Baseball 2009
 

Well I guess no time like the present to start a new baseball thread.

No one has touched the last one for almost 10 days, we had a couple Spring games today.......THANKS FOR BEING BLACKED OUT NEW MLB NETWORK....damn Indians V. Giants game on so Ohio doesn't get to see the MLB Network during the game today.

Dodgers have given Manny a new offer to look over, this one in the 2 year 45mil range, which is a little less in years and money than he wanted but close to the 3 years 25+/year he was looking to get.

Manny will sign with the Dodgers. There nobody else out there who wants him. So unless he just doesn't want to play this year..he'll be in blue.

I'm kind of surprised nobody from the AL even really looked at him. I mean a team could just shove him in the DH position and not worry about his fielding.. they would just have his numbers at the play to enjoy.

I think him going back to LA isn't a bad move really, but they are going to be sharing time again with those young OF'ers

Kemp, Pierre and Ethier already set, one of them is going to have to split time with Manny.

I love being a Sox fan, because everything they do will absolutely be on NESN unless it's nationally televised. So no having to deal with MLB Network!!

Manny didn't really get a look anywhere else because nobody wants to pay him. LAD is the only team that is willing to throw him the money he wants. Honestly, I think Pierre suffers the most from this deal. I think Ethier has a much higher ceiling than Pierre, and Pierre is going to have the worst numbers out of the lot of them, so his time should see a cut.

On a side note, something about Boof Bonser being out for the season already? I thought I saw something but haven't really heard much since.

Dunno about Boof, but I just seen that Milton Bradley already left a game with tightness in his quad?

Could just be early spring kinks, but like I said in the 2008 thread, they paid a lot of money for a guy who won't make it the year as an everyday OF

So I just woke up and got a text message from ESPN saying Manny has rejected the Dodgers 2 year 45mil offer.

What a shock, really. Boras is an utter fool at this point if he really expects to get Manny 25mil AND 3+ years.

I don't see anyone picking him up at this point, we are into spring games and teams are going to want to get those lineups worked out.

Also just read that Nomar is looking to join the A's or retire.....please retire. They already have one 3B who cannot stay healthy (Chavez) no need to bring in another one, especially one who probably was on steroids and can't stay healthy anymore.

I'm not so sure Manny even knows what deals are out there. I mean..can he really be this stupid?? The new offer had an option to opt out after the first year and become a free agent. WTF??

Boras is a good agent, but he's trying to force an issue that isn't there on this one. He keeps saying there are 6 or 7 teams in the mix and they seem to be invisible. The yanks don't want him.. so really.. LA is the only other team (other than the cubs and boston and we know that isn't going to happen) that can afford him.

Maybe I should start burning all my manny memorbilia.

Just seen a note about Boof Bonser, exploratory surgery found tears in his labrum and rotator cuff.

so it looks like Manny isn't so dumb after all.. looks like the Dodgers are to blame for the newest disaster. They said 2 years at 45 million but it was 10 million for '09 10 mil for '10 (if player option picked up and then 10 mil for '11 and '12 and 5 mil for '13.

Now if I was a player I would take deferred money but the kicker in all of this is that the dodgers said there would be no interest. So yeah that is kind of crappy. Plus Boras and Manny said yes to the contract at first because they thought it was 45 mil guaranteed for 2 years but it ends up they may have been trying to screw him after all

I saw somewhere that deferred money was part of every Manny offer from the Dodgers.

Methinks they really screwed up here, because they look like liars here.

Anyone watching the "30-in-30" shows on MLB Network? I watched tonight because they were discussing the Orioles (for 59:30 longer than ESPN will the entire rest of spring training :rolleyes:), and I really liked their format, with the interviews and discussions.

Plus, I got the added bonus of calling Harold Reynolds a moron and a genius within ten minutes of each other! :lol: (Going from saying Melvin Mora is a good base stealer/runner (he sucks on the bases) to saying Matt Wieters should start from day one (as opposed to leaving him in AAA for contract reasons).)

the only thing I've watched on MLB network was that series they had on the red sox.. most of it I agreed with but some was eh..debatable.

Was like 3 hours long..

This recent contract I've heard of the options format since it came out. The original 2 yr/$45 mil - I don't think was broken up into many options, maybe an option for a 3rd year but was mostly upfront. Now if I, Joe Spectator, had heard that it was broken up before the contract pitch was accepted then swiftly rejected, one would think that Scott Boras, agent of all agents, would read the damn fine print. What are you trying to sink a ship in this economy? Enjoy watching Opening Day from the couch, Maneulito, or start questioning your agent if you REALLY want to play baseball.

So f'n what if the money is deferred at no interest, it is a hell of a lot more money than any other team has right now. Sure, there may be several "interested" team but not for $20M+. Teams don't go into spring training with $20M to spare. It's obvious that the Dodgers also don't have the money.

After all the stunts he pulled to get out of Boston, Manny doesn't deserve shit. There should have been disciplinary action against him.

Manny will sign eventually, but this is a great way to miss out on Spring Training which he loaths anyhow. We will get to watch Manny be happy and productive for a while, BUT he is a ticking time bomb. The Dodgers should know this and don't everyone else does.

a team like the dodgers needs manny's bat..that's the whole deal. They have good young talent but manny can wake up and hit 40 with his eyes shut.

Griffey will put some new life into the Seattle clubhouse and the fans will cheer again in Seattle. Not sure if he will make them much better, but having him back will help. I think he still has some good years as long as he stays healthy.

Agreed. I think he'll be on the good side of 20/80 with a revitalizing Seattle scenery to make him feel young again. Hopefully he spends some time DH as well so he doesn't wear out over the course of the season.

I'd love to see The Kid become The Man again back in his real home, but I think he'll end up on the DL much of the year. He'll hit when he can, though.

On a side note, I really can't wait to do fantasy baseball. Let's just draft NOW!! Also expand rosters, especially if we only end up with 10 teams as it is now instead of the 12 that I think you had last year.

Just a little nugget... you know it's a slow news day when stuff like this comes up but: Curt Schilling points to Rays, Cubs when discussing possible comeback - ESPN

Schilling mulling playing again. Sure he only puts it at 20% so this shouldn't be a big deal, but let me give a word of advice. DON'T DO IT!! Just hang up your bloody socks, and go blogging.

Schilling needs to stick to Everquest.

I am curious though if Paul Byrd will draw any interest from a team mid-season and if Schilling would be trying to do something like that. I am not a Byrd fan by any means, but Schilling wanting a comeback could kinda be like the Clemens deal, sign with a contender or whoever pours the most money his way come All-Star break time.

Looks like Oaktown picked up SS Orlando Cabrera and 3B Nomar Garciparra. I like these moves. Sure they're older, but hell, it will give the young'n's time to build themselves without getting crushed at the big league level. And as a Red Sox fan, I have to...


NOHMAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I like Cabrera over Crosby at SS without a doubt, not a bad deal money wise either. I don't like giving up a 2nd round and supplemental 1st rounder too much but the A's usually do decent in the draft and make smart moves when they get young players or picks from other teams.

Nobody talking about Manny agreeing in principle to 2 years $45 mil with the dodgers??

Guess nobody is surprised by this. It was pretty much take it or leave it at this point

I'm just glad it's over with. Maybe I'm still a little sour but, hey who cares.

A-Roid....er Afraud....errr Alex Rodriguez is having surgery to repair the torn labrum in his hip and is expected to miss 6-10 weeks and STILL has to have surgery at the end of the season for the issue with the cyst and make sure everything is in order.

Could this be one of those things that just crops up, or do you think this is the start of his body breaking down from the steroids?

Who knows. I think it would be an amazing coincedence if it happened to be from the roids. I know it says he's going to be out only at most for 10 weeks... but if the surgery doesn't do what it's supposed to he'll end up like Mike Lowell and he'll be out for months and months.

Come on... I've been trying to forget this. Let's not talk about it.

Hey he's on the comeback trail..supposed to play tuesday. Anyway, aren't we all hoping that A-Roid misses months??

He's out 6-9 weeks. And yes, I would love the guy to be out for longer. But, I do not believe he will ever be the same. Too much pressure, people are going to heckle him more, I just think we are seeing the end of Afraud.

Hopefully. Most people don't want to see him break the home-run record now. He already sucks in the postseason because of the pressure during October. Imagine how he'll be now.

my comeback trail comment was directed towards Mike Lowell..

;)

yeah, I should have just put the second half in there, the A-Roid missing months bit. I know there are lots that are hoping that he's missing a whole lot more than months.

Just a reminder that the TFP fantasy baseball league draft is tonight at 9pm Eastern.

I'll bring the chips. Draft party?

Curt Schilling retires today... Goodnight sweet prince.

As per last year, I'll be mostly staying out of this topic. But I just have to pop in and say that my Angels are kicking some serious ass in pre-season... as of today 22-5! I know pre-season is just that, but promising nonetheless. And they actually picked up another LHP! :eek:

I'm worried about my Tribe... Hafner has no timing or power, Martinez is lacking power, Lee is pitching like shit..... it's going to be a long Summer if they don't get their shit together. Kansas City looks like the surprise team in the AL Central.

The Reds on the other hand may be a surprise team. If the pitching can be strong and Tavares truly does set a table, they could make a run at the wildcard (the Cubbies should have the Central locked up) and have a better record than any NL West team.

Other predictions....

I see the Skanks falling apart, I think the AL East will be: Tampa and Bosux battling first and second, Tampa was no fluke and may have the best young team in baseball... Their youth tho could be their downfall.... NY a disppointingly surprise third, Toronto and Baltimore fighting each other to to stay out of the basement.

AL Central: Wide open what used to be arguably the best division has been relegated to cash poor teams and management that is trying but taking serious gambles (youth in KC and Minnesota, reclamation projects in Cleveland and the elderly in Detroit and Chicago). Cleveland could run away with it if everyone plays to their talent level especially if Wood, Pavano, Hafner, Martinez and Carmona can stay healthy all season. If they play decent, they'll fight KC for 1 and 2... Detroit and Chicago will fight for last unless the Tribe totally falls apart and Minnesota will finish third.

AL West: it's going to be a very tough year for all 4 teams there. The Rangers have OFFENSE galore but no pitching. The Angels had a great preseason, I just don't see them really doing much during the season .... those are 2 will finish 1 and 2 solely because Seattle and Oakland totally suck and both teams may finish with 100 loss seasons.

The NL East maybe the tightest and most best division out of the 6, definitely in the NL. This could be anyone's division and all 5 teams will probably have winning records over all the West teams and even possibly the Central save for the Cubs and Possibly Cincy. I'm just going to guess here and rank them because this division is talented and wide open. NY, Wash, Philly, Atlanta and Fla. (watch that be the only division I get right and solely because I randomly chose.

The NL Central: The Cubbies will run away with it, quite possibly the best team in baseball this year. IF my Reds play to their talent, they could be the most surprising team in all of baseball this year and be second place. With the East teams beating each other up, the Reds could sneak into the race and take the wildcard. Houston, will actually overtake St. Louis this season, I like their SP a lot.... Oswalt is an ace anywhere, I'm really high on Wandy Rodriguez, Hampton could have a comeback year before retirement with Lee and Berkman knocking in Matsui, Pence and possibly Bourn they may score enough runs to let their SP keep them in the game, the problem lies in their bullpen... the RP won't be able to hold those leads. St Louis will be fourth, they just don't have a team direction right now, they have no pitching, other than Pujols their offense is hurting and they can't even really name a closer. Pitt and Milwaukee, they'll fight for 5 and last. Even IF the Astros pass the Reds, I don't see the Reds falling below 3rd in this division.... they have talent and some players I think that really can handle the pressure this year.

The NL West: This will be a runaway for the DBacks. No other team in the division comes close to their pitching and talented youth. LA is built on unproven SP.... yes, I know these guys stats last year, but that was one year... they may surprise but... LA does have some power and speed on the basepaths and a decent middle infield but Furcal, Blake and Hudson I don't see hitting the way this team will need them to, Martin is an injury waiting to happen, Manny is getting old and is well.... Manny so his fielding and brainfarts will cost a game or 2, not to mention we all know what happens when Manny gets upset with management... second in the division at best or because the other 3 suck worse. San Fran has some decent pitching but seriously? after Lincecum and Cain they got Zito who is an overpaid bum, Big Unit who is getting old, and kids and no offense save for Sandoval and possibly an aging Molina. They have some speed and on base guys but unless their pitching can hold the runs down... this team won't score the runs to win games. Colorado.... is well Colorado without any hitting, they have an interesting SP collection though Cook, Jimenez and Marquis may turn out to be a decent 1-2-3 punch but not enough to compete seriously. San Diego will trade Peavy and Adrian Gonzalez by mid season and finish with 100+ loss season... They may even get rid of Chris Young.... They may go after a record this year the worst record in the modern age of baseball.

The Orioles are going to be a very interesting team. Every offensive projection I've seen suggests that the hitting is going to be top-five in the league. Especially once Matt Wieters comes up; he's being called "Mauer with power", though from the impressions I've getting he sounds more like Mike Piazza plus quality defense, and he completely annihilated single-A and double-A last season (and actually hit better at the higher level). Not that there's any expectations for him around here or anything :lol:

Between Wieters, Markakis and Jones (who a bunch of different national media have called a top breakout candidate), this team will score a lot of runs. Even Cesar Izturis at shortstop is going help the offense: with a mid-.600s OPS, he will be about a hundred points better than the OPS for Baltimore's shortstops last season. And this is with the team making an effort to focus on defense, signing Izturis and trading for Felix Pie as a reclamation project in left field.

The big problem is that the starting pitching is going to blow Roger-Clemens'-tiny-testicles. There are four new starters in the rotation behind Jeremy Guthrie, and only Japanese import Koji Uehara looks like a definite answer beyond this season. The Andy MacPhail Express from Chicago brought in Rich Hill, who looked decent in spring training and is going to be given a chance once he is healthy in a couple weeks, but the other three in the rotation now (Alfredo Simon, Adam Eaton and Mark Hendrickson) are just keeping places warm.

The Orioles have been making a conceited effort to keep their most-talented young pitchers earn their way through the minors the past couple years. Even though Brad Bergesen and Brian Matusz showed in spring training that they probably could hold their own in the majors right now, the team is sending them down, to triple-A and single-A respectively, to earn their promotions.

Hopefully, the young guys down in Norfolk will perform well early on in the season and the team will promote them to give them their chances soon; That Eaton-Hendrickson combo is going to KILL me.

Fortunately, the bullpen is setting up to be pretty good. The back end, with George Sherrill starting the season as closer, former closer Chris Ray coming back strong and last years' surprise Jim Johnson, is very strong.

The Orioles really aren't trying to win this season, but if Wieters is anything near his expectations and a couple of the young pitchers earn early promotions and pitch well in the majors, the O's will win a bunch more games than most expect.

Really, this team could win 70 games and finish last, or they could win 85 games and finish third (or even then likely fourth, with the strength of the division).

It's definitely going to be an interesting season...

AL East will be the big division to watch with a huge 3-team race, but we'll see if the Orioles can put something nice together in the next few years.

A lot of people are tabbing Cincy to be this years' version of the Rays. I can sort-of see it, but the pitching will have to really have a freakishly good year like the Rays got last year, and I'm not sure if I can see that. Offensively, they will rake in the bandbox that is Cinergy Field - but why the hell did they cut Jonny Gomes? That guy could mash. Volquez was a pretty sharp pitcher last year, but lets see if Cueto and company can fill out the rotation. How about Homer Bailey?

Giants could be a decent team - they made a handful of little moves and are hopefully moving out of the Bonds era. I'm excited to see that freak Lincecum have another stellar year.

The Yanks are going to win it though :)

I like the Orioles actually, and they will certainly beat Toronto for 4th in the East. The only thing holding the O's up is their pitching. DJ kind of spelled it all out, really being the O's fan anyways so I'm sure he knows much more than I do, but I would like to see the O's make a trade with Oakland. Oakland has a wealth of young and very talented pitching, so if I were a GM, that's what I'd do.

The O's do too, it's just still coming through the system. And it isn't that far away. There were four guys with double-digit wins and sub-3.6 ERAs at AA last year; all four are starting at Norfolk and one (Bergesen) probably should have made the team out of spring training. Bergesen and Tillman probably will be up by June.

Andy MacPhail has said several times since being hired that his goal in Baltimore is to grow the pitching as much as possible, since quality pitchers are much harder to find at non-exorbitant rates than hitters. So, it's just a waiting game and hoping that for once the Orioles end up on the lucky side of the attrition rates for pitching prospects (or just pitchers, for the TINSTAAPP fans).

Only 40 minutes or so before my beloved Astros begin their new adventure.
*ignores feeling of doom

yay. opening day for Boston gets rained out. :(

Anyone want to buy a slightly used and very scared Brett Myers?

How 'bout them $500 million Yankees? :lol:

:lol: Hope they get used to losing! CC is not a savior.

Wow, almost very ace got blown to Hell today..... Lee, Webb, Halladay, CC, Liriano.

On a plus side Harang looked decent....

Happens every year tho, aces seem to take 1-2 sometimes 3 starts to find their groove, then the hitters start dropping back to reality.

The Mets' bullpen did not collapse under pressure yesterday. It's very refreshing to have a bullpen that won't crush your hopes and dreams.

Just wait; I think Rodriguez is about as overrated as a "closer" can be and will end up disappointing you guys.

The good news is, they also went out for Putz, though it will be interesting to see just how willing he is to go from "closer" in line for the big money in Seattle to a set-up guy in New York, especially if Rodriguez struggles.

Cardinals
 

I am totally loving my new st louis cards closer. dork blew a 2 run lead in the ninth last night. not sure about today's game. havent checked the score yet.

Not an auspicious start. :(



But the Cubs still suck anyway.

well thats to be expected for a cubs fan. we cards fans expect more ;)

How can you say that with a straight face/keyboard? K-Rod earned his nickname and reputation. He's as dominant as closers get. Will he "save" the Mets? Alone, obviously not. Is he a high quality closer? Absolutely, yes. As a Halo fan, I'm unhappy to see a homegrown talent like that leave.

He didn't pitch a meaningful inning last year. I don't think he ever came into a game when it was even within a run.

There's a reason for that, unless he offered Scoscia a cut of his new deal to get him as many cheap "saves" as he could.

I'm not worried about such talk. People said the same thing about Santana last year too.

djtestudo, I'm not sure what that statement is even supposed to mean. Are you suggesting that Scoscia purposely had the offense score less runs so his closer would get more save opportunities? If so, you're delusional. Managers don't give a crap about that sort of thing. Scoscia used K-Rod the same way any other manager uses a closer, 9th inning when ahead by 1-3 runs.

The Astros have clawed their way back to .500!

Stan Kasten Sings a Hymn to Philly Fans - D.C. Sports Bog

You know, I think it's really cute that Washington thinks that it can support it's own baseball team, but can't we just end that experiment already? :lol:

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

Yeah, that's exactly what I said, as long as you mean it isn't anything at all close to what I said :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

I'm sure some people who don't know what they are talking about DID say that last season :p

Angels Starting Pitcher Killed After Ball Game - TMZ.com

Oh my God. What a terrible thing.

jesus christ.

not that being an athlete makes it any worse .. but damn that's quite a turnaround, going from pitching a great game to a coffin. It's always worse when people die before they can realize their potential.

I am actually very upset over this. I had been following him for a couple years now in the minors and this kid is my age. Yahoo reported more recently this afternoon that the driver was over the blood alcohol limit and had been over the limit.

This makes me rage. This morning I was surprised at how upset I was, I basically had tears in my eyes. Angels are my favorite team after the Sox, and though I live in Boston, and I'm a Sox fan, these events go far beyond teams, and even baseball itself.

This is the part that makes me angry. This is showing both ends of the spectrum. How people my age, one on top of the world, a rising superstar achieving so much, can be taken down by someone on the downturn who is totally fucking up their own life. And their indiscretion took down someone who was on top of his own personal game, his life and his dreams.

I can't even begin to imagine how the parents, friends and other family in the organization feel. I was upset and I'm not even connected to him. So all of my thoughts go out to the Adenhart family and Angels organization. Much love, #34.

Yahoo! Sports - Angels rookie Adenhart killed

Apparently both Adenhart and Gallo (the killer) were the same age.

That's amazing.

The driver of the minivan also had a suspended license from an earlier dui.

Honestly, I hope that they retire his number. Having the Sox over there is going to be tough. I was thinking earlier that this will be the first game that I've ever wanted the Sox to lose, but that isn't a right thing to say for the Angels sake. This will be the first game where I am rooting for a team opposing the Red Sox in game, is a much better way to say it. I hope the Angels come out hard and get a WELL deserved victory for #34. RIP.

Exactly what I had expected, and really hoped for. Thank you to the Sox for being so respectful in the wake of this, and thank you to the Angels organization for recognizing #34 in every individual's appropriate way. That was a GREAT game.

Angels return to play with Adenhart on their minds - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

I hope this driver gets a life sentence. I'm not for the death penalty, but there is no excusing what you've done. 3 counts of murder doesn't really encompass what you've done, and you should pray for a swift trial.

Harry Kalas, the long time announcer of the Philadelphia Phillies, died in the broadcast booth before today's Phil's Nat's game in Washington. For anyone who never heard a Phillies broadcast, you would know him as the guy who did the voice over work for NFL Films.

CSNPhilly.com - Remembering Harry Kalas


I actually cried a few different times today for a guy I never met. Even though I never met him I do have one great memory of him from just recently. My sister met him this spring at Clearwater FL. She got him on the phone to talk to my mom and my mom thought it was my sisters boyfriend impersonating him. So my mom called Harry Kalas a jackass. He took it well and actually got a good laugh out of it.

I don't even know what to say other than it's a sad day in baseball.

Kalas AND Mark Fydrich died today.

Two legends of the sport, though for different reasons.

Pan.. it's early. There are quite a few "experts" who have picked the Indians to come out of the AL. Some have picked Sizemore for the AL MVP as well.

I know they always start slow but damn.... 2-7 and the pitching looks horrid. These slow starts do nothing to help ticket sales.

If they finish above 500, I could see Sizemore making the run for MVP.

I actually love the Royals as a surprise team in the Central. Also Minnesota has been roughed up a pit, but I think their rotation is secretly outstanding. Everyone is a great control pitcher, and that is what will keep them going I think.

Sox come back from being down 7-0 to win. Good thing the Orioles have resolved their pitching problems.

We scored eight on you guys, though ;)

And I will let everyone know I am willing to take converts to The One and Holy True Church of Markakism.

Cleveland Indians vs. New York Yankees - Box Score - April 18, 2009 - ESPN

Best. Box score. Ever.

I do feel sorry for Anthony Claggett, though. Major league debut, Yankee Stadium, national TV, chance to be a hero, and he bombs (from now on to be referred to as "pulling a Wang". Wait, on second thought...).

Jesus, that was an epic thrashing. Wang faced 12 batters and got 4 outs and Claggett faced 16 and got 5 outs.

No mention of the week Kinsler had this past week?

How about Matt Kemp showing more and more reason as to why they didn't really need Manny.....or, when is Torre going to stop batting Kemp down in the 8 hole?

Better get your brooms out boys, how SWEEP it is!

Ellsbury stole home! Fucking awesome.

Can I say "I told ya so" to everyone about Milton Bradley?

Nope, because I've been thinking that he sucks and is injury prone for a while. Sure he hits well when he's on fire. But that's only about 2 weeks out of the year. I like to think of him as either a board game or a real life example of Elijah Dukes' ceiling, temper and all.

I don't remember who it was I was talking about Bradley with in the 2008 thread, but I made the point that he had a career year at this stage in his career while playing as a DH.

He would NOT put up those numbers again, IF healthy.

The point of the debate was the fact that the best deal Abreu could get was 1 year in the 3-5mil range while the Cubs shelled out some cheese for Bradley.

that was probably me.

I've been wrong before.. but hey.. what do I care? It's the fucking cubs.

;)

Manny Ramirez reportedly tested positive for PED (performance enhancing drugs) and will be suspended 50 games by MLB

At this point in time, NOBODY that is found positive, or we find out tested positive back in the "anonymous" testing phase is going to shock me. I just assume everyone was juicing now during the late 80's through late 90's and early 2000's. As much as it pains me to say it, I don't think anyone will shock me anymore.

I stopped being shocked by that a few years ago. Now I'm just disappointed.

This is really going to hurt the Bums.

it's disappointing to me as well.. I'm still a Manny fan even though he completely fucked over my Sox.

They did not find steroids or HGH. So what was it? They found a "banned substance" - not specifically performance enhancing. Manny claims it is from medication given to him by a doctor. I'm waiting for the whole story to come out. There are some things on the "banned substance" list that are narcotics and such... have nothing to do with enhancing performance. The 50 games are not arbitrary - it is the penalty listed for the offense of having these substances in your blood.

In the meantime, I am hoping that the ban will be reduced or rescinded if the substance is found to be rather benign.

Damn.

The rumor I heard was that it's an erectile dysfunction treatment, but that tends to be used as a way to increase testosterone production after performance-enhancing drug use.

That would be interesting, because even if it could be used that way, it could be argued that it was being used for a legitimate purpose and someone (Manny :lol:) forgot to tell the right people.

On the other hand, the NFL still hasn't worked through the injunction against the suspensions of several players last season who reportedly attempted to contact both the league/union's banned-drug hotline and possibly even the league/union themselves and did not find that the drug was banned (or at least I don't think they did). So there could have been a combination of mistakes.

Honestly, though I believe he's guilty of something that deserves a suspension, and maybe something that deserves having his reputation tarnished for good.

And I'm a Manny fan.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/0...-be-fired.html

Sorry to hear that. Was just MOTY in 2007; obviously he stopped being able to manage in that time :rolleyes:

I would still be surprised if Junior ever tested or someone legit stated he juiced. I think there were quite a few non juicers but they were the "gamers" who played hard every day but didn't hit 40 homers a year. People like Kenny Lofton, David Justice, Todd Helton, Todd Walker, Omar Vizquel, Jeff Kent, and so on.

I am still a firm believer that fewer used than used.

As a DBacks fan, Bob Melvin had it coming for a long time. I hear a lot about how it isn't his fault that his players aren't performing and there is some truth to it but there are a lot of things that contributed to this. AZ had one of the best farm systems around. They were loaded with top prospects. Almost none of them have reached their potentials under Bob Melvin's management. Prospects that they gave up on have done very well under new management:

a. Scott Hairston. His best performance with AZ was a .735 OPS (extreme hitter's park) in 2004 (Brenly/Pedrique). Now in SD, he has had OPSs of .981, .781, and 1.062 with 29 HR in 530 ABs. SD is a terrible place for hitters and he has excelled there.

b. Alberto Callaspo. Melvin didn't play him and got nothing out of him. In Kansas City he has been a .300 hitter.

c. Carlos fucking Quentin. He couldn't play under Melvin's management but has been one of the best LF's in the AL.

Their choice of AJ Hinch as the new manager is VERY interesting and totally unconventional. I've heard a lot of talk about the type of manager to get things going but I think they are looking at it too traditionally. Before this, Hinch was their Director of Player Development since 2006 and their manager of minor league operations. He was the one the implemented the programs that got this group of players to the MLB level. They all excelled in the minors so maybe he can help fix what is wrong with them.

At the same time, there is a large experimental portion of this. Hinch is one of Josh Byrnes's (GM) right hand men. They will be working together to really evaluate who on the roster should be kept and who should be traded. Bynes was already doing a lot of directing to Melvin in terms of bullpen usage and other things. Now Byrnes will have a lot more control over the game management. If they went with some butt kicker like a Bowa-type Byrnes wouldn't be able to have this level of control. I also don't think that they view Hinch as a long term manager. Hinch is a future GM, he's wasting his true skill set as a coach. He's there to help evaluate and develop young players at the MLB level.

Overall, this move has a lot more long term thought to it than 2009. Byrnes is signed as GM through 2015 and this ownership group is way too cheap to fire him. He has the job security to take this type of a risk.

The team also fired the hitting coach and the pitching coach resigned.

Well, then the question would be what, if anything, he had to do with those guys. Callaspo sounds like a legitimate PT gripe, but how would Melvin have affected the way the other two players hit? Especially since other prospects, like Chris Young and Conor Jackson and Chris Snyder, did hit in the past under him.

I like that plan, and it sounds like something more teams should try.

Young has put up a consistent .750 OPS. He should be better than that.

Hairston has always been a sore spot for me. He made a bad name for himself in 2004 with a few attitude problems and he never good a good shot. He got passed up for promotions and when he was up with the team, Melvin would never play him.

Snyder and Jackson are frustrating. They have shown that they can both hit well and neither one is doing anything right now. ho knows what's going on with him.

Other contributing factors included that BoMel always fell in love with his proven veteran toys, failed to come up with lineups that made sense, and was very slow to react to a pitcher that just didn't have it on a particular day.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------

It was hGC. Steroid users take it to restart their natural testosterone production after they finish a cycle. There can be no doubt that he was taking it for performance. Bonds, Giambi and others from the BALCO scandle were using it as well.

Well, there CAN be "doubt", because it can also be used as a treatment for erectile dysfunction.

I don't think anyone's going to buy that, though...

Maybe Manny has erectile dysfunction. Maybe he tried Cialis and Viagra and only this one worked.

It maybe easier for him to accept a suspension then for everyone in the world to make fun of him for having a limp weewee.

The world may never know.

hmmm.. for us Bo'Sox fans this is all making sense. It wasn't his knee that was bothering him.. he was lazy because he was depressed about Mr. Floppy.

I'd say that fewer didn't use than did use, or I think everyone woulda been dropping 50-60 bombs like back in the day. Justice was mentioned in the Mitchell report as having bought hgh a couple of times but no one has ever said he used it, he himself denied using it.


As for Manny, I heard that what he was taking he thought it to be a substance that would help prevent him from catching swine flu, so he thought it was ok.

I have heard that manny took HCG, which is supposed to be a masking agent. According to a few things I read, it was to bring his testosterone level down to normal levels., as whatever he took gave him unnaturally high (nad unnatural) testosterone levels.

Schilling has since said "to sit here today and say I played on even one team that was totally clean would be denying reality"

It has gotten that bad.

I for one think that it will be very interesting what happens to players like Bonds and Arod when Hall of Fame voting comes around. I think they should be in. I think McGwire should be in too, as he never tested positive for any banned substance (that I recall). Arod had a positive test when it was not against the rules to use steroids. Is taking steroids inherently different throwing a spitter? Gaylord Perry is in the Hall, and one of his pitches was a spitter.

My biggest problem/complaint with the whole steroid issue is that everyone who was caught or accused of using in the past uses the whole argument that it wasn't against MLB rules at the time.

That's just trying to justify doing something illegal by pleading ignorance almost. If you were to get pulled over for speeding here in Hilliard, OH and the cops were to search your car and they found steroids, guess what, you would be in trouble. While not against MLB rules they were still illegal in the eyes of the government, so they were breaking laws in getting/using/distributing them.

They were breaking the law, just like the hundreds if not thousands of players that have taken greenies over the past , what 50-75 years?

Not saying it is right, just the way it is.

There is a lot of truth to that. In fact cheating has always been a part of baseball. For the old timers, it is almost romanticized. Doctored balls, illegal bats, stealing signs. There are numerous ways that players and teams cheated. Suddenly with steroids it became a big deal.