The Ashes
 

Now that England and Australia are out of the Pyjama Cup, for us concentration on the real business of the summer can begin.

I predict England 2 - Australia 1

The Australian bowling attack if not what it was, and as good as some of their batsmen are on the nice flat tracks they have out there, on a real cricket wicket its a bit different. Since the last Ashes how many of their top boys have they lost? Hayden, Gilchrist, Langer (an especially greedy batsmen), Warne, McGrath, Martyn...

Of course they have new guys coming through who are world class, but some of these boys have not yet been tested in the pressure of war.


England Expects...

I think the Oz test squad looks ok:

Australia Test Squad | The Ashes - England v Australia 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Ricky Ponting
Michael Clarke
Stuart Clark
Brad Haddin
Nathan Hauritz
Ben Hilfenhaus
Phillip Hughes
Michael Hussey
Mitchell Johnson
Simon Katich
Brett Lee
Andrew McDonald
Graham Manou
Marcus North
Peter Siddle
Shane Watson

I'd think the likely Test lineup would be:
Hughes
Katich
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Watson
Haddin
Johnson
Hauritz
Clark
Hilfenhaus

I'm most worried about Hussey and his recent form with the bat, than any of the bowlers, though spin bowling is obviously a weakness.

Hopefully Lee won't get a start - his test figures in England are atrocious for a spearhead (averages about 45 per wicket).

I know Brett Lee's cousin (and Shane Lee's cousin I guess!)

we shouldn't pick them for the test either :)

they'd probably do a better job than average 45!

im quite upset mcgill couldnt make it..any other time, he would have been the worlds best legspinner

Mr Cricket will be playing. One of the strength's of the AUS team is that they pick their world class players even if they have a dip in form (the one exception maybe being Damien Martyn)

Lee is a strike bowler, and still quick, so I think he'll play where pitches suit raw pace. He's always been a great athlete who hasnt quite fulfilled his potential.

I look at that team and see a team who has lost a lot of leaders and a lot of stars.

__

Unfortunately the disasterous sacking of KP as captain has weakened England badly also... but if we can pull it together we have a chance against the most untested Australian team of a generation.

England team:

Strauss
Cook
Bell
Peterson
Bopara
Collingwood
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Sidebottom
Panasear

that's called being born at the wrong time. His last test series vs the windies was a disaster, at which point he retired. Macgill was a world class bowler in his prime, but unfortunately his prime almost perfectly mirrored Warne's.

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

That's a pretty deep batting order. Is Flintoff the only one likely to bowl a lot of overs? The line up seems a bit 'bat heavy' to me.

Collingwood would need to put his overs in with that line up, but I am basically playing Flintoff as a bowler (who can bat a bit)

I dont think he justify's his place as an allrounder, but if he is fit he is a decent bowler who can bat (same as Broad). If Flintoff isnt uo to bowling 25 overs an innings I'd bring in Jimmy Anderson and Prior and Broad each go one up the order.

I have never agreed with picking 5 mainline bowlers. 4 bowlers (and a few overs from Colly and KP) should be plenty

I think Anderson is a given - one of your batsmen will go, IMO.

My lineup is already stuffed - Shane Watson is going for scans on a knee. If this guy could stay injury free he'd have played a lot more games for Oz than he has - just so injury prone :(

Seems like Lee has bowled himself into first test contention. Now it comes down to whether we take a spinner who has zero wickets in the leadup games (and a crap load of runs against) or a 4th paceman. I'd suspect the odds are for the 4th paceman, with the spin to come from North, Clarke and Katich.

Weird when you don't take a front line spinner into a supposedly spin friendly ground, but our spin stocks are really low.

In some respects we are paying for the dominance of Warne over such a long time.

Well, a definite surprise at the selection table by Oz. I really didn't expect Hauritz to play, but kinda assumed Clark would get a run in the place of Hilfenhaus (who from all accounts bowled quite well).

Once again we've seen Ponting's poor captaincy probably let England get away from us a bit, but I'd say the honours are close to shared - England probably in a slighty better position at the end of day 1.

OK - things look bad. 2 down.

But what really gets to me is the negativity of the media and supporters. A draw is still gettable here, and yet as soon as things look bad some people seem to revel in it.

Im hearing peole talk about 5-0 to Aus. A draw is VERY achievable - esp with rain on the cards tomorrow, and this is the first match.

brilliant! Aussies couldnt take 20 wickets!

we almost had you guys...

There's no exclamation mark goes down in the record books(!)

Aussies were on top most of the game sure - but some strange captaincy at the end there from Punter (bowling North at the death) and some resolute batting from our tail.

England couldn't take 10, so I'm not too disappointed

Proof that God is an Englishman.

oh well, we'll have to settle for 4-0 instead of 5-0

England was lucky to hand on. the only bright part of it was englands first day. the rest belonged to the aussies

but didnt all the doubts about these young Australians readiness for war come rushing back to the surface at the end? What was it, 11 overs Monty held out - with 2 gentl overs from Marcus North

They have a good batting line up, sure... but the weakness was always the bowling.

Get these flat track bullies on a pitch where it swings a little and you might see some difference in the Aussie batting performance. Even better get Harmy back and in amongst them. They dont like it up em!

We cant take anythinbg as a given - the Aussies pride will be badly hurt and they will want to come back strong, but the last two sessions were an absolutely huge momentum swing to England.

When the sun was shining the Aussies scored well and the England attack seemed bereft of idea's - but as John Madden says 90% of sport is half mental - maybe in the Aussie team some will be looking around a their colleaugues wondering now if the man besides them really has the stomach for a fight.

lets be honest here. cricket is the only game where you can dominate for 5 days straight and still come up with a draw.

the aussies were hard done by i think. the rules need to change

Trebles for show, doubles for dough!

You win matches by bowling a team out twice, and if you cant do it you dont win!

Harmison has been added to the english squad, supposedely as cover for Flintoff, who injured his knee. I reckon he will be straight in, even if Flintoff plays. One of the spinners for England will be gone.

I think (apart from Collingwood), the first test can be summed up mostly as poor batting from England, rather than good bowling from Oz. I'd much rather have our batting lineup than yours, and we are heading to our home ground (Lords) where England hasn't won an ashes test since 1934. Come on Thursday!!

still doesnt mean that the best team wins. just means that the worse team gets equal share. doesnt make sense to me.

that's sport. The Aussie speed skater (Steven Bradbury) proved you can win even if you aren't the best. I'd suggest that England will be relieved they escaped the first test, but well aware they were completely outclassed. Not for a minute am I suggesting that Oz played better therefore should get the match - that sounds far to American for me - the beauty/charm of cricket is that it is time limited and a draw is a valid result.

time limited? like 5 days isnt enough huh? i dont know many team sports (except maybe yaching - sydney to hobart races and its ilk) that last 5 days. at least theres a winner in the sydney to hobart yacht race!

as for mr bradbury..i remember watching that live and was stoked that he won. but thats the way the dice fell. its the same in cycling in the tour de france when you have a stack up at the very line.

test cricket is different, so you cant compare it to chance plays partly due to the length of game.

i think every test match needs a decision. i may be pushing the buttons of those traditionalists. they'd probably be turning in their grave as i speak when i say that one day and 20-20 cricket is the way of the future

To me 20-20 is just a joke. Its good fun to watch and play (and I played 20 20 as a youth cricketer so its nothing new)

But it cant be compared to test cricket.

The Ashes is the most important tour for any Australian or English cricketer. It is one of the greatest competitions in sport.

The fact that winning and not losing a cricket match are very different things are part of what makes it one of the great games. To me - watching a dogged number 10 and 11 desperately trying to preserve their wickets as the fielders circle in around then is far more exciting than watching world class cricketers wildly slog and flail at the ball like schoolboys while wearing multicoloured pyjama's

heathen!! I think we need to organise a stoning.

---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------

amen to this. Hats off to England here - especially after lunch on the last day - Collingwood and the tail batting 2 sessions to save a game is a great effort. They deserve the draw/not to lose the game.

Off topic - it kinda pisses me off that the NRL introduced 'golden point' extra time for club matches. I think a lot of teams are gutted - being equal after full time and getting nothing because someone kicks a field goal in extra time. I'd rather both teams got a point and moved on. A draw/tie is an acceptable result in sport.

oh come on..who doesnt enjoy shahid afridi smash the ball around a bit eh? i saw him here in dubai a few weeks ago demolish the aussies with his bowling. the crowd went absolutely beserk!

sure he's not the test cricketing type, but id rather watch him than say Atherton or Lamb.

spins..ill be in sydney in a week. when are you organising the witch hunt?

sure, 20/20 can be exciting.

As much as I didnt enjoy it, Yuvraj giving Stuart Broad six of the best was absolutely thrilling to watch (and remember thinking "for fuck's sake Freddie, dont say anything else to piss him off more!"

But it doesnt come close to the real thing in terms of what it means and as sporting spectacle.

Well, the Aussies have a hell of a fight on their hands to save this... if the weather holds out I cant see any way they can win this, or hold on for a drawer.

i havent been watching but ive been listening to updates on the radio.

we fell into a heap.

im just wondering why the english didnt ask the aussies to follow-on. it seems strange to me. is it because the pitch is deteriorating and they wanted to get a few more runs on the board instead of batting on the final day?

Straussy made the decision based on the weather... today was perfect batting conditions and tomorrow is forecast to be overcast. Time will tell if a brilliant decison, or another example of over conservative tactics.

I've added new quote to my signature, and am tempted to temporarily use a photo of the Doctor as my avatar!

Last week aftr day 4 people were talking about a 5-0 defeat, about England fcing humiliation... the Aussies know now they are in a fight, a really tough fight... and the weakness in their team is the one I suspected of it right from the start, they just dont have the bowling attack that they did a few years ago.

I hope English fans dont get carried away... Punter is one of the batsmen of his generation, and Clarke and Hussey are great players - this is still a batting line up to fear, but I dont reckon your boys are talking about 4-0 right now.

Well, I've been away for the last week. I started watching day 5 with a tiny sliver of hope that last 10 balls. As soon as Haddin was out, then the Aussies faint flicker of a chance at victory disappeared.

Johnson showed that he is handy with the bat but this test has again highlighted the weakness of our bowling line up. Johnson will hold his place (as he is a fantastic bowler), but is obviously in a bit of a slump. I wouldn't be surprised with North making way for either Watson or McDonald. Both played well in the just completed tour match. I also would not be surprised if Clark comes in for North and Haddin batted at 6. At least that would strengthed our weak bowling.

Hauritz showed he is an able bowler at Test level - he is no Warne, but then few can say they are?

---------- Post added at 09:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------

Also, I'm thinking England might be stronger without Pieterson. My viewing of his batting in the first couple of tests made me think his injury wasn't helping him. It will also be interesting to see how Flintoff goes through the rest of the series.

Everyone talks about Johnson did against South Africa, but his bowling action just isnt right... I certainly hope they pick him over Clark... because Clark is a bowler I fear a lot more.

__

And I cant say KP wont be missed, because whatever baggage comes with him he is simply the best batsmen in English cricket. Would have prefered to see Rob Key in to replace him than Bell though. If KP had been fit I wonder if Bopara would have been dropped and Key would have been the natural replacement at 3.

The Aussies can bat, we all know that. They need to prove they can take 20 English wickets now.

News reports are suggesting Watson will come in for Hughes. I'd find it weird if they do it - having an allrounder open in internationals is not that common. I wonder if his technique is good enough for the rigours of opening the batting.

I suspect Clark will come in for Siddle and Johnson will bowl first change rather than with the new ball. I see Watson as a way to strengthen the bowling as well. Only 7 or so hours until the line ups are officially announced.

haha - I wouldnt call Watson and allrounder after seeing him bowl today! I'd be more worried about facing Punter's off spin.

Match interestingly poised... draw still looks like the most likely result.

England just put the 300 up, 6 down.

Oz are in serious trouble - really need to bat through day 5 to save this one.

An interestingly poised match... it looks like there can only be one winner, but England will have to rip through the rest of the Aussies very quickly this morning!

aussies are having serious bowling issues not being able to finish off the english tail.

it seems like even the once formidable batting line up is falling to bits. aussies at 2-88 with another day to go on a turning wicket. i can only see a draw or an english victory.

oh how things have changed.

3 tests

0 times Ausralia have taken English wickets

Its two decent batting line ups and poor bowling line ups matching up.

You'd have to think Stuart Clark is a shoe in for the next game. Johnson bowled better in this game and I'd expect Siddle would be the one to miss out. Guessing what the heck the Oz selectors are going to do is a bit of a fools game, so we'll have to wait and see.

ended in a draw and a bit of a relief for the aussies.

the lost day due to rain was a god-send and saved the aussies ass and probably kept some heads from rolling..for the time being.

1-0 coming into game 4 of a best of 5 series...

hmmm - I dunno - aussies were 260 ahead with 5 wickets in hand. Had there not been a lost day, they might've been pushing for a win. Oz in a better position than England at the end.

Still, our inability to dismiss England (tail especially), should be concerning.

the aussies saw the end near, and pressed on. i didnt see them batting for two days, because that would have been their intention had there been an extra day. they've been crumbling under pressure lately, and this wasnt any different.

i only recall one win on the whole tour thus far, so their performance under pressure in concerning. the consistency that we once called upon on a him has eluded us, and our bowling has been intermittant at best. i do believe we are missing a specaliast swing bowling like the likes of damian fleming and a consistant fast bowler..and heck, throw in a consistant spin bowler.

currently we're paying the price for having our team grow old. our problem is that we had too much depth that the younger players never had a chance to make it into the bigtime until they were in their late twenties, which now sadly has shown its ugly head.

what a fucking shambles

too right.. i thought i was watching pakistan play there for a second.

i do hope to see a fightback from the englishmen.

the aussies need to win both tests to keep the boks from taking their #1 ranking.

Another capitulation

It's 1-1 and everything to play for in the last test at least.

Swann and Bopara must be dropped, bring in Monty and Key

without their prized #1 ranking to fight for, i think the aussies may slip to 3-4 on the world rankings.

monty needs to come back...

the last test will be a shamozzle..the poms have everything to play for and will go all out. the aussies will play defensive and slow to aim for the defence of the ashes and will only play aggresive if they sense the victory.

Yep Bopara looks out of place at 3 - should definitely see the Axe. Bringing Harmison in for Flintoff really stuffed the balance of the side too - really bowler heavy. England have been lucky that Prior has actually scored some runs.

Stuart Clark definitely showed his worth and Johnson finally got his line and length right :)

Almost a 2 day test match. The positive for England is that they can't possibly be as bad as that again...

a bit of pride regained this morning... but lets not take too much from it.

a humiliating performance over the first two days.

no more warm ups playing football I hope after Prior's back spasm!

Team for the decider

Strauss
Cook
Key
Ramprakash (yes, seriously)
Collingwood
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Anderson
Onions
Panasaer

Good win by us - finally the bowlers all clicked.

I think England's biggest worry is that Strauss is the only batsman who has really stood up - he would be the only one likely to make the Oz team as a batter. Choosing Harmison as Flintoff's replacement took a weak batting lineup and made it weaker. Broad and Swann are worth some runs, but are mainly there for their bowling - England still need a top six that is better than what they have. Bopara can't possibly survive until the next test. England really are in serious trouble if Flintoff is not fit enough for the last game, but I'm not sure picking a hobbling Flintoff is better than picking someone else that is fully fit. The problem is that England really need his bowling, but also rely heavily on his batting. Tellingly, Prior at #6 is England's second bext batsman in terms of runs scored. Haddin (batting 7 for Oz) is actually averaging more runs than the entire England batting lineup.

Oz have a nice headache to take to the next test - do we stick with the 4 pace bowlers or bring Hauritz back in (who has actually bowled pretty well). I'd suggest they'll stick with the pace attack. Funnily, Lee is now fully fit and won't get a look in. Or do we strengthen our bowling by dropping Hussey and bringing in 5 bowlers?

Bopara has finally got the Axe. It will be interesting to see what the England batting line up is. Assumptions are that Bell and Collingwood will move up to 3 and 4 and Trott will bat at 5.

Oz seems to have the good dilemma of which bowling attack to use, with Lee taking 3 wickets in the tour match. I'd stick with the four pace men (with Lee missing out), unless the wicket looks like a real turner. Second guessing the Oz selectors is a fairly pointless exercise, as they've managed to bamboozle me before each game thus far.

Thursday can't come fast enough!!

You ask what I'm doing? Dancing......a rain dance to be specific :(

i'm doing the same dance. that was dismal by the aussies but credit to the Poms

Its not over yet, but we're in the driving seat!

Glorious weather, no forecast of rain... if the Aussies win this they'll have played the best innings in test history so fair play to them. But I'd rather be in our position right now. Remember my prediction at the start of this thread!!!!

COME ON!!

Never pay any attention to cricket - except during the Ashes. Always good to beat the "old enemy"!

We won, we won, we won.

Hooray! HOO-fuckin-RAY!

c'mon aussie c'mon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we should have lasted at least till the end of play. the last 5 wickets fell cheaply in my opinion. two runouts and a stumping on a wicket like this? what were the aussies thinking! its bad enough as it is just trying to survive.

next time we'll beat you 5-zip again. until next time pommies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oops, I made a mistake in my last post.

I meant to say England 2 - Lostralia 1

:thumbsup:

In all seriousness, it was a tight series between two teams who werent at their best... you really have to question Punter's captaincy... his failure to go for the throat in Cardiff (and some brave batting by Monty) was the difference in the end.

Maybe some decisions didnt go their way, but I dont think there were a LOT of shocking ones... at the end of the day they couldnt consistently take 20 wickets, and thats why England were able to stay in the series and win through in the end.

Punter is a great batsmen, but you have to question him as a captain... not that I care!

I don't necessarily think it was a captaincy issue. I think our bowling was generally poor. We might have the bowlers that took more wickets, but they were obviously expensive, and there really is no excuse for the horrid batting collapses.

I really question our selectors
- how do they justify Watson as the 'spare' batsman? His numbers just don't justify this position and he has a serious technical issue with getting out lbw. There are heaps of better batsmen than Watson that didn't make the touring squad. His position (if anywhere) is as a lower order batsman who bowls a lot of overs. Unfortunately, his bowling looks ordinary at this level.
- bowling selection. Clark should've played earlier, but maybe shouldn't have played in the last test at all. It is amazing that Oz have a frontline spinner and didn't choose him for this last game...

In reality, though, Oz aren't the side they were with Langer, Hayden, Martyn, Warne and McGrath. I think it is going to take us a fair amount of time to get out of the wilderness. Our ranking is now 3, and will be 4 if Sri Lanka beat NZ (as expected).

Maybe Ponting is not the best captain, but Oz has never been a country to cut a captain. He really has the job until he retires. He would need to really lose form to be dropped and while there are hints that his batting is no longer at its peak, he is hardly struggling.

All credit to England - Trott played well on debut - maybe you guys just need to drafta from more saffers and you'll be world beaters ;) (seriously, I am joking - he qualifies for England and you pick the best you can...)

Well done to England - can you hold onto the urn for us until 2010/11 Summer?

We'll stop poaching SA as soon as you guys stop poaching Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, etc for half-decent rugby players!

Point taken.

OT, but rugby really is a free for all. I read somewhere that at the last world cup South Africa was the only pure home grown rugby side. I don't remember the source...

The ashes really was a yawn fest - any sport where a little light drizzle can win you the match is not a sport in my book!