew the lead my god do they ever suck i love it when they lose. does sens management know what a tough guy looks like chris neil and todd simpson horrible.

GO LEAFS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, the canucks laid the lumber to the devils tonight, good job nucks

yeah the sedins looked awesome tonight


good game between leafs and sens. half the sens team was suffering from the flu too.

I eagerly await the day when the leafs all collapse from exhaustion and head off to the retirement home.

won't happen before the wings. half the sens were sick everey team in the league is missing players on a night to night basis.

I'll laugh my head off if the wild make a streak for the playoffs after the all star break and beat vancouver again int eh playoffs. (if you don't think minnesota can do it again you shouldn't be watching hockey, they have already started..)

ugh that series against the wild made me sick especially game 7. The wild got so much puck luck that it wasn't even funny. The only goal i can fault Cloutier that game was the 3rd one.

oh yeah and the only reason why I cheer for the wild is Richard Park. ahhahahaha

I dont see the canucks slowing down at all, they are primed and ready to take control of their conference AND the league, within one game... but you never know... more farked things have happened

any team can become hot or cold at any time that is the great thing about hockey and all team sports.

NHL All-Star Game:
East 6, West 4
MVP -- Joe Sakic, Colorado Avalanche

Young Stars Game:
West 7, East 3
MVP -- Phillipe Sauve, Colorado Avalanche

I'm an Avs fan; can you see me smiling?

Argh, we need colorado to slow down so the canucks can leapfrog into the #1 spot

Blasphemy! :eek:

hahaha, each to his own

only time will tell

only the leafs and Lord Stanley's Mug will tell

leafs? ugh....

they better hope Belfour stays healthy down the stretch. he should've been in the all-star game in my opinion.

they've got more than Belfour but not in nets Kidd is shit and Telquist is just unproven.

Eddie should of been in the All-Star Game that's for sure

Red Wings beat Avs at Colorado in a game that means something. Let me know when doing anything in the All-Star game counts for anything.




Art

ps I told you Blues fans that you were not worthy...good luck even making the playoffs.

I sense much hate in Artermis

its just a game eh

I'm so glad Holland gave Hasek 6 mil to work out for a year. That money would have been well spent on Robert Lang, but oh no, we get a gimp goalie and alienate the goalie we are taking to the playoffs. Hopefuly he doesn't hold grudges. And I hope to god they don't waste their time with Zhamnov, unless its a 3 way trade with Washington for Lang.

As far as St. Louis goes, I don't see them not making the playoffs, since they only have to shake Calgary and Nashville to get there. Although I am sick of hearing how the loss of 2 "key" defenseman have caused their fall. Jackman is far from key, and alot of teams have had important players lost this season to injury, and are doing fine. If it is true that losing 2 Dmen derails your playoff hopes, you didn't have the depth to go anywhere in playoffs anyway.

Except that the first high-sticking penalty at the end of the third (called on Konowalchuk) was miscalled. It was Kariya, and I can't imagine calling a double minor when you're not sure who committed the penalty. 2 minutes, maybe, but not 4.

Aside from the messiness at the end, it was a good game. Rematch this Saturday.

Colorado vs Detroit games are always awesome to watch.

I dunno why but I've always favoured Detroit to win those games ever since the Claude Lemieux/Kris Draper incident. Can't believe he only got a 2 game suspension because of that. And I remember Dino Ciccerelli was in disbelief saying to himself "I can't believe I shook that guy's (Lemieux's) hand."

Calgary's injury problems have been one of the worst this season.. on our goaltenders (Kiprusoff, Turek, and McLennan have all been injured at some point during the season), our C (Yelle is still out, Conroy was injured, Betts is out for the season.. )

And despite all that, we're still in the hunt.
Go Flames Go!

Injuries look at the Leafs for a team that continued to win even with star players out, talk about adversity

Man if you wanna talk about injuries, just look at the Los Angeles Kings. They've lost almost everyone at one point in the season and are still in the playoff hunt.

Yes, I agree with that. LA has had the worst of the injury problems.

While I agree with you that it was a miss-call, especially since I have Kariya in a Fantasy league and could have used the penalty minutes, the double minor was a must. If they call the highstick, and there is blood, then they have no option but to give out a double minor. That is one of the few rules that is not up to the ref's interpretation.

Still, you'd think that they'd want to give that penalty to the right person.

Also, about the injuries, consider this: At the rate Forsberg has been racking up the points, if he hadn't lost 26 games to injury, he'd be on track for 121 points this season: 42 goals and 79 assists.

For comparison, Naslund, the current NHL points leader, is on track for 98 points.

there are many what if's over the years what if the oilers didnit trade Gretzky, what if Theo Fleury hadn't blown his chances, the point is you can't really judge how well he would have done by how well he has done there are too many things to account for.

I dont have hate...hate means you want something dead...I dislike the Blues because all I heard on the first part of the thread was about the Blues catching the Red WIngs and this and that.

Umm the Red Wings were also hit hard by injuries and they just keep on playing like good squads do.


Art

true good squds persevere

And they are going to have to again. Joseph went down last night with a sprained ankle. This is the very next game after Hasek announced he was done for the year. It's a conspiracy I tell ya, a C-O-N spiracy!

Although, I think Legace should have been given a shot at the #1 spot 2 years ago. So maybe now is his chance.

Hasek is a whiney bum that can't make his damn mind.

Still have to give him credit though. I hope he doesn't play again.... or again..... or again.

I've got a darkhorse to remind you guys of. The Dallas Stars. Yeah, that's right I said it. They're on a tear right now and they have something to prove. I honestly think that the Stars will end up in at least the Western Conference Finals, and perhaps even win it. Marty Turco is playing great, and Mike Modanon looks like he is getting back to his old self again. So watch out now! And don't forget about the Stars.

This is why they got beat by the islanders? (well almost)

I partially agree with this. Right now the Blues biggest problem is offense, or lack of it. In the last 10 games the Blues have only scored 12 goals while giving up 27. In the 10 games before that they scored 26 goals while giving up 28. So defensivly they have gotten slightly better. 17 of the 27 goals came in a 4 game stretch so they're still averaging less than 2 goals a game on most nights. That doesn't mean much though when they are only averaging 1 goal a game themselves.

The part I disagree with is saying Jackman is not a key player. He led the Blues in +/- last year with a +23, played 20+ minutes a game and he and MacInnis were arguably one of the top 5 defensive pairings in the league.

Points are points. Ties happen, it's a fact of hockey, oh, yeah, almost forgot, the Stars are UNBEATEN in the last 8 games.

i can't believe the Leafs traded away another good young player in Ric Jackman for Drake Berehowsky who has had ample chances to find his niche in the league yet continues to suck. John Ferguson Jr. is not doing a good job managing young talent so far, they should of gotten rid of Aki Berg he is easily the worst defenceman in the organization.

Yeah well, the Blues have hit a dry spell......not good when it lasts for 25 games. They have won 2 straight, though, so I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

3 penalties for Berehowsky in his first game and Jackman scored a goal and played a solid game

Holy crap gaborik got a hat trick. And wtf is up with the best play being broduer snagging a shot from park, anyone see brad richards goal by chance tonight against philly? He knocked the puck out of the air with his stick back across the net and behind burke..

Tucker did that the other night against the Pens, it's not really a big deal people do it all the time in Junior and even minor hockey, it's like when that Crosby kid put the puck in from behind the net (a la lacrosse) not a big deal when I played we were practicing that every practice and game, it is really easy try it.

URGH!

I know everyone needs to support their team, etc, but the Canucks have some of the most unreliable goaltending in the league. Unless they trade for Kolzig or Turek or someone else I can't think of right now, they won't go past the second round. Hedberg and Cloutier are average at best.

Detroit, Colorado, New Jersey, Ottawa, Toronto, and Tampa Bay are the only ones I would put any money on in the playoffs. If I had to pick a dark horse (ala Anaheim in 2003), it would either be Boston or Montreal because of their goaltending.

Unreliable goaltending? Are you serious? I know Cloutier and Hedberg aren't both Brodeurs or Turcos but if you compare their seasons to a lot of the other goalies in the league, I'd rather take the Vancouver duo. And I hope to god they never trade for a washed up Kolzig or an even more unreliable Turek.

You wanna talk about what is unreliable with the Canucks right now. Their defense. Absolutely brutal for the past 6-7 games.

As questionable as Cloutier is, I definitely wouldn't trade him for Turek. Not that i want to improve Vancouver's playoff prospects, but I wish they, or some other good team in need of an experienced goalie, could get Denis from CLB. That poor guy is just wasting away there.

Also, I hate to hear Boston being called a darkhorse. They are only 3 points behind the league lead, and have a pretty talented team. The only questionable part of their game is their goaltending, and that is because of Raycroft's lack of playoff experience, not because he hasn't played off his ass during the regular season. I agree with the Tampa Bay pick though. I wouldn't want to be the team to get them in the first round. And if Nashville can somehow sneak in there, watch out, cause they have got nothing to lose.

Being an Ottawa fan, I can tell you a thing or two about unreliable goaltending.
Our backup, Martin Prusek has been looking better than Lalime for most of the season.
The Sens shoulda sent Lalime and a draft pick over to Washington for Kolzig, that would give us a good shot at the cup.

Edited cause I'm dumb.

The Sens need more than goaltending maybe they should start by trying to find some heart.

haha well maybe now that they got Bondra they'll wake up and realize that they have a legitimate shot at the cup this year. If the Canucks don't win it this year, I hope Ottawa does.

The Sens with a legittimate chance how can a team have a legitimate chance when they are totally unproven in the playoffs

I thought Prusek was the Ottawa backup, and yes, he has seemed to outplay Lalime on many occasions. I still think that they are going to have a tough time getting past the Leafs again. Their edgyness always seems to get the best of Ottawa, even though I feel that Ottawa is the more skilled team. And now that Mogilny is coming back, its only going to get tougher.

exactly the leafs know play-off hockey and the Sens add old tough guys like Rob Ray and Simpson, I don't know about Ottawa having the more skilled team, they have some good players but not on the level that the Leafs do, but I also am biased towards Toronto.

He is, I just had a brain fart.

Perhaps their defense is bad, but when you have a goalie putting up stats like this:

Dan Cloutier
Last 5 Games 2-3-0 GAA: 2.52, Save%: .894

Feb 5 (@ NJD) 0.00, 1.000

Feb 11 (CGY) 3.04, .897

Feb 13 (ATL) 4.04, .778

Feb 16 (@ COL) 0.00, 1.000

Feb 19 (@ MIN) 10.34, .600


...I think I'd make a move for a new goalie. But, you know, I like to see my team advance to the second round, whereas you may not. ;)

you can't really judge a goalies performance based on 5 games, you can't say we better trade for a goalie we've only won 2 of the last 3. It's a 5 game stretch and threre is still a whole lot of hockey left to play before the playoffs. Although Clouthier is a little shakey at times Kolzig isn't exactly going to take the Canucks to the promised land.

In the playoffs, one certainly can judge a goalie on a 5 game performance. Good luck with Cloutier.

yes in the playoffs you can judge a goalies performance in 5 games but the last time I checked this wasn't the playoffs. And did Clouthier not have back-to-back shutouts going into last nights game against Minni. even if he did only win 2 of his last 5 the 2 wins being shut-outs makes up for a lot.

I agree. I think it's unfair to base a goalie's performance over a 5 game stretch. And I think Clouts has got something to prove this year. People blame Clouts for the game 7 loss against the Wild but I don't at all. I believe he should've had the 3rd goal (and winning), but for the 1st, 2nd and 4th were puck luck and sloppy D.

Vancouver is a goalie graveyard. Look at poor Felix Potvin, he was a star until he came here. And how many of our former goalies are now starters elsewhere in the league? That being said, I've been anti-Cloutier for years now and can't wait until we get a real goalie who can handle a puck.

So your opinion os biased from the start about Clouthier he's fine give him a break we could bring back Darren Pang to play for the Canucks, and Potvin is doing fine in Boston so I wouldn't say he isn't a STAR NOW.

Potvin is a back-up to Raycroft now.

Snow is considered a backup but plays pretty as much as Dipietro.

Kevin Weekes is now a starter for sad ass Carolina.

Corey Hirsch? Bob Essensa? Peter Skudra?

Sean Burke seems to be one of the few goalies that is actually considered a starter but I barely consider him a Canuck seeing that he was only with the organization for about 12 games or so.

*edit* funny thing is that the second anyone mentions Cloutier's name, the thread automatically becomes one about the playoffs. Check out the Canucks forum and you'll see like 83749832749823 threads about Cloutier and the playoffs. :lol:

Ya those fancy stats are great but where did I say that Vancouver wasn't a goalie graveyard, oppps I didn't, remember this thread when the play-offs roll around and suddenly there isn't any room on the bandwagon. My friends tell me I have a players view on the game because I played for 22 years and that is why most people can't understand that one player doesn't make a difference and they think a goalie or a high scoring winger is the answer to all prayers, but it never has been and never will be.

Oh yeah I have no desire to check out any forums on Clouthiers play-off performance, I probably feel the same way, as he does who cares. Insults and crap drip off hockey players backs it just doesn't affect us.

I'm the guy everyone's always bitching at for pointing out Cloutier's major screwups, especially during the playoffs :D So while I'm constantly on the Canucks' bandwagon, never, EVER been on Cloutiers. And again, trading a few stocks on the internet does not make one a stock market expert.

And I have to point out exceptions to the insults dripping off hockey players' backs, both Bertuzzi and Jovo have lashed out at the press and fans, Jovo doing it just the other day when he called up a radio show and lambasted some guy for calling the Canucks a bunch of clowns ;)

Wow a couple of people jump on the press I was actually talking about people criticizing them sorry should of put that in, but I see nothing wrong with players criticizing the media they do it to them all the time, hell even I've done it more than 5 times. Oh yeah and me playing pro hockey , and in the OHL, and the QMJHL, ya it does make me an expert on the game

I liked it when Jovo lashed out at the callers on the radio when the team was called a bunch of clowns. It shows that he cares for this team and defends the them for their effort every night.

exactly the media should have more of this done I know I had a few arguments with reporters when they'd put my teams down, the comments from the fans was what i was talking about when i said it drips off thier backs

It was a fan on a call in radio show that he lambasted, not the hosts, so you still wrong about fan criticism not mattering. And your statement was "Insults and crap drip off hockey players backs it just doesn't affect us." so you were generalizing across all hockey players, so two cases disproves your statement anyways.

That aside I'm totally not saying it's a bad thing Jovo called in, I thought it was awesome that he'd do something like that.

Aaaand another example, some guy in Singapore works 30 years soldering chips onto a circuitboard, it doesn't make him an electronics expert. It means he knows about a small segment of electronics related to his job, but not necessarily how to design, etc, you know?

no offence dude but keep your little ending statements to yourself as they contribute absolutely nothing to the conversation, my experience playing the game actually has some bearing on the conversation.

How the hell am I supposed to know it was a fan you said a "guy" that could be taken as the host the co-host anyone do you think I get Vancouver sports call-in shows where I live. Yes I realized that I should of clarified that it was the fans comments that I was talking about which is what I thought I did in the post before yours or did you not notice that? here it is again:
There did you see it this time. or is that not clear enough?

You keep saying experience overrules all, and it doesn't, I'm giving you examples of situations where experience doesn't mean that someone has knowledge, in the hopes that you'll eventually understand that. While your experiences do have some relevance to the topic, they are not the be all and end all of hockey, as they are YOUR experiences, and others, even among those that play hockey, will have had different. Therefore when you say that something is ABSOLUTE based just on your experience, it is a flawed argument and lacks cogency. When I point out stats, they are FACT.

ok so the person who sits there and reads stats knows more than the person who has actually been in a game man what planet are you on your basically an armchair quarterback what you are comparing to hockey for experience is useless as they are 2 different things I have never said anything is absolute as you put it I am merely stating things as they went during my experiences your fancy stats don't tell you everything and I think you know nothing about this game and your main purpose is to aggitate because you are so clueless about this topic. And how can you say that me having experience gives me no knowledge about this subject, at least thats what I interprut from the first sentence of your post, man a person who has played the game his whole life is going to have more knowledge than someone who reads about something, I don't care if it's some dude in Singapore soldering shit or a fuckin hooker giving blowjobs, I'd take the head from the hooker with the experience than from the one who read about it. see I can use your little comparrisson's as well. I have never claimed to be the be all end all of hockey but trust me man I do have more knowledge than the likes of you, your facts don't always tell everything and if you go by just stats then you are missing a large portion of the game try and learn the little intricacies of the game, and not just read box scores. You're probably one of those guys who believes a team will lose if they haven't won on the 6th Saturday of the year and the moon is half and they are wearing white socks, all those stupid little stats that people like me see and say that's for those people who are clueless to believe.

May I just say that I still think Cloutier sucks?

Please continue your argument. :)

Not an argument just trying to get an armchair quarterback to realize that experience counts for more than reading the box scores over a bowl of Lucky Charms, while he was out there eating cereal and whatever I was actually getting knocked around and learning the game. I've read 30 some books on Vietnam, does that mean I know more than the Vet who was there because if I go by bigbads way of thinking anything that I read I must have more experience than the person who was actually there and doing something.

When the play-offs come throw all the stats away. It's a whole new game and anything can happen. Not to mention the players would have gained some experience from earlier downfalls.

For fucks sake look at Anahiem last year, who would of thought the 8th seed would make it to the playoffs. :(

Now the Blues fire Quenneville.

As a Blues fan, I think this move was necessary as the team appeared lackadaisical and they need a change.

Any opinion on the move (along with Phoenix's change) from other Blues or non-Blues fans?

Both teams needed a coaching change they were playing sub par hockey for awhile now and you can't fire the whole team so you need a scapegoat, did Phoenix hire Bowness on the interm or full time?
any team can beat any team on any night that is the great part of this game, the play-offs are where the real players come to play and the europeans try and find a safe hiding place

Blues fan here...

I had a discussion the other day with a few friends of mine concerning the Blues recent woes and told them I'd be surprised if Coach Q lasted the regular season. They chastised me for giving up saying that he's always been able to rally the troops in the past (except for in the playoffs). Unfortunately it looks like I was right. There was something about this recent slide that just didn't mirror the problems of the past. Watch the games, you could almost see the apathy on most of the players faces. Quenneville had lost the attention and direction of the team. It's not that the players lost respect for him, they just stopped listening.

So while I personally think Quenneville is a great coach and hate to see him go I do think it was the right move.

Sometimes a coach has been in one place for so long that it is just time for a change, that happened with a coach I had before but I am no longer allowed to discuss my experiences, some people don't appreciate it, so I will leave it at that. I wouldn't want to sound like an "oracle" of hockey.hahaha

oh maaan.. grow up, ya big baby.

Either you don't have a firm grasp of the English language and therefore misinterpreted what I said, or you're just being plain dumb about it now.

And please.. get my name out of your sig. Thanks.

no problem dude but don't accuse me of being something I never said I was,

and by the way don't take this the wrong way or get pissy but where the hell does an Aussie learn about hockey anyway?

I'm not Australian.. I'm here for school only.
Calgary is where I call home.

Cool bet you're enjoying the heat there more than the cold in Calgary

Since you are obviously not grasping any of the simple concepts I'm trying to get you to understand I'm not going to bother wasting my time after this post. For your war analogy, you may know tactical decisions better than the average Vietnam vet who has not studied them, yes. They of course know more about the actual shooting and such, but it was the guys who had studied tactics that had the higher ranks and the guys who had studied tactics that gave the orders. If you still cannot get a handle on this I'm afraid your ignorance is too much for me to overcome.


Anyone else notice Cloutier almost flub ANOTHER Detroit shot from their blue line the other night? I was laughing my ass off, it was great :D Daniel was the mother fucking man!

Perhaps, the name Cloutier could become synonymous with the word horrible or the term "extreme-suckiness." This, of course, would be much in the same way the name Munson became a derogatory name in the bowling world after the movie "Kingpin."

Good thing they have the Sedin twins.

lets go red wings. nice trade today!!!!

Do they have the biggest pay roll per year yet?

Trust me I know nothing more than a Vet of any war because they were there, and there is no better knowledge than firsthand, grasp that concept.